after giving W a couple of days to think about what has happened between us in the last 6yrs. she has left me not for the OM she left him or so she says. but because she dont know if she still "in love" w/ me. so our family has to suffer and of course she tells me this over the phone on our 5yr. wedding ann. yesterday nice.

yet i kept asking her to tell me she didn't love me anymore but she couldn't do it. i jusy can't believe she is just giving up on us and our family it's like the last 6yrs never even happened to her. i tried to get her to remember all the things we've gone threw from the birth of our 2 kids to everything else.

she said she just doesn't want to work on us anymore i told her shes just running from her problems by her moving out
and that they follow her over there. my daughter even started crying on monday cause shes gone so much for her photography job but she still isn't slowing down. "im doing it to give the kids everything" but yet she's forgetting that our kids also need her around.

i asked her what her plans are all that she knows is she wants to move out she doesn't know where she's going to go once she leaves how she sgoing to work 2 jobs her main job a night shift from 3pm-12am. so happens w/ the kis while shes at work. days and weekends shes doing onsite photography i feel so helpless w/ her she just doesn't know what shes doing i wish someone would just talk to her but shes not hearing it and of course her parents don't want to get involved evn though they've told me im hanlding it so well and that they know she wrong for all of it.

How can she give up i tried to use plan A and just listened to her but no hope also she told how she was unhappy for the last 3 or 4 months, two weeks ago. not even giving me a chance to try to fix or do anything. but yet she wasn't unhappy when we where buying a new truck a month ago or looking for our 1st house which i stop looking for once i caught her in the EA.

im so lost in a fog now even though i felt really good after last night telling her & begging her but i know this feeling isn't going to last i know i will be hurts again soon i just wish it was august already so maybe i would be felling better.

why why why why why why why why why why why why why why why
i did all she asked i did everytihing i could to get her to stay so all i can do is just leave her to her own and hope one day she wants to come back and i hope i will be willing to take her back.


so today i start my new life... here's to the future>>>>>>

I'm sure that the situation is probably looking fairly hopeless to you right about now. It's not. Look around you. There are lots of folks here who've been where you are....and they're still standing.

You'll be okay. But the first thing you have to do is pull yourself together. When you aren't in control of your emotions...your emotions are in control of YOU.

Your best bet would be do go back and read your threads again. You've had alot of good advice so far, so go ahead and assess your Plan A and see how it's going. Post any questions you have about it back here.

Remember, if you chase her, she's going to RUN. And if you trap her, she's going to FIGHT.

Is your Plan A 'opening her cage door' and making her responsible for her own choices? Is it providing for the children? Are you addressing her ENs without adderssing her "need to cheat"? If there were unresolved issues prior to the affair, are you doing what you can to address them?

There's alot of work to do. You can't afford to get bogged down by your own pain. It's okay to let yourself feel whatever it is that you feel, but you can't let it paralyze you and keep you from doing what you need to do.

Try to give yourself some finite periods of 'wallowing'. Allow yourself to let your feelings come. Put the proper names on them when they do, but try to limit the actual amount of time that you spend doing this. Build it into your schedule, like 'ME time'. If you give yourself a half-hour to go ahead and cry, or shake your fist, or whatever you need to do....you're not stifling that urge all day. You can let it out, and then get back on your game.

thanks but right now i just feels so hopeless. and so freakin hurt.i just gotta give her space and hope she comes back to me.its just really hard not trying to call her.

That's understandable of course. But you know....I think one of the really cool things about MB is that it helps people bring a little 'method' into the 'madness'. It allows us to develop a plan of action.

We can't control everything in life. But by developing a strategy, you're better able to focus control over the only thing you can....YOU and your actions.

I think there's room for giving "space" to a WS, but I also think there should be a premeditated goal for what you hope to accomplish when you do it, lest you be taken advantage of in the process.

It's one thing to 'open the cage door'. It's another thing altogether to not set any boundaries on acceptable treatment. You do have a little something to say about how people treat you, you know.

