Sorry,

That stinks, I'm sorry it was a hard night. I am trying to talk more with Sarah about choosing to live in TODAY and what is happening NOW. I see glimmers of acknowledgement that she needs to do this, but has not chosen to do so yet.

I want y'all to move forward together so badly and I see that your M has the ability to do so, but she is getting herself stuck. It is so obvious she is a wonderful woman who has had her fairytale stripped away and she is having a very difficult time swallowing what she thought was her dream life and learning to exist in the NOW. I sense that she is strong enough to get on board so please hang in there with what you are doing and accomplishing in your life Sorry.

I will be praying for you two today. Rest in the knowledge that God knows all the intimate details and that He has a plan to work this for good if you both will allow Him into your M to do His healing.

Blessings,
Glad

((((((((((((((Sorry)))))))))))))))))

I don't know what to say. Me, speechless, doesn't happen too often! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Just know I'm praying for you and your wife. When you are able, provide an update please.

Take care,

KJ

Just wanted to stop by and say things are a lot better lately. I guess it was just another dip in the coaster. NIKKO I know you warned me about this but I never want to take anything too lightly. I don't want to be too confident so when we go on the dips I get worried. Well I just wanted to stop by and say HI to everyone and thanks for the on going prayers!

Well today was a very bad day. My bags were packed and I was out the door as per her demand!!! I don't know how much more of this blame I can take. Today she came home from work and vented to me in front of the 8 and 4 year old! She got so mad that I didn't argue back. I am very angry with her right now and am thinking about leaving <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />
Today she went too far. She actually took my 8 year old daughter aside and told her "do you remember when we took daddy to the airport" my daughter said yes and W responded with"well daddy was going to see his other girlfriend. "also do you remember when we called daddy in Pittsburgh, well after he said I love you he went to go sleep with his girlfriend" "do you want to know what his girlfriends name is...it's (ow name here)" I don't know if me being here is good . She wanted me her and on Sunday said she isn't planning on divorcing me but when she does things like that to an 8 year old that is going too far. I told her she needs to go get help but she refuses. She said she didn't get herself into this mess so she isn't planning on getting herself out. This M is gonna be done in no time if she continues to think with that kind of attitude. I am concerned for the kids. I hate thinking back on my child hood and all the crap I went thru an now my DD's are. I told my W just a moment ago i was upset with her for what she did and said to DD. She replies with well you should have thought about this when you were having the A. Once again the fact that she subjected our 8 year old daughter to this by what she told her about the OW is my fault because I am the one who had the A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />What am I to do if she continues to refuse to get help and continues to drag the kids in the middle of this? I told her if she continues to do this kind of venting in front of the kids I was gonna leave and live with my parents until she is able to no do this stuff in front of the kids, she replies with well if you do that I will consider that you are giving up on me and I will divorce you and how will that make the kids feel! What am I to do?

OK Kj - get him out of this one .... see where his constant fussing about how CO was doing and the refusal to answer questions at any time and all the manipulation have got him? See how him concentrating on how well he was doing compared to her have stunted his opportunity to work on him? If he had not been manipulating her when she was/is in terrible pain - if he didn't keep telling her how good he is and telling her to get treatment - she wouldn't have her pressure building to the point she is losing the plot.

He will not give her room to bleed - so she is turning to the captive audience of DD - he should have been her audience - her soft spot to fall - over and over, but he won't do that - he won't be a part of the healing process, he wrote the play - acted out the plot - enjoyed the revenues. Now his DD is paying for his ticket to fun. PA are renowned for self obsession and inability to feel others pain - they see it as some kind of attack to be shut out.

AND his answer is to run to Mummy and leave BS alone with DD so she can carry all the pain for Mum, as Dad won't hear it. Good move Einstein.

So KJ - you always have encouraging advice for him, think his foolhardy self admiration is good and feel so sorry for him - fix it please.

SP

If you really want help and are ready to do what it takes to fix your marriage - I am back in the country and Nikko has been here all along - patiently waiting for you to wake up.

Sorry and SP,

I can't single-handedly "fix" anyone's problems. Like you SP, I am only here to offer support and suggestions that are based upon my own experiences. This M is in despair, I feel pain for both Sorry and CO. I've focused more on Sorry for obvious reasons, doesn't mean I agree with everything he's done. I've expressed my opinion about their private threads. Frankly, I still cannot see how this couple is going to survive when they cannot practice radical honesty.

Although some of Sorry's attempts at recovery have been misguided, I do not believe he intended them to be. Regardless of what he has or hasn't done, there is NO excuse for what CO did with their daughter. I work in human services, this is considered emotional abuse of a child. I don't give a 5hit whose fault it is, this child will be scarred for life. Good God, 8 years old!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I have a 7 and 11 year-old. My H is in just as much pain as CO, and he would rather die than put either of our children in the middle like this couple has. I got sick to my stomach reading Sorry's last post.

Frankly, I have lost all respect for CO because ultimately, it was SHE who said these things to their DD, she too must be held accountable for her actions, no excuses. Sorry has at least taken responsibility for his actions during his A. I'll be waiting to see if CO takes responsibility for hers. Seriously, please don't try to justify CO's actions, think about that poor child.

IMHO, I think seperation is inevitible, and for their children's sakes, I hope it is sooner than later.

KJ

KariJean,
you can't judge CO. You never felt what BS feels. No offense. I NEVER expected to react like I did. BS goes insane. People kill themselves and their children in these circumstances. I realized that probably most of the suicides happens when person can't feel that pain - literally physical pain any longer. So please don't say that you lost respect for CO - you never had it in a first place.

KJ, If you cannot emotionally distance yourself you should not be posting to these people. You are not a BS. You have NO IDEA what the pain is like. It does not excuse CO's lapse of judgement but people make mistakes. So, it is ok for Iam to cheat on CO and to leave her to tend to the kids but it is not ok for CO to hurt? Oh and then because Iam can't take the heat, he can just run off and leave his W AGAIN to tend to the homefires? Sheesh!

And really, where has Iam taken full responsibility for his actions?

Iamsorry,
read your post from 06/09/06 09:55 AM. This was first time I saw that your M has a chance. Try to feel her pain. This would help you to react appropriately.

Perhaps you should look at yourself and say "ok silverpool how can you get cheated_on out of this one..." I know lets put it back on her H since CO is doing everything right and it's all her H fault because he walks away from her venting to protect the children from hearing and seeing it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Just for debate...My W is in jail because she threatened DD with a gun. I will be sure to give you her jail cell number to write her in case you want to tell her what she did is normal and it was my fault. He maybe you can even represent her at the trial I am sure the judge will hear what you think and end up throwing me in jail since you have a good way of getting CO from taking responsibility for HER own actions!

Look I know I am not perfect. I know I have problems I need to work at. I know I got my W an I in this mess. I just don't think I can continue to come on this board and hear FBS stick up for my W and let her know that what she is doing is o-kay. I am beginning to see why she won't go to IC...it's because she thinks what she is doing is normal for a BS and so she doesn't need help. The fact is even if it is normal it doesn't mean it's right! I heard it's normal for the WS to lie a lot about the affair , but do I come home and tell my wife that my lying is normal and it's not a problem because that is exactly what she did yesterday. I don't know what she posted to you guys but for some reason she is now walking around with the security that what she did with DD is "normal" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Weather I am there for her or not there is nothing normal about a mother who subjects their own 8 year old daughter to the verbal attacks that she made to her about me!!! That was wrong! That is like saying it was o-kay that I lied in the past and drug this whole recovery process out and put my DD's thru a prolonged recovery because it is normal for BS to lie. What I did was wrong. Yet no one ever told me it was normal and gave me the satisfaction of thinking everything was o-kay! I realized for myself that whatever the situation is there are two ways to respond to it...Gods way or my way. I learned that if I do things my way it is a dead end. I know I am a selfish and a PA so that is why I really following the guide lines of my pastor, support group counselor and my IC who are all Christians and help me do thing Gods way. I know it does not alway seem right to the MB's but this is the direction I have chosen to go. This is where my faith is. I trust these people and they know my wife and I on a PERSONAL level unlike everyone here. All you guys know is what you read which makes it hard for you guys to really help. I know my W is on here posting a lot and I know when she tells her side of a story she likes to skip and leave parts out. I know this because when I talk to mutual friends or family about a situation they ALWAYS say "oh , she didn't tell me that". I also know that is the reason she does not tell her best friend or family anything anymore because when they come to me they hear the whole story and that takes the spot light that she put on me back on her which is exactly what everyone here does for her. Why is it that she won't even talk to her best friend who has been there for her everystep of the way thru this. Her best friend has comitted herself to my W and has been there for he since D-day and know she won't even talk to her about stuff. So you see I don't know exactly what is going on over on her thread but I can only imagine there is a lot of "it's o-kay" or "thats normal" going on and that is exactly what she wants to hear.
Well I guess this is good bye. I don't plan to post on this thread anymore. Thanks for everyones help and time. I really appreciate you KJ for seeing the WS side of it and I really appreciated you NIKKO for your support(smack in the head) and helping me realize my own faults that need to be worked on. I will continue to go to my IC and work on me and... see my pastor, attend my groups to follow Gods will. Wish me luck!

