Hi pep

I love the way you are able jolt me back to my senses. I now can see clearly that I am still in the panic stage,... making fearbased decisions.....Badly in need to be brought back to my senses. And yes, need advice so bad. Thats why I am here..... a newbie

Went to a neighbourhood bookstore to get the book you recommend, out of stock, will check out another store.

Isnt self-respect similar to pride? I m a fairly young Catholic, baptised few years ago. We been seeing a church-affiliated MC. Pro-family..... encouraging me to obedient to God & stay faithful in marriage & pray.

You know, my inner self in such an emotional tug-of-war. The martyr in me screams... marriage vows...... spouse's salvation is my responsiblity..... be God's shepherd...be obedient child of God...be faithful wife....the kids

My pride/ego screams......how can you let H get away from this!......I deserve better......I am responsible for own happiness......what will others think?

Am hesitant to bring up religion thot may be sensitive, truly hope not & that I dont offend anyone.

I read Carrot & Stick thread & WOW exactly what I need. I m very dense of late..... have to read so many times just to let advice / instructions/ steps sink in. Slowly assimilating all new found knowledge..... Tomorrow will get better

You know, I quit MC cos getting nowhere. Now both of us attending marriage coaching together. But frankly, I get so much more practical actionable advice from MB, in particular your threads. Thanks

Judging by your elaboration of Plan A /B, I m now in Plan A. In last 1 week, managed to take stock of emotions, more sober & numb now & communications fairly warm... working on it. Some reciprocation from H yesterday. H starts to update me more daily activities & wrote me nice letter. I am firm on total sep still.

Truly believe need to heal myself, restore self esteem etc Whatever the outcome is, need to be a stronger person.

Your advice pls, believe I can better control emotions & prevent sudden outbursts if I communicate via letter instead of verbal. ok??? any downside?

Tomorrow can only be better.......


endofworld

Hi Kate

Cant offer any advice to you. I myself am not in the position to even handle own affairs.

Just cheering you on. Looking forward to July when OW exits for you.

Take care. Actually with all the support I m getting, I can now say "tomorrow can only be better" :-)

endofworld

Hi pep

hi hunny <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


I love the way you are able jolt me back to my senses. I now can see clearly that I am still in the panic stage,... making fearbased decisions.....Badly in need to be brought back to my senses. And yes, need advice so bad. Thats why I am here..... a newbie

most BS start out in almost the same shape you are in today ... no need to feel ashamed ... you have been traumatized !!!

Went to a neighbourhood bookstore to get the book you recommend, out of stock, will check out another store.

yeah, I forgot about it being an older book. try the library

Isnt self-respect similar to pride?

not at all

self respect means honoring what God loves about you rather than demeaning what God loves about you ....

pride is thinking YOU know better than God ... pride (in this sense) is the willfulness to go against God's word

I m a fairly young Catholic, baptised few years ago.

I went through RCIA 12 years ago ! My H had his 2 year EA/PA while I was studying the Catholic faith and ~he~ was my sponsor ~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

we are 10 years recovered by the way ... happy and joyful together ... it is a slow process ... but a good one

We been seeing a church-affiliated MC. Pro-family..... encouraging me to obedient to God & stay faithful in marriage & pray.

Okey-dokey

MC while he is still ~dating and whatever~ with OW is a waste of time ... and money ... but if it's free counceling .... why not? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You know, my inner self in such an emotional tug-of-war. The martyr in me screams... marriage vows...... spouse's salvation is my responsiblity..... be God's shepherd...be obedient child of God...be faithful wife....the kids

you are NOT a martyr

PLUS

being married to a martyr is a ~draaaaaag~

Unattractive and NOT sexy !!!

men do not want a martyr wife

trust me



My pride/ego screams......how can you let H get away from this!

been there
done that

spent plenty of time on my knees yelling at God about this ... my pridefulness was phenominal

......I deserve better......

you deserve a marriage free from infidelity .... but who doesn't? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am responsible for own happiness......

yes ... but more importantly

you are responsible for your integrity
without that integrity
happiness is an illusion

what will others think?

who gives a [censored]! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

just kidding

others statistically have experienced infidelity as well ... but you just did not know that until now



Am hesitant to bring up religion thot may be sensitive, truly hope not & that I dont offend anyone.

me offended ... no
I asked because it can be one of your tools
this journey you are about to take is a VERY spiritual journey



I read Carrot & Stick thread & WOW exactly what I need. I m very dense of late.....

betrayal-induced stupor ... I remember

have to read so many times just to let advice / instructions/ steps sink in. Slowly assimilating all new found knowledge..... Tomorrow will get better

it already is better

You know, I quit MC cos getting nowhere. Now both of us attending marriage coaching together. But frankly, I get so much more practical actionable advice from MB, in particular your threads. Thanks

ask away
this is a safe place where even all your dark thoughts and imaginary revenge plots can be discussed