Anyway, if you have any questions about Plan A, go ahead and post them. I'm not an MB expert by any stretch of the imagination, but there are lots of folks who are very knowledgeable and can point you in the right direction.

ladyjane14

thanks again i just truely know what to do i've tried giving her space but once again i've called today trying to figure out why shes insisting on moving out and i just can't handle that on most of the post i've read they say don't let her leave the house but there is nothing i can do or say to get her to stay.

she did however tell me shes afraid of me and that completely floored me cause i have never hurt her physically
on perpose.but she says when we yell at each other she gets nerves and i told her that i would go to MC if that would help i even went as far as to set up the meeting but she doesn't wanna go.

today she said she just tierd of being married to me. so im just going to have to leave her alone and just hope she can come around soon. till then im going to focas on fixing me
so that i can get passed this and hope that she can want me back after all. i just hope she doesn't wait to long.

"i really dont want fix our marriage right now" her words not mine so all i can do is begin to heal and hope that i dont break down again and push her away evenmore.

and i know by me telling her that i hope i can find someone else who will love me and treat me right wasn't a good thing either but i was angry at the fact shes just giving up
i dont understand how a she can just give up on our M after only telling me 3weeks ago. can anyone here shed light on that.

and please post something it really hurts when you look at a post you have posted and you have 100 visits but only 3 responces. i know we are all looking for answers and help but even a "Hang in there" HELPS. even if its not my post and yes im gulity of doing the same thing but im trying also every little bit helps so thanks to all and i hop ethat one day my W and I can rekindle what we have.

its just that shes not talking to anyone and no one outside of myself is talking to her, her parents way of helping is by not helping hence the reason shes just sticking her head in the ground and hoping it'll fix itself or just go away.
what kinda of crap is that not to mentention i told her about MB she came on for like 5 mins. and then emailed me telling me that website is only for people who have been cheating for along time where as her mother came here as well and liked it but did she tell her, nope. i believe in order for us to work it can't just be me willing to fix things it takes (2) and shes not willing. i've tried the
listenen and repeating what shes said. but to me it's yet to do anything

Sorry about the lack of response. There seems to be some big bruhaha here today on a couple of other threads which is sapping alot of energy.

I've got to fulfill a few ENs for my family...dinner and homework...stuff like that. Then I want to review all your posts again before I post back. I can't 'MB' right off the top of my head like some of these other good folks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Hopefully, you'll get some experts to have a look before I get back. In the meantime, tell us about your view of Plan A, okay?

saenz, so sorry you are not getting many responses today. I think possibly for the sake of your own sanity and to attract your WW back you might want to try the 180. I have posted it below for you.

saenz, have you fully exposed the A? Are you certain she is in NC? What have you done to make changes in yourself, to fill her top EN's?

Hey there,
I know you are hurting. The pain seems unbearable at times.

Is counseling an option for you? If so, even individual conseling might be a good thing for you right now.

If money is an issue, do you have a pastor you could talk to?

If she moved out, I would wonder if she was really in no contact.

Hang in there

Saenz,

What's up with the kids? Is she planning on abandoning them with you? Does she want to take them with her?

Have you consulted an attorney? It's just wise to prepare for the worst, on the backside, while you fight for your marriage. You've got to protect your kids and your finances. Your WW may be cleaning you out as we speak or racking up huge debt on joint credit cards. Have you got a handle on your finances?

One thing caught my eye. WW said she was "scared" of you...assuming you have never been violent, could she be setting you up for a fake charge of spousal abuse so she could get YOU kicked out of the marital home and she gets custody of the kids? Be careful...THIS HAS HAPPENED.

Moving out usually equals affair in full swing. She wants space to "try on" her new relationship before deciding what she's gonna do. It's a common ploy, just so you know. Get your snooping gear in order...purchase a mini Voice Activated Digital recorder...hide it around the house or in her car and catch her conversation with an OM or a friend. You'll likely get the intel you need to bust her and then deal with the truth, the full truth.

