Help! I'm looking for insight. Especially from FWW. I'm trying to understand my wife. I have not exposed and I'm not going to at this stage. I just want to understand her. D-day was 4 weeks ago. OMW knows. Threw him out of the house 4 weeks ago.

Please read below and offer any insight. Thanks!!!!

First off I'll say that I've been working Plan A since about a week after D-day. And it's working! I can see that I’m attracting her back into the marriage. And away from the OM. Per MBs I am hung up on NC. I feel like I need to set boundries for myself. To date W has not show remorse for the affair, has not owned up to any part she played in contributing the the pre-affair environment, etc.

I asked W point blank for NC today. She said it's impossible because she works with him and has to talk to him. I asked for NC other than what's mandatory for work. She says that she talks to other product managers outside of work. I asked if she had affairs with any of them - she laughed because she knew I'd busted her logic.

Anyway she says that she can't NOT communicate with him as long as they work together. Says that they don’t talk often and when they do it's ONLY about work. Nothing inappropriate. Nothing romantic. They don't talk about each other. He's not trying to win her back, etc, etc. The affair is over she says. Says she's told him that she wants to work it out with me. I put a voice recorder in the car but I have not yet caught a conversation between WW and OM. She tells me I need to focus on something other than the very narrow topic of NC. Says I'm obsessing about it. Which I am. Wrote her a long letter yesterday trying to outline how I felt about her being in contact with him. Tried to share what it was like for me to be on this side of the affair. Also told her that the affair was not my fault. It was a very carefully written letter. No LBs.

She never came out and told me that the affair was over. That she told him it was over. She said that she thought I would know that because she's going to counseling with me, crying with me, being loving to me. She said she wouldn't be "here" with me - not physically but emotionally - if she didn’t want to rebuild. I told her I needed to hear those words and why did they have to come from her under duress?? She said that everything in the marriage has been on my terms including this. She said that I've just discovered something golden - our marriage - which she knew was golden all along. And that I can't expect her to be as gung ho about putting it back together as I am. It's very true that I was a bad husband to her. Resented her, didn't want to be married to her, fell out of love, etc. Hence the affair. I've owned up big time to my role in the desruction of our marriage.

At one point in the (heated) conversation she said something about me not earning "it". I asked what "it" was later and she said to forget that she said that. I asked her if "it" was respect. She told me to drop it.

So I guess she's still angry at me? She's not really talking much. Doesn't talk much in couseling - the MC has made it very easy for her and hard on me which may be deserved. MC said that she waited for me for so long now I need to be patient and wait for her. He's got a point. Although he's putting NO pressure on her at all. I kind of see what he's doing. He's helping me attract her back into the marriage. Helping her feel safe. I had all the power in the marriage for so long. It looks to me like he's trying to shift the power. Because squeezing her about the affair would put power back in my hands?

I don't know. I'm confused. All I know is that I love my wife and I want us to start building together. And it kills me that she works the with OM. She's agreed she needs to change jobs but it won't happen soon. Even though we're being sweet and loving to each other I feel distant from her a lot of the time. She's not sharing a lot of her feelings.

Any insight would be appreciated. I know that true recovery cannot begin until NC but what do I do until then?????

Unless WW or OM changes job I see no chance of recovery. You'd be fooling yourself to believe otherwise. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's the truth!

Moreover, you cannot trust and untrustworthy person, and notwithstanding your wishful thinking, your WW is not trustworthy right now.

And until the A is over, i.e., where all contact ends, you are wasting your money in counseling.

The real question is are you willing do what it takes to protect yourself and to give your M a chance.

MDC,

The biggest reason that newbie BS's give for not following MB principles is because their " WS and their situation is different ". Sorry,but it is all the same, just the names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Look at the last line of my sig. I think it explains your actions exactly.

Best of luck.

You need to have her quit her job or find another one ASAP. What is more important her job or your M?

I would give her two weeks or less to find another job or insist that she quits.

Regrettably, leaving her job (or OM leaving the job) is one of the consequences of her A.

My $0.02

What do you do in the meanwhile? You Plan A while being clear of your boundaries.

So while I'm doing Plan A - and I'm still not 100% sure what it is, I've heard there is a good Plan A letter somewhere - do I confront her with evidence of contact? Let her know I know in an effort to stop it? I'm calling the OMW tonight to see if she can help - though he's not living there so not sure what she can do.

Or do I just forget about NC and stand by my request for her to find a new job. She can't be out of work due to our financial situation. So she's going to have to look for a job while she's working. And I just don't see her doing it. Especially since she thinks I'm the reason why she has to find a new job! And that she thinks it's me trying to control her. "It's always been all about you" she says.

Do I look for job leads for her? Not sure what to do.

Why aren't you exposing??? I don't understand???


Plan A includes exposure...without it, you are NOT doing a true Plan A...NO, your way is NOT working, what it is doing is allowing her to cake eat...She is being nice to you to insure that you do not mess up her affair...So, what's happening here is that her "Plan Affair" is working on you...Of course she is not taking any of the blame or showing remorse, her choices have had no consequences...Yes, NC should most definitely be a boundary for you, without it, she will NOT properly withdraw and Recovery is IMPOSSIBLE!!! You would also be wise to remember that you can't just pick and choose what MB principles you feel apply to your situation...that's "cherry picking" and it does not work...It is a VERY NARROW path...all or nothing...


She MUST leave her job...DO NOT believe what she is saying here...that's like a crack addict telling you to leave crack and a pipe next to their bed and believing them when they say that they won't smoke any...C'MON, does that make sense to you??? Your WW is NO different...No matter what she says...No matter what you say or believe...You need to understand that the Affair is very much still going on here...Don't kid yourself!!!


