MBC,

I think that if you're looking for unbiased answers, you've probably come to the wrong place. For many, your situation is too close to home and irritates old wounds that are starting to heal.

That being said, I must respectfully disagree with the conventional wisdom. I think there is a point of no return in each situation. There comes a time when it's no longer good to go back - the past is carved in stone and cannot be changed. I think that time for you is now - once you've remarried and taken a vow with someone else it's a little late in the game to try to rewrite history. You've made a commitment to someone else and it's time to honor it.

No sin is unforgivable and at this point, maybe the best thing you can do for EVERYONE is learn from your mistakes and do better this time around. If you haven't already, apologize sincerly to your exwife for the pain you have caused her and then let her be. The fact that she became physically ill from your past indecision should be a clue. Make a decision and stick to it - let her get on with her healing. It takes time, but sooner or later just about everyone gets there. She has lessons to learn from this too.

I do agree that it would be wise for you to attend counseling. It can help you gain insight into why you did the things you did. Hopefully, that will keep you from repeating the same mistakes of the past. Work on letting go of the guilt for your past mistakes and start trying to find the peace that you need for the commitment to your new wife.

Good Luck to you

I disagree - there are numerous "sins" that are unforgivable, and not just limited to the obvious ones like mass murder. It is not helpful to "let go" of guilt unless you make reparations to the injured party - which is easy if you have stolen her car, not so easy if you have destroyed her life. Then there is the matter of calling an affair a mistake - taking the wrong turn is a mistake; adding 2 plus 2 and getting 5 is a mistake; having an affair is intentional.

There can be no commitment to honor when such a commitment conflicts with a previous one. If you are still married when you marry again, it is bigamy, and the second marriage is not valid, even though the second spouse may have been blissfully unaware that the person she/he married was married to someone else. Marrying an affair partner is morally, if not legally, equivalent to this situation.

Well, I for one am thankful God is God and that even HE forgives mass murderers, adulters, liars, thiefs, and every other sin there is out there.

because if any one of us were God, there would be no grace or mercy at all, and everyone of us would go to ******, and there would be NO heaven at all.

It appears many people assume God will forgive them, even if they don't forgive others...maybe they should read the verses just after the Lords Prayer:

For IF ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly will also forgive you: BUT If ye forgive NOT men their trespasses, NEITHER will your Father forgive YOUR trespasses

according to those it doesn't work that way, if you don't forgive others, God doesn't forgive you...

Hmm, then I guess that would be YOUR ex-husbands FIRST wife and NOT you...correct??

Even though you may not have realized your ex-husband was STILL married when you met him, it was still an affair, even IF on his part, which by what you have stated means it was DOOMED from the START!!

MBC,

What does it say in Deut. 24??

It really is [color:"green"] greener [/color] ...until you stop watering and weeding that grass too...

dearest thorned....

ya know my story...don't pretend to spin it. ok?

when I met him, he was legally separated...and had been for months...his estranged wife lived three states away...he told me he WAS LEGALLY DIVORCED...no kids....no assets..no property...and they had a short marriage. I believed him, and dated him for two years before marrying him...even his own parents BELIEVED THE DIVORCE WAS FINAL.

never heard from the xw ever. not ever. last I heard she was in (not gonna say..edited out)
but when I found out? I was devastated. I was so upset and angry. but I was NOT THE WOMAN WHO CAUSED THEIR DIVORCE...they did that on their own. I was NOT PART OF THEIR PROBLEM.

THIS ISSUE IS TOTALLY COUNTER.

My marriage was blessed as I went and had multiple sessions with my pastor...he said that my xh ( then fiancee) needed to confess the LIE TO ME and ask ME TO FORGIVE HIM as he lied to me and had previously told me it was final. My minister once told me, that b/c we both WORKING IN UNISION TOGETHER DID NOT DO ANYTHING TO UNDERMINE HIS PREVIOUS MARRIAGE...as I only knew my xh as a single man, that this was not a problem, adultery in this marriage. but that my xh needed to be and work on honesty.

and yea, my minister saw him as repentant. and that was fine.

this whole sitch?

APPLES AND ORANGES..NOT EVEN SIMILAR SO DON'T PAIN IT LIKE THAT AND DON'T GO THERE.