Chances are you will save your marriage. The statistices bear that out. You'll likely feel like it's over 2 or 3 times by then but chances are as long as YOU decide to fight you will prevail. Just remember, you will make it, with or without your wife, you will make it.

Mr. Wondering

faithful, thanks for that post i put it in my head that i need to leave her alone yesterday, however when i picked up my kids from my brother's which is what has been the norm for the past 2yrs. anyhow my 2 SC where alittle sad and i asked them what was wrong they said they didn't wanna move away from me into another house which blew me away cause they've never been affectionate toward me they for the first time told me they loved me. i was like wow wow wow

i told them that they needed to let her know how they felt
cause she doesn't know. and of course when she came to pick them up last night @ midnight i told her what they said to me hoping she would respond in a good way but all i got was a "good" so i began to beg again like a dumb a**.

so here i am again after leaving the office i was i gun-ho
about leaving her alone and moving on and then they drop that wonderfull bomb on me. but oh well.

mr.wonder:
no we are keeping the kids in there same normal day in day out life that they are used to. and no shes not wiping me out we have the same amount of money in the bank as i did 3 weeks ago. & we dont have any credit cards together. and the home isn't ours it belongs to my parents its there rental prop.

ladyjane:
i dont even know how to begin to re-apply plan A shes going out of town on sun-tues. and shes been staying @ her parents house since sun i just wanna give her some space and like faithful said work on me and maybe she will wake up to see whats she has left.

thanks to all of you for listening to me wah,wah, and helping me i hope i can save my marriage if not then i'll have learned how to keep a relationship going stong.

Sorry I can't give much advise <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How old are your kids?
I ask this because she went to pick them up midnight? in your house?
She's not living with you anymore and taking the kids?

In my humble opinion I believe they are looking for you to give them the support they feel they need.

Keep posting, this is a great site and there's really very good people here giving very good advice.

I truly wish all the best.

saenz...i don't have much to offer in the way of advice. I am in the throes of the same crap as you. my w hasn't moved out...but she is playing with my head big time and has talked about splitting...she needs space, blah blah blah...it is all so typical - everyone posts the same thing. Maybe 5 yrs is a turning point for some people - its not fresh and new anymore and they just don't have the maturity and commitment to know how to love beyond the hormone stage.

Anyway...find strength in yourself and don't let her bring you down...she wants you to be desperate and needy so she can use it against you....telling you your not strong enough, your a wimp, your not who she thought she married, etc...

just block it out...find a point in the room to focus on and smile and block it out. Don't let her see you sad ever again...she doesn't deserve to see your pain.

take care of business...$$$ and kids - make sure you aren't going to get taken.

if she comes back it will be up to you whether or not you want her.

good luck and be strong...

lost:
my SK are 10yrs girl, 9yr boy, & our 2 boys are 4 & 3.
and yeah she picks them at midnight cause she goes in at 3pm till 11:30pm. cause i have to get up @ 5am to go to work i work an hour & 1/2, from home. not to mention i drive a signle cab truck where i cant fit all 4 kids in the front.so will start to come and get them when shes going home. and when she finds her own place its going to be near me so that the kids can still go to the same school.

You're right. You can't MAKE her stay. As a parent to your children though, you do have rights in the decision of where they live. It's usually best that they stay in the marital home. You've also got a say in the marital assets, so you might want to see an attorney about these issues.


I'm curious as to what "on purpose" means. While I agree with Mr. Wondering that there are often false accusations of abuse when a WS leaves the marriage...if there's any legitimacy in your wife's fear, you need to address that ASAP.

There's either one of two things at work in your wife's desire to separate. Either she has broken off contact with the OM or she hasn't. If she hasn't...then she's most likely using this "space" to consider ending her marriage and moving on with OM. But if she has indeed ended the affair.....then she's watching you to see what you'll do next. She's wondering if you really can make the changes that you've promised, and how long it will actually last if you do.

Either way, I think that IC (individual counseling) will help you. If the affair is ongoing, I think you could use the emotional support you'll find in counseling. And if it's not, you can certainly use whatever help you find in improving communications with your wife. What your WW will see...is YOU addressing one of her concerns. This is one of the things you can do to actively work on "fixing" whatever deficits you might have brought to the relationship from before.


You know, an EA is an emotional affair. I'm not going to excuse anybody for getting involved in an inappropriate relationship. That's a choice made by the WS, and the BS shouldn't take the blame for that poor choice. But after having worked through my husband's EA...I can tell you that a WS has some serious issues going on.

In my husband's case, he had hit the midlife and was suffering from some depression in the transition. He was suffering from chronic physical pain from a previous injury, and was having trouble doing the things that he likes to do.

He felt [/i]emotionally disconnected[/i] in the marriage. He honestly believed that I didn't love him anymore! He felt hopeless that the situation would EVER improve.

Our marriage had become emotionally dead. He felt unsupported in it, largely because our intimate relationship was unfulfilling to him. Like so many women, with only so much time in a day, and too many things to do...my energy ship was SINKING. My libido was one of the first things to go 'over the side' like so much ballast. It's not that our relationship had become a nonsexual one, it's just that it had become a chore for me, one more thing on my 'to do' list. And this went on for ten years of our twenty year marriage. Imagine the level of rejection he must have felt. His self-esteem had hit rock bottom.

And you might also imagine how unpleasant he had become to deal with. He was an angry, unfulfilled man, and so conflict avoider that I am...I avoided him whenever possible.

When I first found out about the EA, I gave in to my knee-jerk reaction and DEMANDED a divorce. I didn't even want to talk about it. I had caught him about a week before he would've taken the affair to the next level, and the evidence of his wrong-doings was UGLY. In fact, I had already seen a lawyer before I even confronted him. It didn't even occur to me that I should "work on the marriage".

But you know, in my confrontation with my husband on D-Day, I was also confronted with something. My husband was in terrible emotional pain. He felt abandoned, he felt unloved and unlovable. And I was the one who had vowed to love and comfort him all of his life! I hadn't done my job.

Really, you can't control anything that anybody else does. The only thing you CAN control is you. So, I resolved to work on ME, to take personal responsibility for whatever I brought to the table in the relationship. This had a marvelous side-benefit in that I no longer felt victimized by my situation. In taking my share of the responsibility, and assiduously avoiding taking on my husband's share...I found myself back in the driver's seat of MY life.

This works wonderfully for identifying and addressing your partner's ENs too. Because when you stop looking at what your spouse is doing...you can FOCUS on what you're doing. You can be honest with yourself and ask yourself..."did I really do my share?" And when you find the answer is 'no', you can then forgive yourself and resolve to do a better job.

When you let go of victimization, your circumstances are better clarified. Alot of the emotional clutter that was filtering your view is gone. You can identify your lovebusters better because you aren't as emotionally reactive.

Anyway, I know you're probably concerned that she doesn't love you anymore, and even though my post is getting long I want to assure you that it's not necessarily true.

Before my husband's EA, I couldn't feel my love for him anymore. And he couldn't feel his love for me either. In fact, we were both rather SHOCKED to find out that it was still there. It was one of those things that people describe as 'I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you'. I knew I loved my husband, but I couldn't FEEL it. Worse yet, neither could he!

I think what happens sometimes is that the love just gets buried. Years of resentment pile up on top of it like a thick layer of crud. When you're feeling angry or resentful for a long time, how are you going to FEEL such a tender emotion as love?

What I found out in my situation is that after the "crud" was cleaned off, both my husband and I were surprised to find that we were still very MUCH in love with each other. The tool for cleaning off the crud though is MUTUAL forgiveness. And it might take awhile before you can get there. You have some work to do. Your WWs lovebank appears to be EMPTY.

I think it would be wise for you to work on identifying and fulfilling as many ENs as you can. You'll want to focus on the issues that were going on before your wife's EA. The most important deficits will be found there.

You need not support ENs that compromise the marriage though. In other words, you don't actively help your wife to leave you. For example, if she needs money to set up housekeeping outside the marital home, you assure her that she's welcome to come back, but you aren't going to help her destroy the family dynamic.

Faithful Follower gave you a list of 180's. You don't want to be accused of 'game-playing', but this list can REALLY help you to avoid applying pressure. You don't want to be following your wife around talking about the relationship all the time. Let her come to YOU for big relationship talk. Meantime, be as attractive as possible to her. Allow your interactions to be positive ones. You want her to WANT to spend time with you.

You needn't be dishonest regarding your feelings. You can tell her how you feel when the subject comes up....just try to let her be the one to bring it up whenever possible. Imagine that you're trying to get a little songbird to eat from your hand. It's skittish, and if you come on too strong....it's going to fly away.

If you're not making progress in a couple of weeks, you might need to up the ante. But you don't have to cross that bridge until you get to it.

completely:
thanks for those words. yeah she has never been in a long turn relationship besides her 2 yrs w/ her exhusband/highschoolsweet. every other relationship she has told me never lasted more than 6 months. so our 6 yrs must be like out there for her. i know she doesn't deserve me and that i shouldn't be crying over her but here i am.

so your W hasn't had an A on you yet shes just going threw the emotions of a long time marriage i would say to you to try to get alone somewhere w/ her and just be adults.good luck to you as well and i hope you dont have to go threw what i'm going threw.

thanks

dude...you should totally cry if your feeling it - just try try try to not let her see it...it really is key for you to come across like you just don't need her - they thrive on your pain - it is like gas in the "i'm leaving you tank." - this is really important for your dignity and for her to see you as the man she would want.

The a with my w if questionable...something is up - i think currently it is a EA - but i am not sure. so i keep on plan a'ing in hopes it works. sometimes i think it is but - she still won't touch me - or tell me she loves me so i don't know.

Remember Your Dignity...

yeah good luck i found out abour her EA bying putting a spyware program on the computer which records everthing that goes on the computer.

its funny cause when i kicked her out the first time she was begging me to come back pleading w/ and willing to do anything to fix this now 3 weeks later she just done and now im the trying to fix and going threw all the emotions.
go figure.

lady j thanks for those words i just dont know ho wto apply plan A anymore nor if i want too im so tierd of trying right now and confused i know she still loves me even though she says shes not "in love" anymore half my body is saying let her go, she will see whats she's missing.

all i do know is if i dont call her she wont call me. which at this time sucks i've never been in this position all i keep thinking is: call her, call her, and i know i need to just leave her alone but im still in such a cloud.

how do i use plan A if shes not living w/ me and is going out of town sun-tues. or should i just suck it up and leave her alone no matter how long until she calls me. also would it be wise for me to send her flowers to the location where shes going to be at or just leave her alone. once again how do i use PLAN A if shes going to be so far away. not to mention i've read and read on plan A but i must not be grasping it well enough could you put it in "layman's terms"
cause maybe im just applying it all wrong.

thanks for your post i just dont know what to do except to let her move out cause she just dont wanna talk about us right now.

ALSO HER LITTLE BROTHER PASSED AWAY 3YRS. AGO AND TODAY IS his birthday should i call her and see if shes doing ok and just that. you think it'll help.

Saenz, I am very sorry you find yourself in this situation many of us have been there and we know how desperate it is for you.

Some good news is that you are in the right place here at MB to begin to recover your life and your relationship.

* Your instinct as a BS is to be angry, indignant, sad, fearful, reactionary etc and no-one could blame you. However actions supporting these emotions will REINFORCE the fantasy in your WS warped mind that you are a worse bet as a life partner than the OP and that the A was justified.

* You may feel 'better' by venting, doing the vengeance dance etc, but this will almost certainly fatally break your relationship.

* Plan A is a carefully calculated response to the fact of an affair that recognises the strengths and weaknesses of the BS position at this time, and who wants to save their M. It is NOT instinctive, in fact it is counter-intuitive, but it works if adhered to. To use MaddyKs analogy :scratching poison ivy rash feels SO GOOD but causes nothing but grief. Instinct does not always help in complex situations.

