I have posted my history here some where but don't know where to find it. Long story short - Married 22 yrs, 3 childrem 19 , 15, 12. Husband serial cheater. Last dday 9th November, 2005 and he moved out, at my request, one week later. All but last affair found out about at one time, very little exposure - just a couple of my closest friends as support for me. This time exposed all over the place, not done with malice but as reason for separation.
My problem now is he is stuck in guilt and shame because of exposure and having to move out. The affair was over before I found out - not so last time. He has been to IC and we have had a couple of MC sessions but he is not willing to give it much effort and has asked for more time to work on his own problems so no more MC for time being.
My question is what should I be doing now? I believe there is an element of fence sitting/ cake eating in that he now has his weekdays to himself and some contact with home, me, kids on the weekend and a place to escape to when it all gets too much. He tells me over and over that he loves me very much but feels empty inside and doesn't know what he wants. He says he feels rudderless. I really do believe that this last affair is over and he has learnt a serious lesson. I don't know what to do from here.

glb - you continue to make excuses for him. You want him "no matter what," and that is YOUR problem, not his problem. He simply knows it and uses it to his advantage.

Let me ask you a question, have you ever heard of a guy named Dwight Gooden ("Doc" Gooden)? Formerly a very good professional baseball player. The he became a serial drug addict and has now, finally, gotten Jail Time for his latest "step outside the boundaries of the law and the court order." In short, we may all like him and wish it were different, but we can wish all day long and it WILL NOT change him.

I'm sorry glb, you picked a "winner" for your husband. Very good a lot of the time and very bad a lot of the time. The "bad" overshadows the good, and now that your children know about it (believe me they know even if you haven't said anything directly other than to the 19 year old) they will be watching you to see if this is "approved of adult behavior" so they will know how to behave when they are, if you'll pardon the pun, "grown ups."

You, hon, are a doormat. Exposure alone will not help. He needs serious counseling for his addiction.

Why is he upset because you have exposed his adultery? Because of two main things. One, he KNOWS adultery is wrong but 'likes' the feeling that doing something 'forbidden' gives him, and, Two, because he loves to be seen in the "spotlight" as the "big man." That's why he loves the accolades at work, and that's why he's upset about others knowing he's a "toad" and not a "prince."

It's all about HIM and his EGO. Quite frankly, his chosen set of STANDARDS suck....but that's my opinion, and he likes them because HE CHOSE them.

So, what are you to. Well, I assume that God plays no part in your lives, certainly not in his, because I have read no mention of God in any of your postings (I went back and read your one other thread). So you will have to attempt recovery, IF that is really what you want, on your own.

To that end, I would strongly suggest you get a copy of Surviving An Affair by Willard Harley, read all the articles on this website, and decide what YOUR Boundaries and Standards are. Once you know more about yourself, you may be in a position to help your husband, but not until then. If DON'T choose "Tough Love" (which by the way another book you might what to get, by James Dobson) you will continue to ENABLE him and the cycle will continue.

If you don't mind his "dipping his wick" all over and potentially exposing you to serious Sexually Transmitted Diseases, to say nothing of the example in "adult MARRIED behavior" it teaches your children, then simply let him twist for a while and then let him back in with NO rules and NO consequences for HIS CHOICES.

And you, too, can have Dwight Gooden....until one day he gives you HIV or Genital Herpes, or any of a host of "sentences" that YOU can't plea bargain out of.

(((((glb)))))

WE KNOW it hurts and we know how "crazy" it makes your thoughts. It's late, but NOW is the time for you to stop doing all things you used to do THAT DIDN'T CHANGE A THING.

Who knows, perhaps this might even be a time when the two of you will surrender to Christ and learn about what God wants in a marriage. He is there, knocking at the door to your hearts, waiting to see if you'll invite him in.

God bless.

glb - was it his decision to move out, or did you "force" him?

Serial cheaters - if that's truly what he is - require "industrial strength" approaches, i.e., more than what basic MB principles can offer, IMHO.

Is he still in IC? Do you know whether he was honestly forthcoming to the counselor? Does he act more humble or arrogant?

FH -
This is not helpful, FH, except for those who might choose to ridicule you, and they would have good reason.

FH and WAT,
Thanks so much for replying to me.
FH - No I've never heard of your baseball player, I'm in Australia and baseball does not feature much here. As for your other suggestions-
I have read and read on this sight as well as any other sources I could find and including How to Survive an Affair.
I don't know where you got the idea that I have no standards or boundaries but believe me I do and that they are in place and clearly communicated to my H. I don't recall ever saying that I want him back "no matter what" in fact this is directly opposite of what I am after. This is why I asked him to leave, why he is in IC and why we are no longer in MC. I will not take him back until I see lasting changes in his behaviour and have withdrawn from rebuilding our marriage until he is able to invest himself in this process fully. All this he knows.
You are right in that this is about him and his ego but I can't help him with that. As you pointed out this is his problem and as I understand it he has to heal himself before he can recommit to our marriage and our family.
As for being a role moel to our children - I'm doing the best I can. My son is aware of what his dad did and that I find it completely unacceptable behaviour and that is why he is out of the house, I'm not sure what else you would expect me to do here. I can assure you my daughters are still innocent of the reasons dad left. The elder of the two has actually told me she thinks its best that we are separate because she knows her father being absent so often with work and other obligations makes me unhappy.
I am a very self aware person, in touch with my thoughts and feelings and acutely aware of my own stengths and weaknesses. I don't feel as though I am being a doormat this time although I certainly did during our last recovery. In fact I have been feeling stronger than ever before of late.
As for God not being in our lives you are mistaken and not only that but I had no idea from the hundreds of other posts I have read here that christianity was a prerequiste for asking for support from this forum.

WAT -
No I didn't have to force him out as such but he did leave only because I requested it. This had been a condition set down after our first dday and subsequant recovery and I really felt that I needed to stand my ground on that point else I would never again be taken seriously.
Yes he is still in ICand is intending to continue but as I'm not there and we really don't talk about his counselling I can only hope he is being honest. He certainly was honest during the MC sessions we did have and his IC counsellor is also our MC and seemed fully aware of our history.
As for his behaviour now it is most definitely humble to the point that he says and feels he is not good enough for me and is unable to forgive himself for the pain he has caused.
Which brings me to the crux of my question. How is it best for me to behave with him during this time? My gut tells me that some kind of version of a plan a would work best. Be the light house and all that. However what I have read of plan a is that is supposed to be used to stop the affair and I trully believe that that is already the case.
Any ideas??

Is he good enough for you?

Pep

IMHO, tough love is called for.

As I alluded to above, MB principles work very well for garden variety affairs. Serial cheaters are another matter. But this does not mean that Plan A should be skipped - quite the contrary. Plan A is all about the BS finding and fixing THEIR bad contributions to the marital environment. We all have (had) them. Despite any moose brain worms running around in his head, you should still introspectively search out your past marital behavior and make any needed corrections. Even IF he can overcome his demons, a successful marriage will rely on your best participation as well.

And for what it's worth, there are no prerequisites for asking support here other than having a willingness to learn, to critically look in the mirror, and being passionate about honesty.

WAT
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Manilobotomy: A procedure to remove that awful nagging tune out of your head.

Pepper I think the good in him is more than good enough for me. The good side of him is loving, caring, generous and funny. Unfortunately the good in him was not what lead us to this situation and that is what I cannot accept.

I don't believe that his infidelity defines him as a person and my problem here is how to reconcile the good in him with his darker side and forgive the actions that have devestated our lives and that of our children. My hope is that through IC and his journey of self discovery he will learn to identify and control the impluses that drive his infidelity.
G

You can forgive someone and still not trust their judgement.

You can forgive someone and still not feel they are a spouse you want to remain married to.

You can forgive someone with no expectations they will ever change.

Think about what you mean when you say you want to forgive a multi-adulteror.

Reconciliation cannot happen without forgiveness... but forgiveness can be had in absence of reconciliation of the marriage.

Pep

Here is my thought

if you intend to remain married to him

if he gets his shytt together and becomes whole

if your love for him has not been extinguished by the time that happends

if you can find a way to respect him

.... then

have an attorney draw up a POST nuptual agreement

... if he committs adultery again ... he loses all marital assets in any subsequent divorce

what do you think of that?

I think this should be part of any reconciliation where there have been multiple infidelities by one person.

Pep

RIGHT ON, SISTA!!

I don't understand why this doesn't get more advocacy around here - for ALL cases.

A truly repentent FWS ought to jump at the prospect.

It doesn't guarantee future fidelity, it just makes for a little more justice when that doesn't happen.

I for one now advoctae for pre-nups. This is easy to argue for after seing my finances and retirement pension "adulterated."

WAT

Pep, WAT,

I don't know that we have such a thing as a post nuptial agreement here and if would be at all binding. Pre-nups are still not all that prevelant down here. Anyway he has said over and over that he doesn't want to deal with solicitors - a waste of money to him (he's an accountant, in no way mean but not wastful), he would rather give it all to me than pay those kind of fees. Personally, I think this is his guilt speaking and I know that the courts here protect him for a year from this kind of sweeping gesture.

Pep, I'm kind of getting the feeling you think that there is no hope for real change for serial cheaters. Is this true?

As for my intentions -

I do intend to stay married to him IF he can get his act together, not otherwise.

I intend to give the recovery and rebuilding of my marriage the best participation I can. I feel like I can only do this though when he is ready to come back and also be active in that process.

I have spent many hours of introspection. Have spent many hours in IC and MC. I know what my faults are in this marriage and I am working at changing them, at making myself a better person so that I may be the best spouse and parent I can be. I certainly know that I'm not perfect.

Rightly or wrongly, for me to get through this with my love intact I have to separate the man I love from the behaviour I hate. For me to be prepared recover our marriage I have to believe he is able to recognise his triggers and control this behaviour. So far, from what I understand thru our counselling, this is where he fails. I know he needs to own his choices and be accountable for them. I applaud all those that do. I know that his infidelity is a part of him but not the totality of the man. My current emotional safety depends on keeping this belief. I suppose it's a bit like a child - the behaviour is bad not the kid. A bit simplistic I know but this is the only way I can deal with what has happened at the moment.

WAT is there such a thing as a guarantee of future fidelty aside from death?? If you could find it, your retirement pension would be sooooo much more attractive.

Thanks again ,
G

glb - It's not. So do you feel better now that you've attacked everything I said? I could go back to your posts and quote each part that lead me to say what I said, but what would be the point? Suffice it to say that when you asked: "What's happening here - guidance needed" I went back and read what I could of your posts before formulating a responsive post to you. I did NOT understand that the "guidance" you requested was anything BUT God's advice.

"Serial." How many times before? NOW you "take a stand" because you have Boundaries and Standards? I understand that. HAVING Boundaries and Standards was never the issue....the issue was, and is, WHAT they are and what they are based upon. But I am glad you finally have chosen some this time, and I sincerely hope that they will work for you.

It is equally obvious from your retort, that you don't want to discuss anything faith related, so I leave you to others who may be better suited to "give you what you want" and not be the cause of more pain or struggle in your life.

God bless and good luck.

glb - where is "down here"?

To be honest, I do not know the legal contortions necessary for a post nup. I recall one person here establishing one, but I cannot remember who it was. For that matter, I don't know the steps for a pre-nup, either! But it seems that if pre-nups are doable between two people, then why not post nups - or any kind of "nup" aka a "contract."

I guess divorce is a guarantee, although it can be more nerve wracking than death. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FH-

Your paranoia is glaring. Anytime someone says something that you don't 100% agree with, it's an "attack." Why is this?

WAT
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Embrace your inner fish.

foreverhers...

you can't be serious that YOU were attacked...now can ya..

you pretty much tell her...you ASSUME she's not Godly...

and when she addresses that by saying....

as for God not being in our lives you are mistaken..

you tell her she attacked you...

I don't get it at all.....not at all

ARK