i seem to have sort of lost my way....everything was pretty good until about january....

i recently went through a nasty legal issue with my XW and XMIL over some past money issues that i became responsible for as a result of community property issues....and it brought out some extrmre emotions of hate, to be honest....my blood pressure was sky high and i was letting my situational stress get the best of me....

i soooooo know that my X traded down...way down, but that dosent stop some of the jealousy and envy that surfaces every now and then.

my X and i went through a para-legal for divorce, i aggreed to giving her our house, ALL the equity, in excahnge for 100% of my retirement, my 457 plan and VERY minimul child support. i get the kids 50-50 and joint legal/physical custody.....the preservation of my retitrement was HUGE!!!! anyway..............

our seperation occurred in 12/03, we filed for D in 2/05 and it settled in 9/05. in 2/05 she made some overtures, which were way less than 100%, she was testing the waters and in 8/05 she tried again...same story.

both times, i wasnt interested, NOT because i still didnt love her, even after everything, but because i didnt TRUST her....my pride and self-esteem was intact by this time.....but TRUST is HUGE, and i was kinda living a lifestyle that was "fun", although irresponsible at times...(more on this later if need be)

our divorce finalized in 9/05, which was one of the hardest days of my life BTW...i tore me up. she married he BF 3 weeks later....

they sold his condo, our old house and bought a MILLION dollar pad with the equity... ( i live in SoCal, so you can imagine the equity)

in march, they had there HUGE wedding reception, they married in a private cerimony in Tahoe, then had party 5 months later....spent over $20,000 im told...

here in lies my problem....I GOT JEALOUS...I GOT ENVIOUS....and then i GOT MAD!!

she invited family, which are still loyal to me, and some "old" friends that i thought "were my friends" and THEY WENT!!

i was having a real hard time with getting over my "emotions" and found this site by accident. since mid-march i have learned alot of stories and watched as people have gone through the same emotions and problems that i went through.....its quite eye opennig to say the least...

i am not angry at my X for leaving me, im well beyond that, as a matter of fact, ive been in a LTR for the past year with a WONDERFFUL woman, yes.....God takes care of stupid people....im living proof....

anyway....i need to truely forgive myself....that may sound odd, but i have some regret and guilt over maybe not trying hard enough...although, i look back and there really wasnt anything else i could have done....SHE even filed for D, i just aggreed...(i didnt know about MB)

i feel guilty for failing my children....im not sure if that makes sense, but thats where my guilt lays....

i read the Bible, i talk to God daily...he has blessed me beyond ANYTHING i probably deserve, but......the forgiving of myself, and in effect truely fogiving my X, thats my struggle right now....

i read alot, and have read several self help books, but a quote by Vince Lombardi kind of sums up my journey so far...

""Dealing with hardship may seem like an "odd technique" for self discovery: We rarely go out in search for hardship, pain, trauma or heartbreak. However, they often come in search of us, and when they do,they can provide invaluable learning experiences. In the presence of boundless, UNBEARABLE PAIN-the loss of a loved one, ones health, or family-we experience a sense of powerlessness and recognize that there are things we simply cant control, that we become open to profound learning. In the face of great pain, when perhaps for the first time in our lives we are forced to admit we dont have all the "answers", we can begin to ask the right "questions". PAIN (of any type) is a powerful centering force. It pushes us where GOOD TIMES ALMOST NEVER LEAD. As we suffer, we grow wiser.""

yes....i am a little wiser, i have a few lines on my face that have been hard earned, some gray hair...but looking back, I KNOW i made the right decision not to return to my WW, in my heart i know, i had sense learned this was not the first A she had had, but....that dosent change my sense of failure in some way of my part as a husband and father...

my current relationship with my kids is GREAT...BETTER than when we were a family, i have taken a hard look at my life and made some SERIOUS changes, that would not have come about absent the affair and subsequent divore....

I KNOW my XW still loves me, and has REGRETS, she has asked for forgiveness several times...i say it, but my heart with holds it (does that make sense)

anyway...

ive been a cop for over 20 yrs, so i have been around alittle...i have seen some things in my life and done things that have molded me, jaded me, made me calous and hard....now ive spent the last several years trying to "undo" some habits and personality traits.....i am very good at "hating", im learning to truely LOVE and forgive...

im not sure if this puts anything into perspective for you...but thats what im kinda lost with....ive re-kindled some deep anger issues with my X, and i really dont like the way im feeling...its kinda like i "stagnated" and i need to understand this before i can truely move on and take the next step in my life, whatever that may be...i really believe im over the betrayal itself, in a sense...i understand that life is not fair, heck...i see that everyday, and my life is very well off right now, considering the divorce and all,

it may sound strange, but i really dont care whether my XW ever "suffers" or falls upon hard times, (i used to pray hard that this would happen BTW) im almost at the point that i want her to BE HAPPY...that way she will leave me ALONE....

but...its just the jealousy that turns to anger sometimes over the stupidest things....i have a woman that absolutly is in love with me, treats me better than i had been even in my M, but i still sometimes get envious or jealous over X

maybe if you have some thoughts on this....