I will tease you and/or scold you
comfort you
whatever you need

Judging by your elaboration of Plan A /B, I m now in Plan A. In last 1 week, managed to take stock of emotions, more sober & numb now & communications fairly warm... working on it.

being in control of the self is so important

and

it turns out self-control makes the betrayed so much more attractive

Some reciprocation from H yesterday. H starts to update me more daily activities & wrote me nice letter. I am firm on total sep still.

he's going to try sweet-talking
threats
sneakyness

.... don't take his lack of integrity at the moment as a reflection on you

it is him
he is lost
the one's who choose infidelity are very UNhappy and soul-sick

don't think he's content or happy or at peace

the affair is NOT a ~state of grace~



Truly believe need to heal myself, restore self esteem etc Whatever the outcome is, need to be a stronger person.

you are already getting started

initially the wound is just too life-threatening ... the pain just too unbearable

but you are quickly getting to the ~take control of myself~ stage

and there is power there
especially with God's help



Your advice pls, believe I can better control emotions & prevent sudden outbursts if I communicate via letter instead of verbal. ok??? any downside?

sometimes there is a downside ... but the written communication is usually MUCH better thought out ... and much less an emotional outburst .... I did that a lot when I was where you are



Tomorrow can only be better.....

today already is

Pep

PS

this.....



is crap

and worse

it is very prideful to imagine someone else's SALVATION is your department

unless I am mistaken ...

it is God's department !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hi pep

What can I say? You are like an angel sent by God to me.

So logical & sensible & truthful in your assessment of situation. Yet so comforting & encouraging & hope-giving.

You will never realise how key a role you play in getting me to accept the situation squarely & empowering me to realise the need to free myself from fear.

So much to read & digest from Carrot & Stick post. So thankful that you take the time & trouble to point me to so many encouraging posts.

Am certain many others like me will benefit from reading them. And I really think Carrot & Stick should be permanently at the top of the page.

Yes, today is already better & tomorrow will be fabulous. Wish I can change my name. It s certainly endofworld NOMORE. When I 1st posted, endofworld was most apt. Now I have found hope & strength & a mission.


endofworld (no more)....

Dear endofworldnomore,

I'm so pleased that you are feeling more positive. There can be good days in all of this.
You've spurred me on to read the carrot and stick stuff.
I am also a Catholic (RCIA 2000) and my WH just "joined", this Easter Vigil. What comic timing!
Please don't torture yourself with the self-respect/pride issue. For you WH this A is all about him. You are MORE than entitled to make your self - recovery about you.
I also have v bad days when I can feel myself "slipping" and would love to invite my WH back into my life, but I have also lived through this awful "sharing" business where he gets the best of me AND the OW and it sends me quite mad.
There will be terrible days (and nights) you might "slip", but the important thing is not to beat yopurself up. You didn't choose any of this, but you CAN choose to make it better. You aren't responsible for your WH's behaviours, but you can be responsible for your own.
You mentioned about what to do when you are feeling emotional in front of him. I have had to train myself not to talk. I just try and nod and smile, and keep repeating like a mantra "just smile and wave, smile and wave".
Save the reactions (if you can) for when you are alone and you can unpick them and what they mean without being under your WH's microscope.
Keep on keepin',
Kate xxx

Hi Kate

Thanks for cheering me on....... Yes, do read all of pep's Carrot & Stick..... Simply superb......... Like pep knows all my questions in my head & is answering them even without me asking.......

I tell u, the knowledge of what might come, like pep says all WS act almost according to a standard script, removes the unknown & the fear is reduced....... fear of unknown.

So pls read & read everyone of them..... some are just tongue-in-cheek but hey we need some humour to keep sane. I save them & read them over & over again. Each time I read, something else new strikes me & lifts me up for the day.

How're u? Acted on your plan B yet? u ok? Sometimes, I feel Plan B may actually be a release for us, from all the emotional abuse.........

love

endofworldnomore

I'm due to go Thursday.
We talked last night and rowed a bit and then made up.
I don't want to go, I feel closer to my WH every day, but I know that when he returns to work (Thursday) All my old insecurities will return, which will mean that my silences and sourness will return. So i have to go.
keep going,
Kate xxxx

Kate dear

My heart cries for you as I read above. I know exactly how you feel. Been forced against the wall, with seemingly NO CHOICE.

So sorry I am in no position to help yet makes matter worse for you sharing my empathy with you, sobbing for you aloud.

Pls do read pepperband's posts- Carrot & Stick of Plan A & new Plan B. I have been doing all wrong prior to MB. All the proven techniques are so new to me. I'm learning & applying

Pep's posts say no need to announce either Plan A or B, no need to give it an official start date. I've been announcing (actually threatening) far too much before this, really cry wolf & guess WH been taking all with a lake (not a pinch) of salt. Pep stresses on the swiftness of all actions.

I cant advise you, only thing I can say is read Pep's posts & digest & apply. They are almost like the bible to me.

Do take care, I will pray for us & others in same situation

endofworldnomore

Dear EOWNM (Endofworldnomore)
Pep's posts are brilliant and make perfect sense.
I am being friendly, nice, calm and am getting lots of reassuramce and love in return.
It's just that I've done this for a year, I almost thought we were out of the woods, although admittedly and WH admits this too, we had slipped back to normality (boredom) and then he wrote to OW.
I think NC is the only way forward. In that time we can both read, learn, think, attend counselling together and grow together in a way I don't think we ever have before. He has even "joined" this forum, although I don't know his "name". In the past a "quick fix" of sex would draw us together for a couple of days but then we would get back to our sepearte lives and live parrallel as flatmates. This is what we have to try and eliminate.
Have you (as if you have time!) tried to think about what was missing for YOU as well as for WH in your sitch? I thibk that this is the crux for me.
It's all very well meeting WH's EN's during plan A, but I know deep down, and maybe you do too that there was something missing for me too. Are you the same?
My problem is I can't find what it is. I'm thinking and thinking and the more I think the less I feel it is about WH and the more it is about me.
Thanks so much for writing back. Please let me know how you are doing. I remember the rawness and lightning quick emotional changes near the beginning of exposure. I really burn for you. I'm praying for you.
And about the kids. Don't beat yourself up. We all do it. I always apologised and explained that they were being annoying, but that I was overreaxcting because I was "tired" or "sad". It's all you can do.
Kate xxx

Ladies

do not leave out the kindness of the STICK of Plan A

EXPOSURE is required if you are going to do an excellent Plan A (read-and re-read about exposure as part of Plan A)

KEEP all affair evidence in a safe place (get your own safety deposit box ...I did)

and continue to EXPOSE where appropriate

Remember

you are a WELCOME mat ... NOT a door mat

Pep

PS ...I'll work on the Plan B thread a bit later ...

during Plan A

treat the kids to some silly fun

picnic in the house

make blanket tents and let them "camp out" on Saturday nite

sing songs and butcher the lyrics

eggs and pancakes for DINNER

ALERT their SCHOOLS *teachers* and *principal* ~and~ *guidance councelors*~ IN WRITING (send all of them identical letters) that there is a serious MARRIAGE crisis at home and the kids need some special attention. Don't say "affair" outright ... but most of them will put 2+2 together ... and send some love your way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
TELL the grandparents EVERYTHING about the affair ... and ask that they step in when Mommie needs a break for some self pampering ... or whatever.
Pep

Thanks pep.
Will read and digest everything overnight.
(overday for you!)
Thanks for responding, you sure do speak som common sense.

Hi pep

Think I am doing fairly ok, making every encounter warm tender, but my Plan A lacks EA.

I did read Worthatry's posts on exposure, pros & cons. In my case, with WH's father having only 2 to 3 months to live, I really cant bring myself to do so. For my own family, figure wont help much. Also want to spare 70 year old mum from agony of knowing & not being able to help.

None of the threads re exposure mentioned involving the kids. My kids are in the know & WH asked for 1 more chance in front of the kids (11 & 14). WH said his previous promise to break with OW is different from this time cos WH made the commitment witnessed by his own kids..... I dont know what's real, what's not anymore..... that's what he says.

And WH went to see our parish priest, he invited me along, but I didnt, thot he should have some personal space especially when meeting a priest. Priest, also a family friend to not just WH & I but also the kids, reminded WH to think for the kids & give them a complete family........

So much for exposure for my case. If I am not doing good enough here, hope I am able to make up for it elsewhere like the heartwarming encounters.

endofworldnomore

Is OW married or does she have a child or a family you are aware of?

Pep

OW told me she's separated. No kids. OW married a divorcee, cheated on him (with someone else before WH) & got separated. Really dont know if OW had a part to play in her own H's divorce.

Heard from WH OWH is seeing someone else but cos OW is great asset in their biz, separated but not divorced

endofwordnomore

... and this is valueless reassurance ... he made a promise to YOU with his marriage vows

and he is still discussing his "day of decision" ... so his promise in front of the kids is hogwash ...

ALL F'd up alien brained adulterors try to whitewash the ugliness about their dirty deeds by holding themselves up to a strange fun-house mirror which gives a distorted self-reflection >>> "I'm not so bad ... I took a promise in front of my kids."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> pfft

Find OW's H and expose to him ... right away!

don't worry about "what good will it do" ... just do it

Pep

Ok will read up on exposing, how to do it right. Dont want to blow it, u know. Tomorrow research. I may not have contact number, but can get address, can either pay him a surprise visit or write. But writing is so slow..... Patience is never my virtue. So may stalk out at his place

endofworldnomore

I vote EXPOSE in person whenever possible!