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I guess I have no choice but go for LS agreement but I still hope that we won’t go down that road. Maybe she’ll come back to her senses after my in-laws fly back to Europe on April 25th. After that my WW would have to assume some responsibilities. I will take DD1 to day care and she will take DD2 to a different day care.
Speaking about babble, my WW also told me once: “You’re not a bad person, it’s just that we don’t match.”
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Hey, I'm back! And I won the Easter Egg Hunt Traic sent me on. What do I win?
(((((IK)))) Hmmm...abbreviating that sounds like I'm calling you icky.
You know I'm not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Beginning with the email:
"You told you didn’t understand me anymore and I believe it’s difficult considering that you knew only what you saw,"
This is a belief within your WW. She believes no one knows the real her...great fodder for A's, btw. I know this one. When you believe love is earned, then you cannot be loved for the real you. Your fear of intimacy causes this, along with the belief, so that you are always protected from being known...and excluded from being loved your being.
Her issues, not yours.
She has them with everyone, and part of what fuels the fantasy with OM is this very thing. She may believe he is the only one who knows the real her--yet, this delusion exists in the same context as with anyone else...she gets to present the real her version to him, find acceptance for it, and still not be loved for her being. It is the foundation for the A and its downfall, if you truly get this, IK. You haven't gotten it...I believe...because you share in it.
I know this email seared your very soul...with its untruths. She is in full justification mode here, rewriting her history to make it okay to do what she's doing. That's also the trap of earning love...how can you do that with OP? If you loved your life with your FH (faithful H) then you are the scum. Have to rewrite to entitle herself, like she's doing to her mother in her email, otherwise, you're scum. Pure scum. Even in your own heart. And you get this in you, because the only way to feel right about crushing pain into so many others is to lie to yourself...making the lie your history, not your present. It is twisted, difficult to understand, yet to me, understandable. No approval here. Just a fact. With an A, you have to choose between making your marriage a lie or the fantasy; and one feels great while the other doesn't.
She is lying when she says she was the perfect wife and daughter in law...even in her own heart, she knows she was creating resentments, keeping a marriage tally, sacrificing...all by choice, and did it anyway. She couldn't and can't understand she drained her own love bank, chose a corrosive perspective to view life and injured herself time and time again, believing it others, not her. She struggles with deep shame, from her parents, her mother especially, when she was little and chose to be blame rather than human. She does not see her pleasing/fixing as abusive, difficult to live with, lacking respect and receiving none. She only sees the receiving none part. She traps herself and believes others are the prison guards. A tragedy. One that she created.
Notice she did not claim to her mother she was the perfect daughter, and accepts not being the perfect mother. This is there thing, their battle, which your MIL is no more equipped to deal with than her daughter. Not yours. These issues are part of your marriage, what I've been urging you to change, to change the pattern--not of your making. Still under your influence.
This is an important email, IK. She reveals the lie she tells herself...first, of choosing to please, and then ending the main paragraph in being trapped by her choice...with no choice. All perspective, not reality. Dangerous beliefs. These beliefs kill off her ability to love and make the fantasy more precious. She is looking for a way out of being herself...she hates her very self and her self is tired of this...being recreated, pushed down, stomped on and brutalized. She is at war within and you are a casualty.
Inside, that talk of not being strong enough to divorce and take her on her own happiness is common. This is more twisted thinking, IK, and nothing about you. Not real. She craves a clean slate...the build up on hers gets too deep and her only coping skill is to recreate herself anew, better, more lovable. Her own build up prohibits her from feeling loved well, deeply and enough. Not in others and how well they love. She doesn't know this...the way to break an A is to fight fire with fire and be new. First tenet of Plan A. Giving your wife a clean slate is too much for you--like sacrificing an arm or leg. You are in the same boat as she is, side by side, with so much build up inside, covering your own clean slate. I've attempted to show you this and felt your disbelief, entrenched in the fact you've earned her love...heck, she OWES you fidelity for all your pleasing...yet still, your build up remains, thick with entitlement...created by you, and waiting for you to wipe it clean.
