I see your point, however...

I know that she has told him that we are completely split up and she's not going back to me... that she's over our marriage and it's done with. I'm sure she's told him that she's single and looking to date and that she's filing papers and it's just a technicality. I'm sure he's fine with that too. She said that he hasn't asked or wanted to know anything about her and I. I wish I could rewind to when she was telling me about how my calls made for awkward situations and tell her that, if her husband calling to try to save our marriage runs him off, maybe you aren't as important to him as you may think... but I can't.. I didn't think of that and she won't think of that on her own.

I think it's time to re-evaluate the situation and see where I really stand right now. To briefly summarize:

My wife left me a month ago to "find herself" by splitting up with me. At the time, she was having an EA which turned into a PA after she split up with me. I didn't want to split up but felt that I couldn't force her to want to work on it. I creeped her out by snooping and spying on her for a week, showing up at the house to try and talk her out of it, etc. I did everything wrong.

The first guy crashed and burned when he "cheated" on my wife. She talked to me quite a bit after that happened, then I brought up what I had learned in the mean time from MB.com. She didn't talk to me for several days after that, saying she had a lot to think about.

During that time, she reconnected with an old ex boyfriend, who she has since spent every available minute outside of work with and is falling head over heels for. She hasn't talked to me about anything except splitting up our assets since then. When she finally dropped the bomb on me of filing divorce papers, I showed up at the house to tell her that I had made many changes to myself and believed that I have learned what I needed to to be the husband she always wanted. She wasn't interested. She said she had moved on, it was too late and that she'd already found another man that was everything she wanted to change about me. She said she's not going to give that up. The technicality that I am still legally her husband means nothing to her. We are split up and over with. She's made herself free to date other people and move on with her life by telling me over and over again she's moving on, filing papers, etc. I had no response for why she should give up this OM when he makes her so happy.

The next day after she got off of work, I called her to ask her if she would be willing to sit down and talk about these things that she always wanted to change about me. She again said it was too late for that, that she had moved on and she was happy... that she was completely depressed with me and that her relationship with this new guy makes her happier than she ever was with me... that she likes going out and doing things with him just to be with him, where as we were always home bodies. The conversation turned into her in a rant about all of the things she thought I had done to snoop on her. I couldn't convince her that I had stopped all of those things weeks ago and hadn't done anything like that since. She said that I couldn't keep calling her because she didn't want me to cause problems between her and this new OM.

So, that's where I am right now. I'm facing divorce papers, I have a wife who has negative interest in me, who is falling head over heels for someone she likely has a long future with, who doesn't want me to contact her. She sees her relationship with this new OM as natural and happy without having to work on anything, and she sees a relationship with me as the last thing on earth she wants.

Now, how could I possibly go about doing anything more to fight for her?

accidental double post

***She sees her relationship with this new OM as natural and happy without having to work on anything,***

Herb - I would strongly suggest you get the book *Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders.* It's by one of the Harleys. You can buy it through this site and can often get it used/cheap through amazon.com.

Your wife sounds like a classic Freeloader. Freeloaders believe that good relationships take no work at all and "just happen naturally."

How long has she been with you? And what do you think will happen when her relationship with OM starts requiring effort, protection, investment and "work," as all relationships always do?
Mulan

Definitely sounds spot on. I definitely feel she is under the mindset of a freeloader. Just the other day when I went to talk to her, she point blank said that she's stubborn and she's not going to change. She's only 22 but I refuse to use that as an excuse for her.

We started dating in Jan. 2002, moved in together I think Spring 2003, married October 2004 and split up March 2006.

When her current relationship starts requiring effort, investment and work... well, first I think that will be years from now just as it happened with me... but when it does, I think she will either fall into a deep depression and cheat on him or leave him just as she did with me. If she somehow has kids with the guy before she gets to the point of the marriage not making her happy anymore, I believe she'll finally face facts that all relationships require effort, work and sacrifice.... that because of the children she will face the music and work on her marriage at the time.

That's the 8th book I've been suggested now. I'm going to go broke with all of these books. Hah.

Does the book give any help on how to convince someone to come out of magic fantasy land? I was told over in the EN section that telling her that her fantasy idea of finding someone who just magically makes you happy forever is a disrespectful judgment if I were to tell her that I feel she's mistaken.

