you plagerizing tramp! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

NB:

Did you change all of your watches?

I just noticed that mine is still an hour behind...

do I know you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

HE11 IS KNOCKING AT YA DOOR, LITTLE LADY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

mimi, LOL, no, I hadn't! You either, or is that "neither", huh??? LOL Okay, now I don't feel so bad!! I have company!

Rather than go through the trouble of setting your watch...What you do is to..go around all day adding 1 hr. to the time on your watch....

Rationalize to yourself that this is good INTELLECTUAL EXERCISE.... a technique for preventing early dementia...

FOGGY THINKING?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BWHAAAAAAAAAA Mimikins

Actually makes perfect sense to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

We tried something similiar... we set all the clocks in the house ten minutes fast... you know all those crazy mind-games you play with yourself to get *there* (wherever there is) early, or right on time (I hate being late!).

For some unknown reason, the clock in the kitchen somehow got faster and faster... and pretty soon is was 23 minutes fast (Yes, I know it was 23 minutes because I'm anal and have far too much time on my hands lately). I wasn't aware of it until I had to stand outside in the freezing snow for 23 minutes waiting for a friend to pick me up...

So, I have turned over a new leaf. I know have clocks set for the correct time (or not at all, as evidenced by my watch story, above)... and somehow... some way... I have to live with it.

Although, I *do* like the idea of it being an INTELLECTUAL exercise ... perhaps I will go change my clocks again... to all different times... 23 minutes in the kitchen, 14 in the bedroom, you know... now *that* would be an exercise! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I already told you how I would handle it. My self esteem is not based on her loving me. You CAN NOT MAKE SOMEONE LOVE YOU. I WOULD NOT try and stop her from leaving. It is her choice. I won't share my love. Love doesn' work when it is shared. Don't try and turn this on me ForgiveandLove. How petty of you. I never said I would not be hurt, you are WANTING to find a way to discredit me instead of asking yourself if what I say could have any merit. I would survive. I am a big boy.


NO, I wouldn't stand for it. You obviously have a hard time understanding when a person like me has the self esteem to have boundries BEFORE something happens. Sorry you have a hard time wondering why someone would NOT tolerate infidelity. I have already made it clear to her what I would do. The choice to take the chance would be up to her.


I told you that I would probably be hurt by it. Does that make you feel better? You keep mistaking giving up or not giving up and loving or not loving, with what I would do. It has nothing to do with loving or not loving. It has to do with WHAT WORKS. Telling them you are not giving up only pushes them away. Why would I do something that would push her away if I love her? Again, if she would tell me she wants to leave, then I would tell her that I don't share anyway, and maybe it would be best that she leave. People who respond like that USUALLY get their spouse back because PRESSURE does not work. It actually works AGAINST you. So if pressure works against you, then why would I use pressure to make her stay? It is YOU that is making it more difficult to save your marriage by trying to tell me that you are fighting for it. It is only when the WS feels you will and can let go that you will have an OPPORTUNITY to have them come back ON THEIR OWN INITIATIVE. Guess who's choice it would be then? You are spending too much time trying to find fault with me and not enough time studying to see if anything I say has merit. You need to do some study on REALITY. I think you need to get your mind off of me and open your mind and ask yourself if what I say has merit. Does confidence have merit to you? Does self esteem have merit? self respect? Has pressure worked FOR you or against you? Does learning to be a happy person "just the way things are" in your life have merit? If not, then please go right past my replies on threads because we certainly don't agree, and I certainly don't think a person needs (there is that word again) to have gone through infidelity to give advice like that. Quite the contrary. Is it possible that I haven't gone through it because I am doing something RIGHT?



Same goes for you. Does that quote also apply to you? Since your marriage has NOT been as successful as mine, does that mean you CAN"T give advice to people on relationships becauses you have failed? Does that mean that Dr. Harley is in my shoes also? I don't recall that he has ever "been in all these people's shoes." You are being ridiculous and not thinking things through here. What it sounds like you are saying is that if a person has a great relationship that they shouldn't try and show others how to have one and that the only people that can give GOOD advice on relationships are those that have failed, or nearly failed, or are failing? You and I both know that is silly.


I get the picture. I will keep in mind not to give YOU any advice. I try to only give advice to a person one or two times, and if they don't seem to want it or don't seem to follow it, then I dont' waste one second more of my time giving it to them. You seem to fall into that category. I think you should get your advice from others that have gone through the same thing as you. (How is that for good advice huh?)

Good luck. Thank you for the feedback


P.S. Thanks Pep. I did know it was a compliment you paid me,but I think there was a duel message there for me also. I DO know how you women like to have us men "read" into what you say. I will focus on the "compliment" part though.

You know what is silly? The notion that someone who is not trained and who has NO EXPERIENCE in repairing a damaged marriage would have any idea how to do it.

That would be like a teetotaler going to AA and presuming to know how to sober up drunks just because "he has never drank." Now, wouldn't that be silly? How could he possibly know how to sober someone up if he had never been a drunk? Wouldn't you expect people to laugh at his arrogant presumption? They would.


Dr. Harley happens to be a trained PSYCHOLOGIST with years of successful experience in his MARRIAGE COUNSELING practice. He is a leading author of marriage books and has a radio show. Do you imagine you are the equivalent of Dr. Harley just because "he has not been in others shoes either." WOW. These are your credientials? That is amazing arrogance.

