There are two threads about trust on the Emotional Needs forum. One is called Boys night out, the other Am I being uneasy for no good reason.

I'd like to ask those of you who have faced infidelity:

How many of you completely trusted your partner before they cheated?

Do you think that your blind trust made infidelity more likely or less likely to occur?

Were good marital boundaries in place?

Did you completely trust your spouse before they cheated? single choice
	yes
	no
Votes accepted starting: 04/20/06 08:55 AM
View Results

Do you believe that single choice
	yes
	no
Votes accepted starting: 04/20/06 08:55 AM
View Results

Before the affair, did you have good marital boundaries (ie spending recreational and enjoyable time together, no overnights away etc.) single choice
	yes
	no
Votes accepted starting: 04/20/06 08:55 AM
View Results

Sorry about the second question: It SHOULD read (and I can't edit it) "Do you believe that blind trust makes infidelity more likely to happen?"

(waving)

Hi Angelfish...I mean Star*fishy! I love your posts!

- Kimmy

When my first H cheated, 7 years into our marriage, I trusted him completely. I was blown away.

I do NOT think that blind trust makes infidelity more likely, though it might make the signs harder to see (for the betrayed spouse).

The third question irks me... (not you, the question) because at that time we had three kids under the age of 5, one with special needs... I had just had three kids in succession and my body was anything but perfect (I was fat)... and I was so danged tired because my (then)H worked a swing shift that left me handling EVERYTHING at night with the kids (the oldest in Kindergarten with homework, etc.) and then again in the morning for pre-school with the middle child... because he was sleeping... which meant I had to keep the kids quiet...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I had to stop myself. You'd think this just happened yesterday or something... sheesh... it's only been... uh... what?... 20 years ago?... no kidding.

I don't like that third question. Can you tell?

A big ditto on this statement by - what's her name now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

fishy - when do I find out if I win?

WAT
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...feet, down below his knees......

Keep the comments coming!!

I'm so crummy at making polls!! YIKES!! I forgot to include the WSs!! So if you're a wayward spouse and you want to answer....the first question should be:

"Before you cheated, did you trust yourself completely to be faithful?"

new beginning.....the third question is really about what agreements you and your spouse had in place about time spent "apart" and if you were had designed your life to spend "partying" time and other recreational time together. As you suggest....there are times in marriages where "plans" and reality don't match up huh?

Tiny TJ,

WAT,

Had I known you'd follow me, I would have turned on my handy-dandy sig line generator... hm... where is that button... ah, yes... here we go... (And by the way, I've settled on "cheeses" as the only subject because it's so vast and tasty!)

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Bavarian Bergkase

Hi dealan and WAT!!

"fishy - when do I find out if I win?"

LOL....you are already a winner chere!

What this all boils down to is that *I* think (and Harley agrees) that Blind Trust is for Chumps!. Sure, we all want to trust our spouse....but having a realistic amount of skepticism along with good marital boundaries increases the odds that your marriage will survive the temptations that exist for all of us.

yikes....next time I'm going to make it mandatory to vote before seeing results! 50 views and 10 votes?? Come on y'all....it's an easy poll and there is no "right" answer, so you can't be "wrong"!

justpeachy posted THIS on another thread .... and it sums up how I (now) feel about "blind trust"




blind trust is the slow-cooker of marriage infidelity

good visual learning tool for Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I agree completely!

Also, as I was a WS in the 18th year of that same marriage, I will answer your other question:

I honestly thought that I'd never cheat. Some of it was righteous indignation (because HE cheated and I'd NEVER lower myself to his level) and some of it was NOT PROTECTING myself or our marriage.

And back to that third icky question <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />... yes, life has a way of getting in the way of plans... which is super-difficult if you don't have ANY plans (boundaries) in place. At the time, we were just trying to survive with three small kids and limited money... all that "starting out" stuff that happens in early marriage...

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Mahoe Aged Gouda

oooooooooooh I great analogy!!

We had good boundries, but because of the blind trust those boundry lines lost their importance over the years.

Star~

I noticed on the thread in EN's TRUST IS FOR CHUMPS was bold, not BLIND TRUST IS FOR CHUMPS. I'm curious if that would have made a difference in people's reaction?

I would think there has to be a certain level of trust in the marriage, not blind trust though.

yes.....originally, I didn't put the "blind" and it was a problem that I had to amend later in the thread. But for the purpose of the poll....I want the "intent" of the statement to be clear from the beginning.

I always thought I was just not a jealous type...and that my H wasn't - we had an amazing blind trust...if he was out till 2am and didn;t call me, I worried he was okay - but never worried where he was...and vice versa....

I had a best friend who was male - H had the same best friend...we shared that friend...I went to that friend for martial advice since he knew H so well...that friend eventually betrayed us and left with H's company during the time of my surgeries and 4 months before my affair began with a man I met a few months later...

We had no boundaries...and full trust...and both of us ended up in affairs...life this time around is a little different...but we also make the bigger effort to be transparent and tell eachother everything in regards to wherabouts, late work, etc, so boundaries never have to be enforced, as those are just PART of our new marriage...

Totally agree! I thought, like Dorry, that I just wasn't the jealous type. WH always seemed happy that I wasn't as clingy or suspicious as his friend's wives. After he left me for MOW, he accused me of not caring because I wasn't jealous and suspicious.

My current view of my attitude back then is that I didn't value myself enough to let WH know when he was crossing my boundaries. I actually didn't trust him enough to let him know my true feelings. It was much easier for me to appear to be the understanding wife than to risk rejection. I was afraid that asking for what I wanted and needed was asking too much of him. Of course, he sensed he was being shut out even though I didn't even realize I was doing it. I expected him to read my mind, I guess. While I'm in no way taking responsibility for my WH's bad choices (and they go well beyond just infidelity), I do see my part in the demise of our marriage.

For these results to be meaningful, you need a comparison group of people whose spouses haven't had affairs to ask if they trust their spouses and if they have good marital boundaries in place. The only way you can conclude that "trust is for chumps" is to show that affairs are more likely to happen in a marriage where the partners trust each other, and how could you do that with no comparison group? At the moment, you don't know how to interpret these results. Maybe people whose spouses haven't cheated are just as likely, or even more so, to trust their spouses completely, and maybe they are equally likely or unlikely to have good marital boundaries in place.

And that's not getting into the whole issue of self-selected samples and how they skew data collection.

True, El. My WH, for example, cheated on his XW, even though she's as jealous and possessive as they come. His resentment of her behavior and initial appreciation of the contrast between us, as far as jealousy, reinforced my belief that it was her jealousy and suspiciousness that drove him to cheat on her.

Clearly blind trust does not cause infidelity, but it can allow situations to get out of hand that might not otherwise. Because of my WH's infidelity right under my nose and my blind trust that believed he'd never cheat on me, trust is now my #1 EN. Trust in a relationship now includes trusting myself, my feelings, and my intuition not to overlook red flags - like cheating in a previous relationship (!) or statements like "we're just friends" - because "we trust each other", or "he'd never cheat on me", or the worst, "he'll be different with me" (gag!).

guilty El!! But you mistake my purpose. I'm not trying to prove "that affairs are more likely to happen in a marriage where the partners trust each other". I'm just asking questions and seeking opinions....not looking for "proof". "Blind Trust is for Chumps" is my opinion (oh, and Harley's)....I give my opinion in small doses because opinions without anything to back them up....are pretty weak.

What this poll can illustrate (in a small, limited way) is that of the meager 27 people who actually did answer it....a whopping 90% them completely trusted their spouses before infidelity. So trust is probably not an immunization against affairs in this small sample. That's inconclusive to prove that "Blind Trust is for Chumps", but it definitely points in the right direction.

The purpose of this poll was not to prove anything....certainly not my opinion....which is unecessary to me....but to put together a good post on EN about trust and the experiences that those who HAVE faced infidelity can add to the mix. Over on EN....is where the incompatible marriages tend to be....the milder problems....the folks who can't even fathom facing this issue.

When I form an opinion however, I try my best to base it on the best research that IS available....since quite obviously, I don't have the opportunity at this point to research on my own in a meaningful way. So let me leave with the opinions of people who do:

Shirley Glass: "Contrary to popular belief, infidelity doesn't happen only to bad people with lousy marriages. Infidelity can happen in good, happy marriages." As researcher Shirley Glass points out, many people "are pretty satisfied with good relationships. They love their spouses, and then they sort of slide into an affair because they are not aware of their boundaries".

Peggy Vaughn: "Preventing affairs is not like having a one-time inoculation - or even getting occasional booster shots. It's more like taking a pill every day for the rest of your life"

Michelle Weiner Davis: "The No. 1 cause for the breakdown in marriages today is the same issue that causes infidelity. Couples aren't prioritizing their marriage," says Michele Weiner-Davis, a marriage and family therapist and author. "People spend time on their careers, their kids, community affairs, hobbies, sports. But they take their spouses for granted. It just doesn't work that way"

Willard Harley in a radio interview:

MEEUWSEN: We all go to the altar thinking we're going to make it without ever experiencing something like this, and yet statistics show that a majority of marriages go through an affair. Why?

Dr. HARLEY: That's part of the problem. I think that people start out assuming it's not going to happen to them. And so they don't take the precautions because they trust each other. You know, we get inoculated for various diseases that we're likely to get, but we don't bother to get inoculated for an affair.

MEEUWSEN: Why do affairs happen?

Dr. HARLEY: Well, I think we're born with the instinct to have an affair, quite frankly. I think that we're all wired to have it. People that are given the opportunity and have not taken precautions to avoid it generally succumb to the temptation.

more:

Harley: There is some infidelity in my own family and I wanted to make sure it would never happen to me and my wife, Joyce. And so we made a compact with each other to be radically honest with each other about everything, that we would never lie to each other. It's an incredibly important precaution to take. The second thing is that she would always be my best friend. I would spend my leisure time with her. She would end up being the person I would go with on trips. If either of us were going to be gone for any period of time, the other would be there as well. I would not have lunch with another woman. I would not go in a car pool with another woman. I would not allow myself to be tempted to have an affair with somebody else. And if I ever found somebody else attractive, the first person to know about it would be my wife.

In any case. Can YOU prove that blindly trusting someone is a good strategy to PREVENT infidelity?

Nah....didn't think so.

*editted for grammar*