NOW WHAT MAKES ME SICK? PEOPLE WHO OPENLY KNOW AND ARE 100 PERCENT FULLY AWARE THEY ARE UNDERMINING AND BRINGING DOWN BOTH A MARRIAGE AND FAMILY...KIDS OR NO KIDS...IT IS THE AWARENESS OF THE SIN...IT IS THE SIN PERIOD, BUT ESPECIALLY BAD WHEN THE SIN IS IGNORED AND THEY KEEP ON DOING WHAT THEY FEEL IS GOOD.

I found out btw...mere days before my wedding...just a few weeks to be exact. Seems they had for 2 years....TWO YEARS...divorce papers filed, and were legally separated, and it was simply not signed by judge. when I met him? households divided. he said they'd been APART FOR SIX MONTHS...and he gave her all his furniture, the car, etc. unlike how he treated me btw...

what did I find out> what did make me sick after all of this?

I WILL TELL YA.

FOUND OUT THAT MY XH GOT IN TROUBLE WITH HIS FORMER COMPANY FOR AN AFFAIR W/A COWORKER...this happened before I met him, but would have been concurrent with the timeline of his separation/divorce FROM HIS FIRST WIFE...so HE CHEATED ON HIS FIRST WIFE.

My xh's life patterns:
1)meets high school/college gf. they date for a few years. He asks her to marry him. Ironically he says she reminds him always of me and vice versa...saw photos..he's right. HE MEETS WIFEY NO. 1 AT A BAR...SLEEPS W/HER, and then BEGINS AFFAIR BEHIND FIANCEE'S BACK.
2)Fiancee finds out, breaks up w/him and he immediately moves in with the woman who becomes wifey numero one.
3)is married for maybe a year or so to wifey no. 1. they move from their home state to another state and (found this out maybe a year ago from his former roommate during his single days/when I met him)works for large company. He supposedly between year two and 3 of marriage, has affair with older coworker. From what his roommate told me during a dinner w/he and his wife, my xh has always "HAD A PROBLEM WITH DOING THE RIGHT THING BUT NO PROBLEMS IN COVERING IT UP". He and wifey separate/split..both are very young IN EARLY 20'S, and NO KIDS...wifey moves four or three states away, they file papers, and just live life.
4)xh MOVES TO MY HOME STATE after his separation and LEAVES THE COMPANY...HAD I KNOWN ANY OF THIS AT ALL...NEVER WOULD'VE MARRIED HIM PERIOD! ANY QUESTION???? GET IT??? when I meet him he is appearing as a single divorced guy, who simply "married the wrong person" or so I was told. We openly date, WITH BLESSING FROM HIS FAMILY, FRIENDS, ETC. Never was treated as an ow. why? I AM NOT ONE NOR WOULD EVER BE. whirlwind dating...actually we were very much in love...as much in love as this man is capable of being...and we get engaged. married two and a half years before our child is born. our child is two and a half when he has first affair. this affair is one w/monkeyho and carries on off/ for two years. during last six months of his affair with monkeyho, when it's apparent that HIS FAMILY WOULD NEVER ACCEPT HER and that I'd exposed all over the place, he begins COVERT AFFAIR WITH MUCH YOUNGER OW2, FAMILY VALUES...he begins seeing her during our last four months living together...I think he's just unfaithful with one person...NOT KNOWING THERE WERE IN FACT 2 OW...

saddest part? what did I find out from a party buddy of his? He told me that my xh said to him, "well monkeyho and I aren't gonna work out. Family hates her. plus she lives outta town. if she could only move to Ga, we'd be ok. but she can't BE THERE FOR ME LIVING SEVEN HOURS AWAY....so I met this other girl...she's nice, pretty good, and treats me well. AS FOR MY WIFE? SHE'S BEEN THRU TOO MUCH FOR US TO MAKE THIS GOOD AGAIN." That's what my xh told me and what I was told verbatim from his former best friend.

So with my xh, there is a clear and distinct pattern. I see two, possibly three women in his path of destruction who had NO IDEA WHAT THIS MAN WAS ABOUT.....AND I SEE TWO WOMEN WHO WERE EXACTLY KNOWING...FULLY OK WITH BEING MISTRESSES AND I WAS NOT ONE ONF THEM.

I think myself, his first fiancee, and probably wifey no. 1 were all duped by him...all duped into thinking this was forever...and that we were safe and secure and this was the guy we could build a future and family with...he is very convincing.

I see what this guy here is doing is much of the same. he's got a longterm wife...and mom to his kids...and he betryaed her in the most vile way. He disrespected her and left her and the kids...AND THE KIDS..for this much younger woman.