* FACT a BS cannot directly stop an affair unless they kill or kidnap one or both infidels, and thats not usually recommended by MC

* FACT NEITHER is a BS as helpless as they think they are, and has an armoury of weapons to use. Plan A bundles these for use in a proven strategy.

* Plan A recognises the uncomfortable reality that although the BS is IN NO WAY responsible for the A and that an A is NEVER JUSTIFIED or OK the BS HAS contributed to the marital environment being ripe for an A. This is a major thing to choke down for most BS ( it was for me!) , but its also a major enabler to recovery. Once you know what broke in YOU you can start fixing it.

* Using tools such as exposure the affairs bindings can be exposed to the light. Typically A's only make sense in a by-the-hour highway motel for two hours at a time when only the lying infidels listen to each others fog drivel and 'lets pretend' sex. Exposure to OPs significant other, and carefully targeted family and friends and colleagues forces this shaky, sex-justfying bag of fluff to the scrutiny of the real world. In MOST cases, the bindings disappear like vampires in the sun leaving the infidels 'love affair' looking like the tawdry, cowardly alternative to fixing a flagging marriage that it truly is.
And YES exposing is counter intuitive too, but it WORKS !! see now ?

* So when the A is exposed as a shabby thing, Plan A also makes sure that you, the BS have ALREADY and PROACTIVELY recognised the failings in your behaviour and demeanour that led to the marriage flagging and made a start at fixing them. You have also patently disarmed your WS by not being violent, disrespectful, unforgiving nor any of the other things that they expected and FEARED you would be. In fact you raised your game SIGNIFICANTLY as spouse material and they begin to notice it, really.

* WSs fear that with the death of the A, they have no safe place to go, not the OP and certainly not home to face the judgment and wrath of the BS they have hurt do much....except the BS has done everything possible to provide a place of calm safety for the WS to return to. My own FWW thought it was a trick! She couldn't believe the loving and non-hudgmental "nest" I'd made for her when she felt she deserved it so little...through Plan A I'm a better Dad than I've been in years, a better listener and more thoughtful of my FWWs needs. Plus MUCH slimmer, fitter and more buff ( GgrrrrOOOWWWLLLLL ! )

* SOME A's bindings are stronger than others and SOME WSs find it harder than others to return home, so plan A may not always work at killing the A and providing a sanctuary for the WS to recover in. Thats when plan B kicks in. Plan B REMOVES the sanctuary , love , forgiveness and support so carefully built and demonstrated in PLAN A from the WS. You do a good plan A and you will be REALLY missed, while OM looks everyday more like the unreliable, lying betrayers they always are.

* See how it works ? By choosing to lay down your righteous indignation in plan A you are in NO WAY a doormat any more than spying for the Allies made brave intelligence folks in WW2 Nazis. You are bravely and deliberately overruling your primal instinct in support of the marriage God gave you and you gave to God and each other.

* STUDY(not just read) SAA, HN/HN , this site, the old heads stories and become aware of the dynamics of affairs. Deconstruct your own situation and apply the principles to it. Knowledge is power. Understand that affairs are JUST LIKE medical conditions, the symptoms, prognosis and cure are all utterly predictable in most cases. Your sitch feels unique BUT IT AIN'T ! THIS STUFF HAS WORKED FOR THOUSANDS OF COUPLES IN EXACTLY YOUR SITCH !

* Finally I have said before that Plan A is a heroes gig and I still think so. For a 'silverback' like me the easy way is to go crashing around hitting people , suing people and making lives bad. Instinct isn't bravery.

Bravery is doing what is needed, however uncomfortable, frightening and counter-instuitive to rebuild a stable loving platform for all involved in the mess of an affair.

Even if Plan A and Plan B doesn't recover your M , it will leave you a much more "examined" person able to move on in life and not repeat the errors that contributed to the problems in the M.


I hope I have helped explain my take on Plan A. And to close, Plan A has worked UP THE WAZOO for us so far so I'm not talking theory.