She hasn't told you that it's over because it is NOT!!! Even if she says it is, without NC, it is NOT!!! All this counseling and telling you she's "here" is complete nonsense...it is her attempt to get you off her back so that she can continue her affair in peace and secrecy...DO NOT BUY THIS HOGWASH!!!



GET RID OF THIS COUNSELOR!!! First off, he is TERRIBLE and second, until the affair is over...and it is NOT...MC is a huge waste of money!!! You desperately need a plan, and would be wise to make an appt. with Steve Harley to develop one...Can you make an appointment with him? If so, will you and when???

Mrs. Wondering

my wife said same thing word for word [/quote]She said that everything in the marriage has been on my terms including this. She said that I've just discovered something golden - our marriage - which she knew was golden all along. And that I can't expect her to be as gung ho about putting it back together as I am. It's very true that I was a bad husband to her. Resented her, didn't want to be married to her, fell out of love, etc. Hence the affair. I've owned up big time to my role in the desruction of our marriage.

Even though we're being sweet and loving to each other I feel distant from her a lot of the time. She's not sharing a lot of her feelings.[/quote]

good luck hope you can fix yours

Cymanca - I'm starting to come around. I think your sig DOES describe me. I'll schedule time with the MB counselors & get a plan.

Sanez - good luck you too! I've been reading some of your posts.

UVA - thanks for your comment. I realize how foolish my words seem when they're read back to me.

Wondering - your insight is helpful.

Can someone help me with some logic? Between the MC and W I'm beginning to slip into the fog myself. The MC said that I broke the marriage vows by not honoring my wife. She broke the vows & found companionship outside the marriage. Ofcourse, this is where the "you started it" and "your fault" arguement comes from.

So in her mind we're even. So her arguement to me is why should she have to sacrifice her job? What am I having to give up? I just know that I'm going to get these kinds of arguements and I don't know how to counter them because I feel so horrible when she makes them.

Am I making any sense? We don't get very far when we talk so I'm going to need to write a letter telling her why I'd like her to quit her job. I heard about a Plan A letter. That would help. Anything would help.

MDC - Whoever said your MC sucks was right. That's BS. I have a MC too. We were seeing him for about 3 mos. before W had her EA - so he knew us, but not real well.

When I discovered EA, we made apppointment immediatley the next day and got very lucky to get in to see him (divine intervention maybe?).

Anyway, MC knew that I acted badly for years, but he told W in no uncertain terms that she had had an A (she didn't think it was one since no sex) and that she had to have NC with OM.

He didn't tell me that I wasn't part of problem, but he didn't let her off the hook at all.

You need to change MC's I think.

Thanks.

Are you kidding me? the MC said that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />First dump that MC, what an idiot thing to say and second, Expose the A..It has to be out in the open. A's live in secret..

W has to commit to you that she wants to rebuild M, she has to have NC with OM. You have to learn how to talk through her fog babble. I'm not sure about you writing W letters on how you feel. You should be able to talk together if she really wants to work on M. The MC thing is just a rouge so she can say "see I tried it and it didn't work" or it may be a way to justify the A. Either way, that is not going to work and is a complete waste of time and money.

Step One: A must end and NC what so ever. And W must be willing to do this.

Then you can move on to the next step

Yes. I can't understand why the MC has been all about holding me responsible but has put absolutely NO pressure on W. Not even in passing. Not even said - "And you know you broke your vows too..." Nothing. So he's HELPING the affair.

So I feel like I made somewhat of a breakthrough and scheduled an appointment with Steve. I'm inviting my W but she'll likely not want to join since she likes our current MC just fine - why wouldn't she?

Hoping I will walk away from the MB call with a clear plan for dealing with this.

Thanks everyone for your help.

MDC - How old are you and how long have you been married? Any kids?

Thanks.

19 -

info below

I'm not exposing because I don't have a plan to expose.

Also per Cymanca I'm believing easily what I hope for earnestly. Our marriage has been SO bad for the past year that the love and affection I'm getting right now - even if it is a half act - is not something I want to give up.

Cymanca also nailed it - I think I’m special. Sadly I can see I'm not.

MDC,

I didn't mean my post to be pessimistic just REALISTIC. You have come here for a reason and that reason is to get some insight from other people's mistakes, mine included.

I am a great believer in self respect of the BS as a valuable tool to the BS regaining their own footing as well as it's powerful....yes powerful tool in fighting for your M.

Do the exposing, carry yourself with dignity, believe nothing what you hear and 25% of what you see.

It is an impossibilty for your relationship to correct in less than 1-2 years. It just can't be done. If you are able to pressure your WW into actions that you deem good for your M, you may get a reconciliation... but it will be a false R.

Your WW must journey to where her actions will take her. There are no shortcuts for her nor with you or your M.

SO true re: false reconciliation. She had an online EA 2 years ago. And we tried to work it out without an MC. Without a plan. She didn't show up at the conseling sessions. Seemed as if we worked it out. She got pregnant a couple months later. We focused on the pregnancy and the new baby for about 2 years and - BAM! Here we are again. So sad...

MDC,

I am sure you have had several books recomended to you, please let me add some of my favorites, Dr Dobson's LOVE MUST BE TOUGH and Dr Frank Pittman's PRIVATE LIES

Felt great! Demystified the OP big-time. She'll be no help with exposure since she threw him out and filed for divorce. But I felt like I gained a little control of the situation through this conversation.

((((((MDC))))))))

Giving myself from 6 weeks ago a hug. Grieving for this person. I was SO, SO confused and torn up. Knowing what I know now, I can't believe I didn't expose. Wow.

Thanks everyone that helped me.