**** Please help my W. She really doe not need support she needs direction. I will do my best to do my part in supporting and listening to her...I promise <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (unless she is venting in front of the children which means I WILL walk away EVERYTIME, not for my sake but for theirs!)

Keep us in your prayers GLAD

Bye guys : Dwain

Hi Dwain...I didn't figure you for a Dwain <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I hear what you are saying. I have from the get-go found you to be a well-intentioned FWS trying to figure out how to work out the mess you got your M into(after 2nd d-day and letting go of all the lying). Sometimes getting it right, sometimes wrong, but seeming to me, in cyber-space, that you wanted to be on the right page.

I'm sorry it has come to this, but I can't say I don't understand. Your W is indeed crashing, letting this angry cancer inside her fester and rot and she is not getting to a place where she wants to change that. I hate that for her because she seems (again from cyber-space) like a wonderful woman.

As a BS myself with young dd's your girls ages, what she did with your 8 yo was COMPLETELY WRONG. I am saddened that there would be any rationale given for it by anyone. And yes, I do understand and have lived the insanity of being a BS and know that irrational things can be said or done...--that does not mean that such detremental actions to a child are justified. I resorted to begging and pleading with her to please pursue counseling and stop this soul cancer inside her.

As a christian myself who healed my marriage through the direction of our church and a christian counselor, I believe the avenues you are pursuing will work. I will absolutely continue to hold you two up in prayer and Sarah specifically for God to lead her in a healing direction.

You two have so much to build on and I really think Sarah wants her family together and M healed but there is a gap that she has not been able to cross yet. I will pray for that gap to be filled with God's plan for healing.

Sorry, please persevere. Listen and validate her pain. Don't walk away from her, tell the children to go in another room...find ways to get her to calm down...my H used to have major rage/anger episodes and pre-A and all our MB efforts my reaction approach just fanned his flames and fueled his anger. I learned how to respond when he would start getting angry so as to not add fuel to it to send it into a rage.

He worked so hard on his anger, and with me as his partner in helping him to stop it before it got out of control, he is a success I think in overcoming the battle with anger.

Right now, with her anger being fed by her feelings about the A you need to figure out what will work to calm her. Staying silent and/or walking away seems to be fuel for her. What about a calm "mantra" until she gets ahold of herself like, "I know I've hurt you, I am so sorry" and just keep repeating that and look in her eyes. I learned that whenever I agreed with what my H was saying it calmed him immediately, even if I had to dig inside myself to find something to agree with without letting myself get incensed by the injustice of his verbal attack on me. It is just food for thought. She needs help to get control of this insane anger that is eating her alive.

I hurt for you both and am so thankful for my M and the hard work we went through to be where we are today.