Just because you have not had marital problems does not mean you have the SLIGHTEST idea how to fix a marriage. Do you think since I have never had cancer that this qualifies me to counsel cancer victims? Of course it doesn't. The bottom line is that you have no experience. NONE. And this would explain why you routinely pass out very BAD ADVICE that is simplistic and completely fails to grasp the dynamics of adultery.

Methinks you are just a bored fella who has stumbled on a forum of very needy people and wants to FEEL needed whether he has anything to offer or not. The people here are in REAL NEED, keep, and need the benefit of tried and true Marriage Builders principles. That is what they come here for. Not for the "wisdom" of some dude on the internet who has no experience and no training.

HI,

Years ago before my husband's affair, I probably would have thought I could have given advice on how to have a happy marriage, which I thought I had - I'm sure a lot of people on here could have done the same. Everyone's marriage is different and what makes them happy is also different. I too, once said I wouldn't tolerate an affair by my husband. Wouldn't tolerate verbal abuse. But, once your spouse strays, it's a totally different story - your thoughts, views, logic, feelings are different. Mine are different than other spouses.

My husband and I didn't follow all the MB principles, but we did follow some, read a lot of self help things on-line and books and had MC. Many of the people on this site are going thru the same thing as we were - we all couldn't be wrong in our feelings, the advice, etc. - and like I said this is the best place to vent. No rules are set in stone - and not every rule is good for everyone. But, if something was working for us/me I surely would try it, especially if others have and it worked.

Keepmvn4wrd: For you information, my marriage is not a failed marriage - yes my husband made a mistake - yes, the biggest one of his life. Yes, I do get angry at him at times - the big obsticle in our lives was that he kept working with the OW - but that is history. That was what was hampering our recovery - this is one of the first rules on MB - NO CONTACT. But, in our case - I had to make things work with limited contact.

My husband never said he wanted to leave me - if he did want to leave, I would let him. I never pressured him to stay. Everyone has to do the best they can in the situation they have. Yes, I would fight for my marriage - it's worth it - And yes, you do have to fight for what you want sometimes. What you don't understand--- me saying fighting - the WS is totally screwed up in their head when they are in the affair and even afterwards. Not every affair ends in the WS saying I'm sorry, it's finished and then the couple loves each other happily ever after. Every couple is different - couples fight, disagree and still feel hurt - it doesn't mean that that marriage is doomed/failed. Many times only person is working on repairing the marriage.

Most of the times, the WS has to get back to reality - that's what I mean by fighting for your marriage - they have to be convinced the affair was a fantasy - that their marriage is worth it - that's reality. I would never throw over 20 yrs. away without giving it everything I had.

It's great you have a good marriage - and yes, I wish nothing would have happened to put a dent in my marriage - but you have to move on, forgive and heal - this doesn't happen overnight.

keepmovn4wrd,

Have you ever read anything by JL? He is a man on this forum who has helped COUNTLESS people ... and he has no direct experience, either. He's only been married for 30-something years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So, while I think it's *possible* to help someone when you haven't had the DIRECT experience, as JL has done, there are some marked differences in approach.

When JL first got here, he admitted to times of boredom and loneliness within his marriage, which I would guess MANY have felt, infidelity or not. He never said he knew it all... in fact, he said he knew very little. He was humble, and didn't say he had all the answers. He was HUMAN. He reached out to WS's, most of all; he listened and learned. But the thing I most appreciate(d) is this: He never once said that he was better, or his marriage was better (because it hadn't had infidelity) or that his way was better. He was just someone who cared and stuck around to help where he could.



I did this, too. Of course, being a sensitive person, I would be hurt when I'd put my opinion out there and it was stomped on, or ignored. What I've learned is that it isn't up to me to insist that someone listen and follow, or else. In fact, I'd like you to keep something in mind: When you write something, there are many, MANY more people reading what you write than the thread originator. Maybe something you say can affect someone you'll never see. Just something to think about.

To me, it isn't your lack of experience that's off-putting, as much as your attitude. You really come across as thinking you're better than those of us who've had infidelity in our marriages. Do you really think that? Because if you don't (and I'm hoping you really don't) then you really need to step back and take a look at what's happening here. Your words matter, and they can hurt, especially those who are vulnerable (which is about 90% of the people reading here, are).

I hope that you can live your entire life without being touched by infidelity. I would guess that more than half of the people who read and post here thought they had darned-near great marriages, and were surprised as he11 when *it* happened. I know I was. I pray it never happens to you, but sadly, only having it happen will allow you the opportunity to TRULY understand what it feels like... and to make the kinds of decisions that need to be made in the whirlwind of discovery. You never know what you'd do until it happens... as many of the hard decisions in life come into being. I truly believe that.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

geewillykins you make my head spin with this

don't know how to respond ...

'cept keep moving forward and have a wonderful life !

Pep (over & out)

And he never presumed to know MORE than Dr. Harley and didn't come here and confuse newcomers by giving advice that was contradictory to tried and true MB practices. He LEARNED the Marriage Builders program and has helped many others understand it. And boy howdy, does he understand it. He goes where angels don't dare tread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />