I did, for one.

(I have not yet read the other responses on this thread.)

My reasoning follows:

I lost my 8 1/2 year old son in August 1999 after a 5 1/2 year battle with neuroblastoma. This included 2 bone marrow transplants and countless other day to day steps and continuous anxiety.

My wife, other son and I, our immediate family, friends and neighbors, and our community all pulled together in the same direction to do everything we could to beat the disease. Everything. Strangers and co-workers donated hundreds of units of whole blood and platelets. One co-worker, with my employer's approval, spent several hours a day coordinating the schedule of platelet donations at the hospital when platelet needs were acute. My wife and I set a new standard in Children's Hospital DC for parenting care and active participation for children undergoing BMTs. They re-wrote the book after watching us.

In the end, we all lost the battle. I am not ashamed to say that when he finally died, I felt a sense of relief. It was over. No more pain, no more needle sticks, no more wondering what would happen. I was guilt free in that I was positive we did all that we possibly could do to save him. Further, through my research and overall knowledge gained about his disease as we battled it, I fully understood why he contracted it in the first place and why he died. I could reason it all out. I didn't like it and it wasn't fair, but I understood it.

Within months of his death, my wife sought comfort with OM. A friend, blood donor and pallbearer for my deceased son. Upon my and OMW's discovery of the affair - and the infidels adamant denials - I thought my world was ending. I went into deep depression and lost 25 pounds on the infidelity diet - and I am NOT a big man. Not only was I betrayed by my wife and friend, my wife's family chose NOT to get involved. After watching me struggle equally with my wife against the disease, seeing first hand the love and devotion I demonstrated to my family, they declared me selfish for not allowing WS to grieve the only way she knew how. My friend OM and devout Catholic was just showing his true value as a human.

This was far, far, worse than my son's death.

The biggest reason this was worse was because it involved choices. People were choosing to break up families. People were choosing to betray. People were accepting the preventable death of two families, including four surviving children, after fighting so valiantly for the life of one against an unpreventable disease.

Unlike my son's death, I could not reason this out. I could not understand it. I never will.

But in reaction to the infidelity, I learned from my experience with my son. I did everything possible to save my family. I made no choices that contributed to its end. As a result, similar to losing my son, I ended up guilt free. This has permitted me to establish a "new" life and find a new love with the most amazing woman on the planet.

The infidels married five months after my divorce, yet still deny an affair. OM's two older children disowned him, so he is "buying" my surviving son's love with promises to fund his college career - since my finances were devastated by medical bills and divorce.

When I look in the mirror everyday, I am not ashamed to be a bitter BS. I dare anyone to say I shouldn't be. Go ahead, make my day.

My experience does not mean that the loss of anyone else's loved one will be greater or lesser than any other loss they may endure.

WAT

edit: believer, I am sorry for your pain. I feel it, we all feel it with you.

Believer- I am so sorry for the inminent passing of your dad. It seems you feel very close to him . It must be so hard to lose a parent,no matter what age! Both my parents are still alive, thank God, but that day of losing one of them is fast approaching,since they are very old! You are a very good woman, and I am sure God will give you the strenght to go thru this loss.

Myrta

I'm with you believer. I would rather have my wife have an affair and leave me than to have my son die. While my wife’s infidelity would be a grave blow to me . . . I would probably survive. The death of my son would probably put me in my grave. I’m not trying to be melodramatic, but I just don't think I would be strong enough to get past that one. I just don’t think the two situations are comparable. The marriage relationship may be able to be mended. The death of a child is final and forever.

I can understand how infidelity could be worse that the death of a parent . . . parents are supposed to die and spouse's aren't supposed to commit adultery. If parents have had a full life, if they are aged and die naturally, that is just part of the cycle of birth and death. If someone broke into their home and stomped them to death, well that is a different situation and I think much harder to deal with.

I sorry for what your experiencing believer. I wish you peace.

Believer,

I've got my arms around you right now.

I'm so sorry.

- Kimmy

I think one of the reasons that many folks find infidelity to be as - or more - painful as the death of a loved one is because infidelity is done on purpose. Both are acutely traumatic, but the purposefulness of infidelity adds another component. The death of a loved one is just the opposite. My 18 yr old son was killed in a car accident; WAT's boy died of a disease. And notice that the folks who have lost children do find it very comparable. I sure do. And I have been through both. The affair and divorce was MORE painful than the death of my boy in the first year, but the two events differ in the long term.

((((((((believer)))))))))

I have said that infidelity is worse... and for only one reason: Infidelity is a selfish CHOICE... death is not.

But I completely understand what you're saying... from a human perspective, death is a forever-loss, and one that feels so final. I find solice in believing that I will one day see my dear family in heaven, and some days it's the only thing that gets me through...

From Penalty Kill

Believer, I am very sorry for what you are going through. Death, whatever the circumstances, is heartwrenching.

My H and I have had this discussion, and we both agree that to lose one of our children would be a fate worse than anything we could imagine, including infidelity. That being said, everyone's outlook is different, and I respect that. I've dealt with a lot of pain in my life from a very young age, courtesy of my parents, while my H had a much more conventional upbringing with better parents.

He does say that discovery of my A was the most traumatic experience he has undergone, but he is recovering, and on his better days considers himself to be fortunate. His sister lost her H a year ago. Her eulogy was one of the most moving speeches I have ever heard; they were high school sweethearts. One week after he died she discovered at least ten years of infidelity on his part - prostitutes. She had suspicions, but this was confirmation.

I am not going to ask her which pain is worse, but I know that she feels quite bitter at this point, and I can certainly understand why. The discovery of her H's activities has colored her view of her 28 year marriage. The tragedy is that her H will never have a second chance to lead a better life. There will always be a huge blot on her memory of him and their time together.

I have to be thankful that I do have a second chance.

{{{{Believer}}}}

I think the two experiences, death and infidelity are very different kinds of losses. An apples and oranges kind of thing. Both painful, but in different ways.

I was touched by many of the responses on this thread...especially brought to tears by B0bPure's post about his dad.

I imagine the loss of a child would be much different from the loss of a parent. I lost both my parents years ago. I still have times when I feel their presense or sense they know... I miss them, but thus is life...with the inevidability of death for all of us. My mom died at an age a year younger than myself. I was glad to make it past this last year.

It is part of the continuim of life to experience the last days with our loved ones....to hold their hand or be close and pray with and for them as they pass.

Believer,

For me, my F's sudden death was worse...although I was devastated by both events..

I won't be able to see my F again in this life and so have needed to talk to him...to understand more about manhood and my H's infidelity....

No one can replace him..but there is an option of another husband...

God Bless you as you go through this difficult time...

You are blessed to be able to say your goodbyes to each other...I didn't have that chance...

Believer,

I just lost my mother on 3/30 her 73rd birthday, so the feelings are still raw. She was sick with heart trouble most of her life. At 43 she had the first of 3 open heart surgeries, the first and second being valve replacements due to damage caused by rheumatic fever as a child and the last a bypass due to all the previous surgery. She was also a smoker and suffered from emphesema the last few years requiring oxygen and respitory therapy. We had many emergency visits to the hospital over the years due to congestive heart failure (we called them tuneups) which caused a great deal of anxiety for me, my sisters and father. My mom never got anxious and only worried about us
during these times, we did enough worring for her I guess.
I was very lucky that my employment situation changed about 5 years ago and it allowed me the time to see her at least once a week and during that past few months 2 or 3 times a week. My father was the main care giver over the years and he would not let me or my sisters help much. He was taking care of her physical needs and I made my visits about intellectual stimulation. She was mentally sharp right up to the day she passed and loved talking about all kinds of topics. My family is not very open with our emotions (old german background I guess) and rarely displayed our feelings
except in extordinary situations. About 6 years ago this all changed for me as a result of the affair that my wife had. I began telling my family (Mom, Dad, Sisters, Children ) that I loved them. It felt good. Every time I visited my mom over the past 6 years I told her I loved her and she responded in kind. It was a wonderful gift for me to hear these words from her. My dad is still a little reserved in this respect but he is now comfortable with my displays of affection for him. I guess what I am trying to say is to be open and honest with your feelings regarding your Dad, see him when you feel you or he needs a visit. I have no regrets regarding my moms life in that everything that needed to be said and done, was. There is nothing that I wish I had done differently for her. Her passing was nothing at all as I had imagined. She passed at home with her family present. There were no emergency procedures, or struggling to breathe, just quiet and peace. She left us with dignity and grace, more than I could ever have hoped for. It actually was a very settling moment for me and washed much of the fear of losing her away.

Infidelity and a loved one dying cannot be compared. Do not get me wrong, both hurt tremendously but in different ways.
The feeling of betrayal is something that makes you question who, what and where you are, a pain so deep and negative it makes you question your entire life. The pain of loosing a loved one are based in positive feelings related to memories of your relationship with that person. It is a pain that will make you smile and cry with satisfaction all at the same time. For me, there is only the phantom fear/anxiety that persists (getting better) due to the heightened state of worry about her when she was alive.

I hope this helps you. The only advice I can offer is to spend as much time as you can with your dad and discuss everything you have always wanted to discuss with him. I am sure he wants the same thing. My mom loved to discuss things in her past that she had kept close to herself. Some were good stories and some were frightening but all were her sharing herself with me. Turns out that most if not all of these discussions were also revealed to others that were close to her. The idea is that they were important to her to discuss and for us to just listen. The goal for you should be "no regrets" once your dad passes.

Well the point isn't which one we would choose . No one would chose to have someone die rather than to go through infidelity, regardless of which is more painful.

Believer, my best wishes go with you at this difficult time. It's wonderful to see all the support you are getting on this thread.

But that's the point, isn't it? Or that's part of the point. When you go through a bereavement, everyone knows you are feeling rotten, and supports you. Nobody tells you to put on a red dress and go to a discotheque while you are still grieving. No one tells you the death was your fault. No one tells you when and how to get over it.

For the most part, the social support during infidelity is uneven, and in some cases, nonexistent. We not only go through the betrayal of a spouse, but the betrayal of friends and family. It's one unending assault. No one ever apologizes -- so the wounds remain open. There is no "closure" -- though one does, eventually, move on. There is no sweetness of memory mixed with the pain of loss.

Believer,

You are in my neck of the woods. Do you need any help? Like with moving stuff?

With prayers for you and your family,

I don't think the comparrison was made to imply one loss hurts more than another ... but that one loss has a much clearer path for grieving the loss.

When a loved one dies ... there are others to support you in your mourning

people send flowers and food and sympathy cards

there is an established "protocol" in most faiths about how to handle death

we all support the grieving family members by wearing dark colors

infidelity is a loss ... with no built-in cultural support

as a matter of fact

the culture often flaunts infidelity right back in your face

Hey Believer,

Sounds like we are both in Seattle. Marlon had his transplant in case you were gone when I posted the news. Still recovering here, stop by if you are feeling up to it.

My dad died of prostate cancer less than a year ago. It was first noticed when he was in his 40's, and he died at 62, pretty young for modern times. The good thing is that he always enjoyed life and people. He worked a job he loved until a year before he died.

If you walk around the Children's hospital here you see some kids who are in pretty bad shape. A teenager with a brain tumor, a toddler with a face that is completely disfigured, a little 3 year old girl with no legs. It gives more value to the life that many of us take for granted.

Marlon was very close to his grandfather. We tell him that he is in the sky, watching Marlon. The other day he was sad and said he had a long rope, that we could use it to go get grandpa and play with him.

I hope all goes as best as is possible given the circumstances. We'll be thinking of you.

It feels so good to chat with all my friends here. This whole thing has been stressful.

I'm fortunate that I've been able to help my parents, and also my sister. She just bought her dream home. She is an attorney and has two cases going to trial, so she hasn't been able to move her things. I spent 6 days moving stuff. Packed the first 2 days, and hired 2 young men to move the heavy stuff.

Now the things are moved and I'm putting down shelving paper, bought some Rubbermaid storage boxes, and putting things away. My sister works too hard, and things aren't well organized. I'm a neat freak, so I'm taking my time and doing things the right way.

The house here is beautiful - on 5 acres, overlooking the sound. This morning there were 2 deer and a fawn in the yard. In the evenings we sit on the porch and listen to the frogs in the pond.

It is a wonderful place for reflection.

Believer,
Sorry for the pain this is causing...
I've got to put in a plug for the book I just read, Donald Piper's "90 Minutes in Heaven" - it's a true story of his account of being killed in a car accident and left by the EMT's for dead for 90 minutes. I think his description of what waits for us is very comforting when facing the death of a loved one. You may want to check it out if you have time.

MSA

Believer....

when a loved one dies

people don't say to you

"Just move on with your life."

I think this is a really cruel remark. No one would dare say this to anyone grieving the death of a loved one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

But when there is an ugly affair, people say that all the time, in an effort to minimize the importance of the lost relationship.

loss is loss

pain is pain

BELIEVER ~~~ My Dad and I talked this morning ... he said he saw my Mom enter his room early this AM ... he was awake but lying quietly in bed. He said he got up to go look for her in the house. He cried a little telling me this. I did not say to him "Just move on with your life Dad." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mom has only "visited" me one time since she died ... and it was her voice only. It was so strange. I was reading ... and she said my name right into my ear .... either I am schitzo now ... or there is something that happends to the spirit after death.

I've had other metaphysical experiences ... but I have to be fueled with alcohol to share them !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> ....

I became an expert in the grief process when everyone died in the same year.

Interestingly, when my FIL died (6 months after my MIL, which was 6 months after my father) I got the feeling that people thought it was a bit excessive to lose so many people in one year. I mean it. The sympathy was running out if you can believe that.

And people do say "move on with life" after a certain period of time. Grief is not really tolerated in modern society.

And, of course, if my H and I had dealt with our grief properly, none of you would know me because I wouldn't be on an infidelity board.

believer,

how are you doing now?

I wanted to say that there is an important difference in how we grieve infidelity and death.

I found that with infidelity, I felt erased. No longer existed.

With death, I was left behind, left out. I existed to grieve. I existed.

We all see things differently--no right or wrong to it; like AMM said, you don't get to chose who does what...or trade them off, one for another...

They just are.

And I believe, they are important.

LA