Sturgis

stick your face out and get ready for your slap back. j.k.

sounds like your XW was your 1st true love. atleast you have found someone else who loves you, i belive its part to due w/ you having hopes to give her that mill dollar house and giving her that big wedding.

i understand where you are coming from as far as the anger im still pissed cause of the whole XH thing w/ my W.

i think there may always be that little anger cause we wheren't able to give them what they wanted and someone else did.

but then what the h*** do i know. just be glad you have someone to love you now. its also cool that you have done alot of self improvement. do loose what you got w/ the new lady in your life cause your busy being angry.

on a side note how soon after the split did you start dating.

Yep, bad things happen to good people.

Also - time wounds all heels.

Sounds like you wanna play "what if" a bit too much.

But yea, it sucks when "friends" apparently endorse the union by attending a wedding. But you don't know what was going through their minds when they were watching. Married 3 weeks after a divorce? Hello? Can you say "hypocrite"? Why get married when being married meant nothing?

I suggest you pour this energy into your new relationship. Not doing so may jeopardize it.

Let it go.

You won, man! She remarried 3 weeks after your divorce - after failing to reinterest YOU!! She's the one that "settled."

She had no other option. Any port in a storm.

JMHO

I understand this completely, and it is the beginning of healing/personal recovery. The first and most important step, but after which all healing flows relatively easily.

2long, another poster and very wise man, has had a journey in forgiveness of his own and I hope that someday when he is around he will talk to you about this.

I fell in love with a greay guy not too long ago, but because he had not done the inner work, the forgiveness work we had to terminate our relationship. I was crushed to say the least, and then angry thay he had been so irresponsible in not undertaking this journey before getting involved with me.

So I applaud you, for searching, for asking these questions.

Good luck Sturgis!

Sturgis - read this again from weaver:

Now read again what I said above:

OK?

WAT

Do both your inner forgiveness work and concentrate on your R.

WAT,

You have happy succesful R right now, but I believe you did this work first. You did not get into an R right away, and you felt that you had done EVERYTHING you could do to save your marriage, so you had very little unfinished inner business.

However Sturgis, by his own admission does not fall into the same category.

Hi weave - yes, correct.

Whether I planned it this way or not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I had the good fortune to wipe my slate clean before Ms. Right came along.

This doesn't mean I don't have emotional residue from the bad experiences - just that the artifacts don't have significant negative influence any longer.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
WAT
----------------
Embrace your inner fish.

Good morning, Sturg...

Sounds like you really have done some soul searching...a lot of coping...and have begun learning some important living skills...

One of which is...that your emotions are signals to you about your beliefs...and that to skip over the anger, jealousy, envy, hate, resentments is just tripping your own growth. Great lesson. Maybe you should really get it into your belief system, because you have this competing belief: "a real hard time with getting over my "emotions". If emotions are to be gotten through, over or around, then they are in your way of living, aren't they? Stress factor, something to deal with or manipulate...doesn't sound growth oriented to me. Humans are often told to get over it...and therein is where we fall prey to our own old beliefs, living from them today for what happened in our childhood. Replace that belief...the getting over one, with your new one...which I believe is "getting to the bottom of"...dectect your way from the emotion back to the belief.

"i really dont like the way im feeling...its kinda like i "stagnated" and i need to understand this" If we liked all of our emotions, we would still not like some as much as others, ya think? Your feelings intensify the more they are ignored because they really are traffic lights. They want you to do what you're doing...stop and pay attention...trace them to your beliefs.

Such as, "My life is better now in many ways...if it is better, I wouldn't be feeling these surges, would I?"

The judgments are key...giving yourself permission to judge others gives you permission to judge yourself. Guilt is not meeting other people's expectations; shame is not meeting your own. Look at your expectations and see if they are reasonable...again, they come from our beliefs, also.

Ready for the next one?

The difference between Envy and Jealousy...Envy is when you want something in you like what you see in another person...either possession, personality, etc. Jealousy is when you want something someone else has and you only want you to have it. Both are about you, not her. Figuring out which one is important...one denies the other (which may be the signal) and the other doesn't.

So...you've led a life of judgment...both personally and professionally...there's a tough trap for you. You even used the life's not fair reality play...a belief you have which feeds you negative emotions because to have that belief means you gave yourself permission to judge fair, not fair; rather than real, not real.

I know you know the difference.

Part of grieving, which is what you're doing...and need to do so more consciously, is knowing what you're grieving...loss of a marriage, a real entity, that has passed away. When something dies/leaves us (signals are virtually the same), I believe we grieve because others take pieces of us with them...if that is a hidden belief of ours. If it isn't, if we know we remain whole but changed by the loss, then our grieving becomes more real, gets us to the last stage, acceptance, and stays there.

Sturg...could you be feeling part of yourself missing? When expectations mix in with beliefs, then we have a hard time knowing others cannot take parts of us with them...we lived through them and thought that kept them with us. It was, Sturg, what broke the marriage apart. You've been learning to live through your own eyes, definitions and choices. Strong medicine. Your beliefs haven't caught up with you yet...they are still triggering jealousy, anger, envy, from your wishfulness...which harden into an expectation that this death didn't need to happen.

And you're correct...like a child is...no, it didn't need to happen, but it did happen. You were only half of it; the other half was out of your control.

Look at how you reason, Sturg...you have a new love, fulfilling and somewhere in you, equates with moving on, recentering your life on another person, no longer fearing being left alone as you once did...deep inside...still the negative triggers. You learned people are not replaceable. Even as we are all separate and equal, our lessons for ourselves and each other are unique...this new belief is causing a bit of a wave in you...not wanting life to be this way...and you may feel it chaining you to your X without even knowing your own belief is doing it. You are not, she is not...your new SO is all her own, not to be compared or measured in anyway. Nor you.

All this is normal growing pains, Sturg. They are not soul-splitting, but still noticeable. Make a list of your beliefs...that bad people have bad lives (you may know better in your head, but your belief system has this one)...what goes around comes around...and when it doesn't, it's a rip off...

Look at how many times you judge in your post:

"everything was pretty good"
"a nasty legal issue"
"my X traded down"
"she made some overtures, which were way less than 100%, she was testing the waters"
"and THEY WENT!!"
"and found this site by accident"
"God takes care of stupid people....im living proof..."
"he has blessed me beyond ANYTHING i probably deserve,"
"I KNOW i made the right decision not to return to my WW,"
"...i have seen some things in my life and done things that have molded me, jaded me, made me calous and hard....now ive spent the last several years trying to "undo" some habits and personality traits.....i am very good at "hating", im learning to truely LOVE and forgive..."

"..ive re-kindled some deep anger issues" Ownership is what you're doing now, and a step toward changing how you believe...life doesn't make you jaded, callous, hard...you choose. That's your power. Judgment and resentment give rise to those feelings...you create both of them...and have the power to not create and to release the ones you've created.

"i feel guilty for failing my children....im not sure if that makes sense, but thats where my guilt lays..."

Guilt or shame? Guilt not living up to what you believe is their expectations or shame to your own? Do you often have a let down feeling from believing you failed? Choose your perspective, Sturg...embrace your human limits...they are there for a reason...a healthy reason. If you are not looking at what you are doing (which can also be accomplishing or succeeding), and acknowledging it, then you won't be looking at what your loved ones are doing and acknowleding it, either. Two way street. When you shift your focus to what you are doing, like this post, then feeling less than or self-disappointment stops because your focus is no longer on what you didn't/couldn't/wouldn't (hence "shouldn't) do...which we've been taught is failure.

"but i have some regret and guilt over maybe not trying hard enough...although, i look back and there really wasnt anything else i could have done....SHE even filed for D, i just aggreed...(i didnt know about MB)"

You did what you knew how then; now that you know better, you do better. Self-forgiveness doesn't come from comparison, judging your way to it. It comes from knowing the fact that you and everyone else on the planet are equal and separate...you alone have your choices; as do others. You know by the field you are in, no one is safe from pain...and most of that pain is generated within, not without. Open yourself up to being truly human, Sturg...no more "I was stupid to not know...or to believe what I did" because you are again choosing the perspective of anti-acceptance...to reject yourself, therefore, you will reject others. Forgiveness can become like a breath...the way God does it...when you change your beliefs and permissions. And you will still learn and grow. No thrashing required.

Stay fully present, acutely aware and watch your blood pressure drop. No more going around your feelings or stuffing them down because of what you "shouldn't" be feeling...take down the clues. Everyone is on their own journey, including your children...do not hold onto resentment to use as a stick against yourself or others. This is your power of choice...Own that you create our own pain because you were taught that pain was your teacher...so you would remember. We all remember, anyway...we won't be safer beating ourselves to be safer.

Stay present, Sturg. With what you have in the present. Do that resentment timeline...really look at how creating resentments pays you off, and change those beliefs.

LA

LA
you have some serious knowledge wow, where were you 6 months ago when my marriage was still good j.k.

saenz...thanks for the slap...feels good dont it!! (ha) ..i started "dating" WAYYYY too quickly....almost like a RETALIATION affair...it was about trying to make my X jealous....i look back and would NOT do the same mistakes...but....i DO believe that you still need companionship and company...im very much a "herd animal", not a loner...i just would slow down alittle.

i started boozin hard, hanging in bars and "dated" alot...i believe it set me back rather than help in the long run, buts it how i coped at the time....

to give you a time that i felt i was clear minded enough to
"DATE" without the un-healthy side effects, took me about 9 months to a yr after i had been living on my own....(im not sure if this answered ur queston)


LA,

where do i start...i think you had some incerdible insight, although it may take 2-3 readings before i can digest some of it...

its funny, i was surfing this site late last nite and started reading the (motarman--sitchrep) and he had some insight and a really different way of looking at his current situation...he was THANKFUL now...

i tried to look at it that way, and it really is a refreshing way to view things...being THANKFUL...

i work graveyard so i just woke here in Cali, not 5 minutes after i got up, my phone rang and it was my teenage daughter...she called to "say hi!" and tell me about her day...how do you put a price on that???

i do know, that without this divorce, i would not be the father/parent i am today...i have changed my priorities and have grown soooo much in that area...thats the main and MOST important one in my mind...

i do need to think what am i "jealous or envious" about...because it seemed for a long time, i wanted retribution of some kind from my X...thats the anger part of me....BETRAYAL sucks....

but now, i really do want to forgive, i know i made mistakes in my marriage that left my X very vulnerable for her affairs, (thats a whole nother story!)...

since the divorce, i have a relationship with God, that would have never happened unless i had gone through some very dark times....

i actually made an appt. with my therapist who i havent talked to in a LONG time, so thats gonna be a "good times" catching up!!...

but, since i been surfing this site, i see alot of the sruggles and pain that so many people have and are enduring, and i do feel alittle shame over how i handled my break-up, maybe thats what caused some feelings of remorse to set in....

i came out of this pretty good, considering the path i started down when the affair broke, WOW...looking back now, i dont even recognized that old person...thats a good thing!

but you gave me alot of things to consider....

but, how is it that one controls the "negative" triggers????

i can use reason and see how reality works, but you are right about, i do judge "right/wrong....fair/unfair"....

see, im trying to really take stock of my life and make some changes that "I" know i need to make, that without the "bad" things that happened, nothing would have caused this sort of "self discovery" journey...

You already showed in your previous post you got it...with the Lombardi quote, the way you viewed your life...only with the gift came a surprise...feelings of resentment, jealousy, envy...anger.

So you had the expectation to love the dark, terribly painful gift? Tough for a human to do...as WAT & the weave said, takes time. To fully realize it, embrace and heal your part of the betrayal...the belief you betrayed yourself...you didn't prevent it from happening, didn't see it or stop...cause, control or cure it. Goes to image...calling yourself stupid...believing in deserving and those who do not deserve...and unravelling that will bring you peace.

Because it's all in you. You're gonna be fine...balanced and joyously alive...and finally know you're whole...all worth that, don't you think?

LA

i started reading a book called "wild at heart" by john eldridge....its a christian centerd book about getting your life back in balance...very eye opening!!!

puts things in perspective....but as life goes...talkin the talk is easy...walking it...thats the hard part

i find it kinda frustating tho...im have always been very much in control of my own life....its when it "spun" out of control...thats where i started losing it...

ya kno, i read alot of these site and i KNOW human nature is very predictable and every story kind of mirrors each other...its like I know what i need to do...just have a hard time doing it...

someone wrote, its like a doctor being his own doctor...(does that make sense?)

sturg i said doc being his own doc. hey i've had a great day today i've stayed busy 2 nite now its tv time oh yeah i need a couple more days like this one and i'll be good or so i hope.

We all get lost inside the complexity of being human...and it's stunning simplicity.

"i find it kinda frustating tho...im have always been very much in control of my own life....its when it "spun" out of control...thats where i started losing it..."