Your Dr. Phil signature quote reminded me of my wife. She's always been the selfish type. It used to burn me up how lazy and selfish she was, which made me want to do the things that made her fall in love me even less. I literally cleaned up after her and took care of her through her constant illnesses for 4 years. I was far from a perfect husband... I had many LBs... mainly DJs, but she was no saint herself. She has admitted that she's sure she wasn't much fun to be with, but still comes right out and says she's not going to change.

ok Herb,

lets look at the facts, this is your current situation (which by the way kind of mirrors mine):

Your wife is gone, she doesnt want to work on the marriage, it only exists on paper to her. You lost her at this point.

No matter what you do or say will only make her speed faster in the other direction, blaming her "bad husband" for everything.

She KNOWS you are there in the background waiting, she doesnt even have to lift a little finger to keep you in her life, you jump when she says jump and ask how high (i have done that for so many months now, i dont even remember how long exactly anymore)

She TAKES from you what she needs at that point, USING your emotions for her. As in taking the dog, or doing other stuff.

Does she GIVE anything in return? NO. She is completely in her fantasy world, and yes it is a fantasy world, noone can fall in love that quickly, she is filling the void that she has created within herself over time with feelings that make her feel good, and when one feeling is worn out (like the guy that cheated on her) then WHAM, the next on gets pulled in to fill that void. She wont let you fill that void. You might ask why not, i made all the changes. Because, she blames you for her ending up that way!!! In her eyes you are the root of her problem, she doesnt see that it is in her.

She thinks in order to be happy, other people have to make her happy. You used to do that, now she for whatever reasons she didnt feel happy anymore, but felt empty inside. Most likely caused by her own thinking that only others can make her happy, and NOONE can live up to that. Noone can make you happy for the rest of your life, you have to be happy with yourself. You cant put that burden on someone else, you will ALWAYS end up being disappointed in the end, and unless she learns that, she will not change.

There is nothing you can to change her mind, IMHO. She knows the kind of person you have been those years you have been together. But right now all she sees is unhappiness in your marriage. She has got tunnel vision right now, and is filling that void with feelings she gets from others, she is treating the symptoms of her problem, not the problem itself. And hence the problem will not go away, unless she faces it, and that is within herself.

Dont go filing for divorce, if she wants it... let her do it. Dont pressure her either way. Let her make all the steps. Dont contact her, it does nothing, you have noticed that yourself. All it does is cause you pain, dont torture yourself. Dont be available for her to do anything for her, she doesnt want you to be her husband anymore, fine. Then her new "soulmate" can do all those things. She dont want to be your wife, stop treating her like she is.

I know its hard... but from what i have learned, being on both sides of this. The longer you stay in this, the longer she believes you are there no matter what, the longer this will drag on, the more you push, the more she will retreat. The more you contact her, the more she will retreat. Give her what she wants, dont contact her, she dont want a husband, then her husband is gone. You have already lost her Herb, let her feel what it means to actually have what she wants.

It took me a loooooong time to realize that as long as i have contact with my husband, THIS will continue. I have nothing to loose anymore, i am just in a bad situation where i have trouble taking myself out of it, mentally i am there, now i just have to figure out how to do it. I dont know if anything would have changed had i done it any differently. Yes i was afraid of loosing him even as a friend through all of this, the thought of having no more contact to a man that i lived 19 years with, was the most horrible thought, so i held on.. for what? for nothing.. nothing has changed. The affair has been going on for over 1 1/2 years. I enabled it because i was still available. But i havent had my husband for all this time either. But i felt like i at least still had a connection to him. And what good does it do me? It just prolongs my own agony.

What do i have to loose? What do you have to loose? A spouse that doesnt want to be a spouse and isnt a spouse. Not a whole lot, is it?

***Does the book give any help on how to convince someone to come out of magic fantasy land?***

You can't convince them in words. They won't even hear you. The only thing I've ever heard of on this site that has ever changed a WS's selfish mindset is Plan B or Plan D.

***I was told over in the EN section that telling her that her fantasy idea of finding someone who just magically makes you happy forever is a disrespectful judgment if I were to tell her that I feel she's mistaken.***

The Freeloader's mindset is also a very, very naive, childish and immature view of relationships. I often wonder how many of these people had no role models at all of what a healthy relationship is like. My WH certainly did not, and he is a hardcore Freeloader.

Are you prepared to go to Plan B?
Mulan