I thought you could do that kind act for yourself, by doing it for her. A brilliant Plan A...sometimes, we have to choose which we love more...resentment or our spouses.
Does knowing your WW's choices come from reactions of a child help at all? Her pain is real, though the A is fantasy. Her longing for her self, to believe she is whole, complete and lovable just as she is, without one word or action, is a chasm inside of her. Draining pain. And she's had this her whole life...she's smart and knows on the most basic level she is choosing her life...and she looks around and wonders why she is the defective one. That's why she feels she will die if her daughters see her as she is...being fileted by life instead of living it. Like her mother. Do you see her child strong in her? See that little girl, 3-years-old, running her adult life? More pain added to old pain, fresh and constant. No wonder she can't handle being around your girls...she triggers to her little girl pain, wants it to stop, now, and bears all her own expectations, failing them, as a mother, because she doesn't know her little girl inside is overwhelming her, choosing her life, handing her emotions from a 3-year-old comprehension level.
She knows running from pain; you didn't cause it, can't control it or cure it. You have influence, IK...your example to your children, her seeing you acknowledge when they are angry, hurt or fussing...will help heal her child. Remember that book I advised? Between Parent and Child? One of those things you thought you'd get to...might save your marriage. God doesn't give us these parallels without reason. And your inner boy is alive and kicking right now; has been since January...to the detriment of your Plan A. Saving our marriage is saving ourselves...
Everything your wife is asking for in her email to her mother, was what her mother didn't provide her (or her father)...loving her not because she was their daughter, but because she was their good daughter. She was the one they turned control over to--she was their shame. All that her parents have learned in their lives was captured in that one moment on the couch...holding the infant daughter in her arms, when she leaned on that baby, smothering it as a child. They were not strong for her; now she sees herself not strong for herself, either. They were not the caregivers, but the takers...they didn't show her how to handle pain, anger, frustration, helplessness...didn't show her that these were her own...only to displace them, run and resent. They are not strong for her now. She says she is sorry they had to witness her A first hand...yet I believe she relishes it now, that she was finally held, the little girl who finally got loved, even when she was bad. She was actively wrong and harmful. Still loved. Hasn't sunk in. IL's are weak, still, in truth, courage and consumed by their own fears. They have struggled all their lives with these same issues...yes, a sit down is important. Talk to them first and ask them to own what they did, describe how it was the same for them growing up, how their parents didn't show emotions or recognize them...a running away from the inside, and how they committed to being different parents, all the while, passing it on and on. Ownership is what your WW most craves...she is diseased with blame and shame, being the cause, control and cure of everyone else. That would be an important step.
If this didn't happen in your chat, have it again. And again. Each night until they are gone. Her issues are part of the marriage. They are important.
See how all of this is about ending the A, the fantasy? You changing, thoroughly, claiming yourself, your stuff, was crucial to Plan A...along with exposure, injecting respect, your own self-care and wiping out your resentments. All were as crucial as Plan B...effective Plan A's don't have their tongue missing...they have it freed by respect, owning themselves and their choices...and your self has fought to get there using this betrayal, to finally be heard. Now you are mute. A betrayal of self.
Hear your little boy? "How fair is this?" Outrage, being right in being so wronged...all of that...you are feeding your muteness, your wishful child is running your days, surviving mired within incredible pain. Half of that is yours, IK. Has been and will be until you claim your self, also. A lot of the same stuff WW has to deal with, you do also. Yet only one of you has sunk into the wet concrete of entitlement...or have you both?
Plan A wasn't a manipulation to save your marriage and stop the A...if that is all it is intended for, then you would have a damaged, crippled marriage saved, wouldn't you? And you would not trust again because you manipulated her in her choices.