Blessings and Prayers, (((((Dwain and Sarah))))
Michele

You are wrong IASS - telling her that acting out of anger irrationally is normal for a BS isn't saying it is OK. But to you it would be. I think you have been told that how you acted is normal for a WS, but you didn't think that was saying you were ok. so go and run away from those who are here for you - Bss spending their time trying to get through to you just how recant your wife's situation is and how much truth she needed immediately, not bit by bit with all the rules you kept giving her. and now you are telling us she is slippery and doesn't tell the whole truth - THAT is what is important to you. Putting her down to those who cannot check it out ans see if it is true. Very PA behaviour. She sounds just like your behaviour - so what was honest about your A and all the lies. what is honest about your insistence on not discussing what bothers you?

You seem to have perfected fanning the flames of her pain so she acts out and you can be a victim. And when she fell down and told your daughter of your A - you must have been in victim heaven - not just you, but a child victim too!!! A genuine victim whose pain you could bathe in. CO couldn't have fallen into your trap better - couldn't have acted in reckless desperation in a more effective way for you to feel vindicated in all you have been saying about her. It must be soo good going to your support groups and telling them how wonderful you are and how she is just hopeless. How much you love her but are coming to the end of your tether. And they feel for you and encourage you. And you love it.

Please get a grip for your M and family. Stop playing the "fan her fires" games. You cannot get fixed by default. You do need to accept who and what you are and do, you cannot change it until you do - honestly.

We are constantly telling her - not begging and pleading - TELLING her in CAPS, to stop making excuses and get some therapy. I told her to do it at 6am when the court is not yet open - so get off your Sorry Horse and stop riding that old nag. Stay with the people who don't really know what you are up to. The ones who have always fallen for your "earnest sincerity" they will make you feel good, but they won't be able to help you do better with your wife, because they don't know the dysfunctional you or the pain your wife is in.

I know you want a marriage that is healed, but living your PA fantasies will not heal it - an honest POJA with no strings will be the way. Stop judging her and start being honest about your motivations and inner emotions. It will be like a great weight is lifted from your shoulders when you do and things changing in you, will affect CO and she will not be able to with hold from changing too.

Anyway - just know you are in many of our prayers daily - I tell you this, as you don't seem to know that prayer warriors are praying for you whom do not feel the need to tell you over and over. People who have never heard your specific problems are praying for you right now. Just know that 4,000 all over the world are praying for you. In any hour of the day at least two people are praying specifically for you and Sarah. We will continue to pray for you but I will not be posting about it, God doesn't need to read MB to hear prayers or know what is going on.

By for now - do your best and try to concentrate on being honest with yourself - that comes first with PA - then you can see how things work together, and can create change.

SP

ive been quiet and just watching and reading.....you sorry had a plan. had people to listen to and guide you......you choose to listen to them because it fits what you want......

how's that working?


we spoke about recovery....you didnt really like the answer i gave you...you didnt like that i said this wasnt recovery.....you know when you will be in recovery......


she will heal and begin recovery when SH FEEL LIKE YOU ARE LISTENING TO HER AND HAVE EMPATHY FOR HER AND SHE FEELS LIKE YOU GET IT. that is when true recovery will begin. and that is NOT something you can fake. she will smell it.

dont you get it??????? her biggest stumbling block will be her EVER trusting you again......her deciding to trust you with her pain is a huge step and SHE doesnt even get that either. without realizing it she is turning to you with her pain(the convo's she wants to have).....and your response is to shut down and run. you have got to become her soft spot again so she has a place to fall.....you want nothing to do with it. its not gonna work until you are able to do this for her.

now as far as everything else.....what she did was wrong....what kj posted was wrong.....no one is comiserating with her about what she did. someone did say they understood and did the same stupid thing.....THAT WAS WHAT WAS SAID. someona also said they understood the stupid choice and knew it came from the pain....no one told her it was ok. its not.

are you really ready to fix this or am i wasting my time? alot of us are trying to help you and sarah....she is no easier to get through to either by the way...lol. both of you need to realize...this isnt a game, and the real losers will be the children......both of you need to knock it off.