Was the ow aware she was a mistress? UH YEA!

Was the H aware he was cheating with an ow? UH YEA!

was the poor bw awre? NO NO NO!

And the man left his precious family for a mistress. As the Bible says...THROWING PEARLS BEFORE SWINE. Ever try to put pearl necklace on a pig? really hard to do it...my xh's tried now twice in last 3 years!

that's what he's doing. This man is trying to decide if he wants the real wife and mom..the woman betrayed...or his toy.

HMMM...LET'S SEE..IS IT WOMAN OF SUBSTANCE? WIFE OF MANY YEARS? MOM OF THE KIDS? OR IS IT THE AFFAIR TOY?

WHICH WILL IT BE?

I vote for the wife...but even wonder if she'd take him back.

I also ponder this for myself as my xh and his affair wife are on the rocks...been since day one...and would I do anything? as of now, I'd remain single.

Nellie2,

I don't want to start a theological debate but I'm curious - when you refer to unforgivsble sins - do you mean unforgivable in the eyes of God or of man?

Quoting ThornedRose:



I think ThornedRose said it well. Isn't it a little hypocritical to expect God to forgive us if we can't forgive others who have hurt us? Adultery is only one sin of many. Take your pick. None of us are without some type of sin. Bitterness, grudges, and having an unforgiving spirit are also sins. Just because adultery was not our particular sin doesn't give us the right to start casting stones.



I think this is giving a ws and their om or ow a little too much power. It is also a way of avoiding our own personal responsibility. A very painful lesson or setback, yes, but if the bs's life is destroyed, it is because they've chosen it to be that way. I don't know how long you've been divorced but if it's 5-10 years or more and you're still blaming them for destroying your life, you need to find a way to get over it and move on or YOU will destroy your own life.

Of course there are different degrees of "sin" or crime or immorality. Every society on earth ranks wrongdoing in some way. Who in their right mind would say that stealing a loaf of bread is as bad as murdering your neighbor in cold blood? Even if I believed in a god, I wouldn't believe in one that would rank all wrongdoing equally.

Of course the BS's life, and the lives of the children, can be ruined, not only emotionally but financially as well. This is particularly true for WS's who desert the family after many years of marriage, leaving a middle-aged or elderly wife with few job skills, and who manage to get out of paying spousal support or even much child support. WS's/OP's can not get out of responsibility for the destuction they have wrought just because a certain amount of time has passed.

JP~Just curious here....so you'd take your xWH back if he met the above conditions?

Remember, often the WS becomes the custodial parent. The courts don't give a fig about marital fidelity when it comes to custody.

So the BS can be forced by law to give money to a person who has proven to be untrustworth.

Once again, I want to assert my more than willingness to support my daughter, and at the same time express my dismay that I have to send money to a woman I don't trust, who has not accountability to anyone regarding how that money is used.

justypeachy

I read your sorry and I happen to agree with you on the apples and oranges part. You did not knowingly commit adultery. I think my situation is about half-way in between yours and mbc's. I did not knowingly commit adulter in the sense that I knowingly had an EA or PA with my h deliberately deceiving his 1st w. However, I did engage in an EA, PA once he was physically seperated and d papers prepared but d was not final.

I did not know he was m, that 1st date, just as you did not know that your h's d was not final, you believed him to be single. So I would have to agree that you could not be seen as an adulteress, until you KNEW he was still married, which I think you said you found out a little before your wedding, and I am assuming his d was final by then.

Anyway, I wanted to share with you something my counselor said to me. People divorced way before Moses. A man would d a women with no more than a verbal statement. Moses required a writ of d to be given. A man/woman can d their spouse emotionally, physically, financially and in their heart before the legal paperwork is finalized. I am not saying this to justify any involvement with a physically or legally seperated person, because if you KNOW the d is NOT FINAL and engage in a relationship YOU ARE AN ADULTERER, plain and simple. But I believe in your case, they may have been d with no chance for reconcilation, just without the legal work finalized.

You didn't know so I don't think you case is the same.

As far as unforgivable sin, my best interpretation of the Bible, is that their is only ONE UNFORGIVABLE SIN, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which I beleive is making yourself equal to God and denying Christ as the Son of God.

mbc

I haven't read all the posts so you may have already addressed this but I wanted to mention something that came to my mind after my last post that may apply to your situation. I think somewhere in the Bible (it might be 1 Corintians 6 or may be OT/NT) that if you are to d, you are to either remain unmarried or reconcile with your spouse, EXCEPT in the case where your spouse has married another, then you are NOT to reconcile.


