To any of you who may have seen my turmoil over the ten months, my marriage I think is over. In brief, so you know, I love my wife with all my heart. She is having an affair. She is angry and spiteful with me because I have chosen to record some phone conversations because her weekly excuse of "I'm going over there to break it off!" wasn't holding water any more. What I recorded broke my heart even worse. I felt the need to be honest with her and let her know what I had heard. But she didn't seem sorry that she did it, just angry that I had recorded her conversations. She says that I give her no privacy. Which is and isn't true. I tape recorded her on the phone this week, 3 months after I promised I wouldn't do that again her again. Prior to that, I didn't tape anything, and her relationship went on and on. (I had made the promise thinking it was short term because she had promised me she would end the relationship if I stopped recording).<P>And her response when I ask questions is "Well, you've been bugging me, listen to your tapes!". Well, those tapes, 2 hours worth of misc. calls were enough to show emphatically that not only was she not ending her relationship with him, despite a small disagreement about a hickey he gave her two days ago that she was trying to hide from me.<P>So I approached her with this information, and the fact that I had told my best friend Greg about it and that he just wished us the best. Over the past few months, as our marriage has fallen apart, I have told a few people. I tried to get her mother to help, instead, her mother believes I'm lying, that I'm a bad person, and dangerous. I told her sister at the same time as her mother and I have told a few close friends, during times when I thought the marriage is already over. My wife says I have a big mouth and when I told her mother and sister, that settled that she would not be able to reconcile with me.<P>I don't know if this is an excuse or not, but I didn't tell anyone other than one dear friend who lives hundreds of miles away during the first six months.<P>Then I couldn't seem to help myself. I am hurting. But the one I care about doesn't seem to care.<P><BR>

I am responding to this not because I have any great insight but because I believe everyone deserves some response before they slip off the chart, to let you know that I read your post and have added yet one more soul to my prayer list.

John, I went thru the same thing. She did the exact same things that your W did. Her family was not only no help, but were helping her hide the fact. THe only thing that worked for me at this point was to file for divorce and get control of MY life. Waiting for her is fruitless because she is waiting for him(OM). Om isin't going to do anything since he has it good right now <BR>When you file it puts a timeline in place for the desolving of the marriage. Reality sets in when assets and other parts of the marriage are divided up. This puts the burden on her relationship with the OM to find out what his real intentions are. If he has no intention of ever marrying her, she will be forced to look at that possibility along with all of the other negatives that come with divorce. You also need to be ready to consider the consequences of your actions too. When I did mine, I was convinced that the marriage was over and there was nothing more to do. Even though I still loved her as I loved no other, but I was not going to remain where I was not wanted. She was using me while she was waiting for the OM to work out his marriage. <BR>I had tio accept these consequences even though I hated them. <BR>As it turns out, she did come back to me and things are working out. <BR>Take care.<BR>THanks for bringing this to the top Paul.

Fighter: I see your reponse about filing and I'm glad that worked for you. But what if she did not come back and accepted the divorce, not because she wanted it but because she was just as hopeless as you? I think I worry and dwell too much on what she might be thinking or feeling and not enough about myself. Maybe I'm gutless

Wow John, you sound just like I did. I taped my wife as well (about three times). Unfortunately, what I heard is forever emblazoned in my memory. Like so many others have said to and before me, once you've made (conclusive) discovery, snooping no longer helps. The best you can do is protect your own emotions. Your W is in the deep denial/fantasy stage. Its your choice at this point. Plan A or Plan B. Further discovery only acts as a big LB. Every time you present more "evidence" you only drive your W's behavior deeper underground. She will only become more expert at lying to you and hiding her behavior. Remember, the only person you can change...is your self. Find out where your slipping on meeting her needs. And meet them.<P>MB principles dictate that the reason people have affairs and not completely end a married relationship from the start, is because the betrayer (I hate that word) is getting their needs met only partially by the spouse and the OP. You can totally withdraw and wait for the OP to crash and burn (which could take 6 months to two years), or you can "up the ante" and meet the needs the OP is currently meeting. But first you have to find out what they are.

fighter - Hey bro, glad to see you've come out of "retirement" and are posting again! As usual, I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say. My situation is similar to yours and John's too, I think, except my W and I haven't quite gotten to the stages that either you guys are at. (You're furthest along, and where you are is where I want to be too.) But we're getting there, I think. Which is partly why I'm interested in how your situations are developing. I did take your advice and confronted W with the fact that I'd seen her with the OM. Boy, what a change THAT'S made in our relationship! You could knock me over with a feather! She still denies she's having an affair, but she sure as hell treats me a lot nicer now, which I take as confirmation that I'm right.<P>John - I have to say, I think it was a mistake to inform other family members (especially HERS) and friends about what you know of your W's affair. But what's done is done. Are you and your W currently involved in any kind of couples counseling? I think that might at least offer some hope for helping her work through this issue. And I think fighter may be right too. You may need to give her some kind of deadline for breaking off the affair. I know this is really hard to do because of the strength of your love for her. (Boy, do I know how THAT feels and how much hurt you're going through because of her betrayal!) But it sounds like all her OM wants is the goodies and probably isn't looking for any real committed relationship with your W.<P>I think something similar is going on with my W's OM and her - why would he WANT her to leave the marriage and live with him? He's getting the goodies now while I pay the bills. What possible motive could he have for changing the situation? When you think about it, this is actually a strong point in our favor, because our W's probably aren't going to leave the marriage if there's no other committed relationship waiting for them when they leave. And setting a deadline will force your W to confront the OM about his intentions, which could result in them breaking up and her returning to you the way fighter's W did to him.<P>--Wex

I still am not convinced of the merit in this. I mentioned after my last talk with my W that if she wanted to we would go ahead and file for the divorce. I saw the tears well up in her eyes and she just nodded her head and said "If you think it's best to". Tears welled up in my heart although I did not let them reach my eyes. I haven't done it yet, but I feel if I did she would sign and be done. It might hurt hurt and me tremendously but I think she would do it.

john - I too told both her and my entire family when I learned of W's infidelity. My in-laws really like me so they immediately rallied around me. In effect, W has completely isolated herself from her entire family (she used to be real close to them). Even though some would argue that this is a lovebuster (none of her family knew before I teld them), I feel that in the long run it will work to my advantage. Now ai am getting all the love, support and face time with her family...she is getting nothing from them (self imposed). I've got to believe that deep down inside whe KNOWS what she is doing is wrong and is ashamed to confront her family.<P>Also Paul and john - DON'T FILE FOR DIVORCE UNLESS YOU INTEND TO CARRY IT OUT!! Kinda like the old addage - don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to pull the trigger.

Dear Fighter,<P>Thank you for your response. At this point, I am putting out no further hope that her feelings will change. When presented with the evidence of my discovered evidence, she was not apologetic or sorry. She was angry that I had caught her and tried to say she had been in the process of breaking up with him. Just because he had placed a hickey on her neck and they had an argument, she wanted me to think that they were going to break up. How many times opportunities have come up ideal for break up before I can't tell you...She has never followed thru. But Fighter, this guy does not know I am still married to her. He thinks we're divorced, in fact, in the tape, he thinks I'm signing over our house this weekend as part of the final divorce settlement. He doesn't know the whole story...she has built a fantasy for him including her age...she told him she's 31 when she's actually almost 37. She looks 31.<P>The other OM talks in code to her. I don't know what it means. She swears up and down that he is just a friend. But my daughter, 6, thinks that he is her boyfriend and said as much to us last night during the discussion when I was asked who all knew, and she asked about a specific family friend. I told her that the family friend had suspicions because of what my daughter had told her and that she had told my friend. She didn't believe me and called my daughter in and asked and after being promised she wouldn't get in trouble, she admitted she thought that the person in question was a "boyfriend boyfriend" not just a "boy" "friend".<P>Wex, you have always replied to me and I have been selfish or unobservant and haven't seen your own posts. I apologize for that.<P>Anyway, once I told her that I had direct evidence that her relationship was ongoing and not ending and the people who finally knew after 10+ months...she said she was confused but wanted to leave me for at least two months..but she want's me to move out due to lack of finances.<P>I don't think I should move out. What do you all think?<BR>

John - Agree, I don't think you should move out. If she wants to go, it's up to HER to go. I think you should make that very clear to her. Again, in my own case, when we've discussed the possibility, I've told my W that I have no intention of ever leaving. If she wants to split, she's got to be the one to go.<P>--Wex

John and Paul, Gutless? I doubt it. A good argument could be made that it would be gutless to file. I don't know how you guys put up with the persistant heartbreak.<BR>To file or not file, that is the question. For me, I was convinced that there was nothing more to be done. There was no doubt in my mind of what her intentions were. She had been threatening me with arrest without basis(it can be done in this state) and I was concerned about her moving the kids and draining the accounts. Filing stopped it. There was some major Lovebusting from her to contend with after I did it because it limited her.<BR>You have to decide what is right for you in your situation. Before filing, however you should tell the OM the truth. Everything including her real age. No anger, just the facts. This too is a major lovebuster but it puts reality into their relationship that will come anyway. OM might dump her when he finds out so why prolong it?<BR>It sickens me to see that a 6yr old child is involved. All the more reason to take bold steps in putting the truth out there. Children should be kept as far from our messes as possible.<BR>Don't leave the house. Stay there with your daughter. If she's so dead set on leaving, there is the door. <BR>Two OMs ? ! Ugh.<BR>Wex, I'm glad to see that things are getting better.