You have had a belief you control your life...until you didn't control it anymore. I believe you had false limits...didn't know where your control truly ended...maybe because you recognized you could only control you...but saw your influence on others. We have influence...what an A teaches us, is that we only have influence we others allow our influence.

That's eye-opening. That's cold water on a sleepy face. Reworking our life, we usually find our main parent figure handing us our first belief...that we make them...happy, sad, love, angry, fatigued, etc...we are tiny packages of God, aren't we? Creating all this in these really big humans (at the time)...and we have to work our way back to know...that wasn't truth, only perspectives handed down...and down...and down.

You really nailed something with the doc being his own doc, as saenz said...(and by the way, it wouldn't be where was LA 6 months ago, but where was saenz! See, it takes us what it takes us to get here, learn and grow...and you're here, and that makes all the difference)...

You're a cop. To be a cop, you have to believe you can protect and serve...what if that is like the first beliefs you were handed down...and not possible? Our desire to be protected serves humanity, and tears it apart...anything to an extreme. One of your issues may be the inner belief that you knew better, had seen it all, and still it came into your marriage...and you could not protect, prevent or remove it.

Examining that believe will get you where you want to go...and are nearly already there. If you believe humans are vulnerable, and you're human, then how can you be a cop? Balancing those beliefs will bring you peace, self-forgiveness...and you'll find out, the rest is easier than it is now.

You can do this...you're in this state of clarity and focus...share all this with your LTR...how about SO? Your children...your gratitude IS awareness of all that is present in your life...have faith in yourself. You are doing this...

LA

youve given me a much different perspective than i had before....i look at things in a very simple minded way at times...not necessarily black and white, but i tend to live in the gray area...(with many "shades of gray") at times....

i have a mtg with my old therapist tomarrow afternoon...i plan to share some of your perspectives...

i must be brutally honest, it was not until i started conversing and really getting involved in this site that some of these feeling or emotions were rekindled....i had put the bandaid on them (so to speak) and let pride or whatever prevent me from taking a HARD look and realize i still had some "un-finished" work left to do...

i had been feeling kinda "out of balance" latley and it was really wierd, i have really been affexted in a surprising way by alot of the stories and suffering that everyone is going through, at whatever stages they are in, myself included....

LA,

you have given me alot to digest and think about...

thank you.

hey LA,

went to therapy and shared some of the things we talked about...therapist thought you were right on the money...

we talked about "envy", which is a natural human emotion and considering where im at in my recovery, its pretty normal....

i gotta scram, but ill share some other thoughts later...

thanks again!!

Cool beans on the update...glad you're not hearing contradictory stuff.

And I think therapist meant YOU'RE right on the money...and then you had to pay him/her.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, that book I'm nuts about? Boundaries in Marriage? Well, it talks about ENVY and JEALOUSY...no kidding. I thought of you today on that page...right after I thought of me...

Gotta get that book, Sturg...see ya soon!

LA

heres a thought i wanna throw out, its 11:30 in Cali and i just got out of the jacuzzi with my GF, daughter and her BF....and its like that old song..."what a wonderful life"...anyway...

i went to my therapist today and in talking to her, we talked about envy, covetesness(sp) and forgiveness...i told her although i still have resentment towards my XW and the betrayal that happened, .....this is what she keyed in on.....i said, "i really dont care anymore if something bad happens to her or her relationaship with OM fails"....she picked this comment and said that this is really a step towards true forgiveness...forgiveinga "debt" so to speak...

she no longer "owes" me....i thought, wow....this does make some sense....because although envy and resentment are normal human emotions, when you start to "release" someone of their debt, then forgiveness and healing start to take place...the envy and resentment will also pass in time....(does this make sense)???

also, i told her i had discovered MB's and that i had actually learned so much in the past month about affairs and the pain that we all go through, regardless of the stages we are in....but one thing that has kind of stood out in my mind, is that numerous people have been posting and involved in the site......for years.....

i guess im wondering...does the pain ever "really" go away and do you ever "really" heal, if so, why do so many people stick around for so long....

i DO not mean this in ANY judgemental or belittling way...im just trying to understand the healing process...

i kinda relate to it in this manner.....

i took a bad turn early on in my seperation, and really hit the booze and bar scene HARD, so much so that several of my friends worried about me....i had a "fear" so to speak that i would sink into a lifestyle of a "bar fly" or regular...that my life would revolve around that scene and that would become a part of my identity......

i say that to ask this..(does that make sense?)

when do you know, if you ever do, when you are healed or if forgiveness is from the heart....do you feel different??? or do you just turn cold and stop caring????

it was a great day today....not sure why im rambling on...