How did it feel to offer some really good common sense advice (which I found to be very noteworthy, by the way) and then be ridiculed for your fine effort?

kind-a sucks don't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Pep,

Could you direct me to the post in question?

"trust issues"

last page

very interesting

very interesting and valid points. I have never read that thread before.

Pep,

Keepmvn4rwd is a big boy and he has had his words thrown back at him on more than a few posts.

I am reminded of Mel's sig line.

yeah

he's a big boy and he's no fan of my posting or of Mel's either

but I found it interesting that even the most well-intended and seemingly non-threatening words can be turned around as if he had just slapped someone

just goes to show ya .... what? I donno <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A walk in the park. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My goal is and will continue to be to help SAVE relationships. That is my #1 goal.


Now, the part about not liking you and ML is not true. I do believe that both of you seem to be more interested in being right than getting more of these relationships back on track. I don't see either of you being flexible enough to realize that sometimes YOUR WAY does NOT always work, and in cases I have observed, has actually worked against the BS when just possibly (Is it possible I could be right on some of these people and not you or ML?)there IS a more effective,faster, and slightly different way to help.

Marriage Builders is great and has some very effective methods. I am on YOUR side, not against you. To be "radically honest" with you though, I have been studying relationships and how they work and what works to draw a person back into a relationship for YEARS, so I think I do have some credibility. Over twenty. With MUCH success. I follow what reality shows. Reality has shown me that the signature concepts at the end of my replies is what works BEST. You can plan A and Plan B until you are blue in the face, (and many do)but until one learns how to be happy with themselves, shows self respect and self esteem along with a quiet confidence, combined with no pressure to make someone love you is what really draws them back. This site has not convinced me otherwise. Part of plan A (or whatever term you want to call it) SHOULD stress those things. Emotional "needs" are important. I believe though that there is TOO MUCH importance placed on "needs", which causes the BS to feel like you can't live without them. That is a big mistake. If we get them to see that emotional needs are only PREFERENCES, and not "have too's, then we can get them to see that they can relax and realize they can be perfectly fine without them. I have needs. I have sex needs,but I view them as preferences. If my wife doesnt' want sex, ok fine. I would prefer that she would want it, but I CAN be just fine without it. It is a matter of how you choose to view these things.

Now, Plan B... I have seen it work. When I see it working I don't even reply on a thread. Why? Because my #1 goal is to save relationships. If plan B seems to be working, then why would I sabotage it? However, not all people can do it and even want to do it. I have seen many, many relationships saved WITHOUT a Plan B, and even when I have seen it work, many times it isn't the Plan B, but the illusion of finally letting go the WS perceives that suddenly wakes the WS up.So again, if you want to call it Plan B or whatever, then fine.

You can't force or pressure a person to love you by a bunch of rules and regulations. It doesn't work. It only keeps them away. How do you respond to a person pressuring YOU?
Would you follow Plan A and Plan B EXACTLY again if your husband had an affair?

That is the way I see some of the things that are constantly talked about on here. I see many trying to speak and say things for Harley that I am not always sure he always recommends. I have seen people ask him for advice and come back on here and the "veterans" have actually been surprised.

I should and will tell others if I see advice that isn't working and will not always sit back and continue to watch it not work. Watching people take 2 and 3 years or more and getting the same results doesn't seem to work. I don't care if it is the MB method, or whateve method. It should not take that long. If it does, then I believe the wrong advice was followed.

I think part of reason you think this is because you aren't real familiar with many MB principles and simply don't KNOW if they will work or not. You have no experience with this, after all.

You have to remember that Dr. Harley has been doing this for years and has saved many marriages. He is a professional with a PROVEN track record. You, on the other hand, have not saved ONE marriage and have no track record.

So, when it comes to saving marriages, I sure don't claim to be a professional, and I hope you don't either. Rather I defer to Dr. Harley's tried and true principles and the folks with salvaged marriages who have used them. That is what we all are here for after all, right? I will put his long experience up against your non-existant unprofessional "experience" and training any day of the week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Even so, I did like what you said on the "trusting issues" thread. Even though I think most of what you say is bad advice, you did get that one right.

agree ... no one thinks otherwise


depends on the person
I get pressured all the time by my patients
sometimes the pressure is legit ... sometimes not




You mean if he and another affair doncha? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Heck NO ... I'd follow plan Pep ... which for affair #2 means ... in the infamous words of the soup Nazi

NO SOUP FOR YOU

~~~~~~~ I am curious

are you really as dry and as humorless as you sound in writing, or do you have a secret silly side no one ever gets to see? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I take really serious issue with this. I've said it again and again and again on here.

Human beings have physical and emotional needs. Otherwise we would be robots.

Woe betide the employer who doesn't recognise his employees have emotional needs and don't just need a computer and an ergonomic chair.

Woe betide the parent who thinks it's enough to give their children a bed to sleep in and food to eat and clothes to wear.

Would you stay friends with someone who never considered what you might want or need from the relationship?

Why are marital relationships any different?

I just don't think you can call needs "preferences". They usually go very, very deep and are usually beyond our control. One of my needs, and it's very deep seated, and I think it's shallow and I hate that it means anything to me, is that my H is smartly dressed when we go out.

Perhaps with all of your "expertise" you should go and develop your own website, open multiple counseling centers and write numerous successful books on the topic...Until you have done these things and have aided in the saving of countless marriages, no matter how much of your own "credibility" that you are peddling, I am simply, NOT buying!

To be clear, the assertation that you are in a marriage that you believe has suffered no infidelity, and for the record I remain unconvinced of that, in no way, shape or form qualifies you as an expert on relationships or the recovery of relationships. What are you claiming qualifies you as an expert? Reading? Seriously, what qualifies as "MUCH success"? "Over twenty" what? Seconds? Minutes? Bananas? Monkeys? Marbles? What? Allow me to be "radically honest" with you by using the words of the ABC 20/20 news correspondent John Stossel, "Gimme A Break"!!!

Mrs. Wondering

Well I have to say, I liked Keepmovn's posts.

Whats wrong with a bit of diversity?

Whats wrong with stepp'in outside of the box?

Fright,Flight,FREEZE, Flow.

MB works, then... in some cases it won't. Then in some cases it won't- then it just might/ ****** perhaps it will or it might not or it should, no thats could!. Who know's? eh?

It all might sound like a similar story. It all might not.


There are other alternatives. Some of them just might just work too.- just like MB-or not.

Whatever your reasons are for being here keep an open mind.

Max

I like to be "open minded" to what works, personally, but thats just ME. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I might have some "alternative ideas" about brain surgery but do you think folks should follow my ideas? [I am a soft drink executive] After all, I do have a brain so I should know something about it, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Let's "step outside of the box!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yes you should Mel,

Shall I now address you as Mellow Mel? ow..

or Mountain Mel?..ow

Max

cute....

I know.

But lets be brave here, you know throw the gauntlet down and all.

I missed this place.

and all the crud, and hurt and the rest

Max

Jen, you said that so well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Keep, emotional needs are what they are needs . That does not give the WS permission to have an A of course but the needs of both spouses should be addressed in a marriage. It will not be a happy situation if one spouse is always the giver and the other the taker.

STOP and READ

I started this thread to pay keepmovin4wrd

a compliment

which he has yet to acknowledge

waiting .....

YOU'RE WELCOME !

repeating this:

pay keepmovin4wrd a compliment

and get this:



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

My intent was to compliment you .... now what?