Plan A was to reconnect with your honesty, openness...to yourself and others. To see reality and not the smeary fantasy you were living...again, contributes to the state of the marriage, not at all to the choice of an A. Important. Listening and repeating...which takes you being focused, present, not defensive, and injects respect. Introduces separate and equal, awareness of your WW's pain, her issues...and no longer making them your own.
I know where the battery acid on your marriage came in...from your inlaws. They are entrenched in the idea that one spouse takes care of the other...owns the others' thoughts, feelings and beliefs. They have both been crushed under this burden...because you can't really give those things away...only lie to yourself that you did. Shift blame, feel relief...yet continue in pain; because we own what we own, inherently, without choice to shift it. That is a fantasy. So we each carry double burdens with this belief...choosing to see love as something from the outside, owed and earned, when it is an embedded choice. Their lives have not gotten them to a sane belief; they continue the fantasy and that's how they relate to their daughter. They self soothe with this same fantasy, same fears, same control issues. A disrespectful life. A life full of disappointment, resentment, frustration and heartbreak...and no joy. That's why MIL comes across to us as an enemy and a supporter; the duality of what they example, how they choose to live, is corrosive in its presence.
It is how you chose to work your marriage. I am asking you, please, to choose differently. I am asking you for a full fledged Plan A, which heals you, soars your, and reclaims you and your life. So that you will be okay with or without WW...you will know you are complete, whole, not defective, loved for your being because you will commit to loving your being, finally.
Same issues, different reactions and choosing to live reactively. IK...time to get this, know this and live it...for your own sake, and the dear sake of your daughters. No more passing it on. They are young. You have this choice. The knowledge...the way. Time to hold your inner boy and tell him to trust the adult IK...who knows all of this; will care for and love him--good, bad or ugly--forever. The only time we can say it and mean...is with ourselves.
LA
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LA,
just to be safe, I deleted my last post on the other thread - maybe delete yours too?
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You're sending me BACK on the hunt? Ack. ::  :: Which darn thread was it? I'm a posting maniac. Laughing now...oh, THAT one. Heehee. Okay, Traic...and IK...I don't do cloak and dagger stuff well at all...totally a buffoon...nerdy buffoon with no finesse. I'm okay with that. Always wanted the cool decoder ring, but I would have just showed it to everyone, so what was the point? LA
Last edited by LovingAnyway; 04/16/06 09:32 PM.
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LA,
Thank you for your post. My ILs are very nervous and agitated lately. Their departure date is getting closer and closer. We didn’t have any chat. Maybe today, who knows? I am not raising my hopes too much but I still hope…
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What did you think about talking with them first...asking what they wanted to say, how they felt, what they believed...and if they thought about owning how their parents were, what they wanted to do for their DD, and what they learned since?
I wish for some truth dousing...and you said you would reply to my post a long time ago...and you didn't. Said you had to think about it. This one reminds me of it...same urging, felt like deja vu. I don't like to repeat myself.
Did you run this morning?
LA
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What WW bullcrap!
YOU'D GET TO THAT ATTORNEY AND SHOW HOW YOUR WW HATES THE KIDS...READ THE DARN EMAIL ALOUD TO THE COURT !!!!
I DON'T CARE WHAT CANADA SAYS. KIDS DESERVE A REAL PARENT NOT SOME SELF ABSORBED PRIMA DONNA WHO SCREAMS ME ME ME FROM THE TOP OF HER LUNGS.
fight...
FIGHT FOR YOUR KIDS!
me:37 BS; s:7;
xh:38; OW:26;eloped w/OW 1 wk after D: 12/29/03. OC born 3/17/04. Happy! Blessed to be the mother of a wonderful son..great profession..Life's good!
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Unfortunately, I don't have that email. All I have is the context of the email but no proof that it was written by my WW. Lately, my WW is very nervous and irritated by my presence. My ILs are leaving in a week and that might be a reason for her to act like that. If she’s nervous now, when her parents are looking after DDs how is she going to handle the situation when she’ll have to drop off in the morning one DD to daycare and pick her up at the end of the day? I will do the same with the other DD but I am not complaining at all. She’s going to go completely crazy.
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Did we have the ILs talk yet?
LA
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No, we didn't. And If we don't have it today, then it will only be possible Saturday, Sunday or Monday. I will out of town on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. I have noticed again that my FIL is extremly nervous. He raised his voice again at my MIL yesterday afternoon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
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Is there any way of "hiding" my original thread so my WW won't find it anymore?
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I am in Detroit until Friday. WW is still in the fog and I am fed up. There was no discussion so far, ILs are leaving Tuesday but I don't think that there is much that can be done anymore. She's gone...
boby received by mail a survey from Holiday Inn. They were thanking the OM for his stay there on March 27. That was the day when my WW "went" downtown for training... When I think that I dropped her off that morning so she could take the downtown train... and then she called me at 5.30PM and asked me to pick her up at 6.00PM... And when I did she acted like nothing happened. How can she live with herself?
Anyways, I drove today to Detroit but I didn't call her after I checked in at the hotel and she didn't call either. She doesn't know when I'll be back home but I guess she could care less...
P.S. I've noticed that my old post is still being read. I wonder if both my WW and the OM are doing it. BTW, I chngned the usrename from adrianc to alfa_sz hoping that my WW won't find the post anymore...
Last edited by iknow; 04/19/06 09:53 PM.
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Last edited by happy2006; 04/19/06 10:43 PM.
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hey guys, I tried to post erlier but something went wrong with my computer. if you guy missed me I am still around, nothing to report.
IK, try and change the tread name as well.
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IK & H7,
I am so sorry...I remember that pain so well...finding out about the motel, in my case...when I read that line in your post, I spilled my tea all over the computer desk and floor.
I said a curse word.
I don't think it was for the cleanup.
Heart rips...
I have no words...only prayers for you both.
LA
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Deled quote by Baby? - Why?!??!? So what does this poster have to say? Anything of value or encouraging? L.
Last edited by Orchid; 04/20/06 03:22 AM.
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Orchid, - deleted by mistake - computer issues
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WW called me this morning but I couldn't answer since I was in the training class. I emailed her telling her the reason I could not answer. She send me a text message on my cell telling me that not answering her call was direspectfull and that as long as we live under the same roof I should answer her calls.
I stepped out of the training room and called her. No answer therefore I left her a message: "I am sorry I could not pick up the phone but I sent you an email explaining why I couldn't do it. Perhaps you should check your cellphone and see how many missed calls you have from me. I think we should talk when I get home because we cannot go on like this"
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IK,
Are there any other emotions you are experiencing besides anger? What's the primary emotion before this secondary one?
Can you pick up a book tonight, after training, to begin reading right away? Maybe tonight, on the plane...?
"Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend. All that I've been saying is in there...and I'm only to page 44. It is like reading all that we know here on MB, scripturally based, great stuff.
They write easily, very soothing, full of power and are gentle. Unlike me. I feel so excited that my ideas are validated...LOL...then maybe you'll know how God is working in your life, your family...and that it is his guidance which will come through for you, even if you feel you can't for you.
Hope your training is interesting and that you're staying awake. Your WW's text didn't need a response...but I might have said on a break..."I hear you believe I was being disrespectful by not taking your call during my training session. I know we've not had respect in our marriage and I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I would like to talk about this...and how I believe continuing an A is like ignoring a call because you have made something else a higher priority."
No tit for tat...like in yours. That invalidated her belief and created conflict. My way (which takes a change in beliefs to get to) doesn't. Validates both of you.
Only concerned about what you do to you, IK. In your corner, no attack...fervent prayer. Do something good for yourself today...get the book and dive in.
LA
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I am dissapointed and frustrated. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I feel that every day I am disrespected by my WW. Every single day. This life is nothing but one big lie. I don't have that book and, I drove to Detroit so I won't be able to read it on the road...
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