Ann

Frauelin


Theological debates are welcome in the thread I started so as not to t/j, I think I called in beliefs about marriage and divorce or remarriage.

I don't really want to debate, but I want to study the scripture and have others point out their interpretation to me and some verses they believe are relevant to my situation.

I hope you with post there. Thanks.

Sorry to t/j.

OUR CASES ARE NOT AT ALL THE SAME OK?

will not go into theo discussion..

my xh:
1)had separated from his wife in A DIFFERENT STATE A FEW HUNDRED MILES AWAY SIX MONTHS EARLIER BEFORE MOVING TO MY STATE.
2)I met him after he'd been IN MY STATE THREE MONTHS AFTER HE MOVED...SO HE'D BEEN SEPARATED QUITE A WHILE.
3)both thought DIVORCE WAS FINAL WHEN IT WAS NOT. THE WIFE WAS NOT INTERESTED IN ANY WAY IN RECONCILIATION AND SUPPOSEDLY HAD MOVED ON.
4)THERE WERE NO CHILDREN INVOLVED IN HIS MARRIAGE.
5)even HIS PARENTS BELIEVED HIS DIVORCE WAS FINAL.
6)When I was going thru docs needed etc., to get our license, that's when I asked for the judges' signed copy...he had the PAPERS SENT TO HIM, but no signature on it from judge. Had to call and get judge to fax it, JUDGES OFFICE SAID IT WS NOT SIGNED.
7)they signed it and it was sent almost immediately.

SO I AM NOT AN OW. I WAS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE.

I do not do debates and am not interested in doing so.

I do believe that WILLINGLY AWARE AFFAIR MARRIAGES ARE DOOMED.

I do not and will not be moved on my beliefs. Never would I undermine SOMEBODY ELSE'S FAMILY AND MARRIAGE...could not live with myself if I did it.


And from what I do know...if my xh repents AND CHANGES HIS LIFE...HE MUST TURN FROM HIS AFFAIR MARRIAGE. period.

Do I wnat him now? No. Would I want him if he truly repented and sought help for his other issues and changed? Can't say. But as OF TODAY...THIS MONTH, THIS YEAR I AM THANKFUL I AM A SINGLE WOMAN AND HAPPY THIS WAY...I DON'T WANT TO BE MIXED UP WITH A WS.

Peachy,

Do you believe him capable of that kind of change?

You've described him as a narcissitic playboy who's cheated on no less than 3 wives....that kind of change requires a tremendous amount of personal work. It's almost exhausting thinking about it.

You've also described yourself as a young, attractive, vibrant professional woman...do you think maybe you want the picture perfect fantasy life he provided pre-affair and not necessarily him?

Trust me, I know how hard it is to give up and grieve that dream...

hugs
DW

yep.

and my THINKING MIND tells me that I should never go that path again...but I knew him before he was the WS.

it is so sad the before and the after effects isn't it of adultery and the whole lifestyle change that goes and accompanies it...? Like you take somebody and turn their whole world inside out. The playboy he is now, used to be the man who would walk down the street with him always closest to the road to protect me. The man he used to be was the man who would sit in church and have his arm around me. The man I knew, was the man who was happiest when we were around our friends, mutual friends, and many from church...when we travelled with them and when we had dinners and so much fun. It literally changed instantly and overnight. Like having a rug pulled out from under you.

But I am in no denial. I DO NOT AND WOULD NEVER WANT A WS BACK. There is a clear distinction b/w the two creatures...a reformed and changed FWS and a WS. HUUUUUGE DIFFERENCE.

Look at all the repeat offenders here on the boards...look how these good people are having to sometimes defeat adultery again and again...I don't have the energy.

Something interesting has happened in my personal life in the last 2 weeks. I will post on gq or dating about it. It does NOT involve my xh. But could happily involve my future and my ds's future <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MBC,

The grass is [color:"green"] GREENER [/color] where YOU water it.

Your core values???

From what you have told us, your CORE values are the following:

- Disrespect of marriage in general
- Disrespect and emotional abuse of your spouse
- Cheat, lie and manipulate
- Use people who love you like they are interchangeable place holders

So there really shouldn't be any conflict in you, as you are being ever so true to your CORE VALUES. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />