hi Dorry,

i had some questions in another thread and Suzet told me that i could try asking you some of them.

I had an EA for a pretty long time and told my Husband that i didnt love him anymore and that he should get on with his life. We didnt get a divorce, but my Husband got involved with someone after a while. I ended my EA and wanted to work on our marriage, i told my Husband that i still loved him and that i was sorry (short version) when he was "at home" for a visit. After he left again for Kuwait, he told me on the phone that he loves me too and that we will be together again. I knew he was still with OW at this point and stressed him to leave her. He said he will, but since he made her quit her job and she was living with him, he couldnt just throw her out on the street, so i said thats fine and i kept asking him now and then if she was gone yet. He kept telling me she tried to commit suicide right in front of him when he told her, and that he is still trying to find a job... for a few weeks i didnt ask anymore, our mails and phone calls were loving to each other. When i asked about it again, he said she had been gone for 2 weeks already. We never talked about our relationship, or about that he comes back home or that i would join him with the kids.

In august last year he had me come to Kuwait to "see it in my eyes" (his words). There were things in his room from her, but he said she planted it all there, and i believed him. Also the closeness between us was gone, and i knew we couldnt "fix" anything in the two weeks that i was there. When i left i felt like this was the end of my marriage, i was scared and cried, i thought i would never see him again. I pushed him after this that we should move back together, but he kept bringing up excuses that made sense to me, and i waited.

In october he called me and told me he didnt love me anymore, and my world shattered, but he also told me to wait for him. I was completely confused. My mental state was going downhill and i had no support (no family or friends around). In december as i was visiting my family for x-mas i had a major nervous breakdown and my mom got scared for me and wanted to take me to a mental hospital immediately, i was in very bad shape. As noone would have taken the kids if i would have stayed in that hospital, they would have gone into foster care or something similar. Thats when my husband decided to have us all brought here, he told my sister on the telephone that the OW is leaving him anyways and that he would get me help here, and that WE would get an apartment here together. I was still very scared and confused at that point and my Husband kept calling me until the day the plane left and kept telling me, that we will talk when i get here, and to think positive.

When i got here, he was still living with OW, and for the first time in our marriage my husband was cold towards me when we were togehter in person. He hugged and kissed me on the cheek, said we will always be friends... that kind of thing. It hurt horribly, it was like a huge wake-up call. He did get the apartment, and i live in it with the kids only, he comes by to bring money or food or whatever else that we need. He is working on getting us our permanent visas so we can stay here. I told him many times i will leave if he is happy, he keeps saying things like... you are not ready for this, you are still crying. Then once he told me, ok.. you can leave, once i get the bonus in a few weeks, i will get you the ticket. I kept checking the bank account, he got the bonus, but he never mentioned it to me.

Also when i told him i would leave, he said two weeks, then i said, can we talk about what going to happen with the kids, the finances.. etc... he said we will talk about it when the time comes. A lot can change in two weeks. But of course nothing happened, no talk was made. I have been having pretty big breakdowns in the past months, in the beginning he tried to be there for me, but he cant be my husband is what he told me.

He said he dont know what the future brings, its not over until one of us says its over. He says the marriage is only on paper (same phrase i used back then in my EA).

He also doesnt talk to fondly about OW towards me, when he complains to me about her, she is the b***h. He seems pretty depressed lots of times, unless he keeps himself busy with all sorts of things. When i ask him what he wants for the rest of his life, he has no clue. He says he is over my EA, he does not want to talk about it, its in the past. He says he doesnt know if his love for my will ever return, but mine did, so it might happen. I get the feeling he is waiting for the day when he wakes up and says... ooh.. i love my wife.. and then he comes back. But that wont happen.

Suzet told me that your Husband has been a FBH and a FWH, i was hoping that you or your Husband could maybe give me some insight to a person that has been on both sides in that order. Does he still deal with issues from my EA? Does he doubt the whole marriage? Does he see himself as a failure? (i did tell him that i had the affair due to neglect, he always thought he did everything right) He says he has lost his pride, and i am sure he has lost more than that due to my EA. He says there are things he has to deal with himself. He also says he loves the OW, but that this is only a small part why he doesnt want to reconsiliate (hope i spelled it right). He wont talk to me about it though, he says i dont want to see what it looks like inside of him, and he will deal with it himself.

How can i reach him? I am afraid to talk to him, i am afraid i will start crying again, or that he just wont show up anymore, because i start the "old" subject again. I know he dont want me to leave, and he doesnt want me to get a divorce. I love him, i dont feel the closeness to him anymore, because its been so long, but i know that we could have all that and more back. I dont want to give up this marriage, but it just seems like nothing is happening and will happen, because he waits for this "miracle". Maybe from your Husbands point of view, i could understand my husband and then i would know what is going on inside of him, and if there is a way, or hope.

If it is too painful for you or your Husband to talk about it, i will understand, thank you for reading it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All the best to you and yours

I have no problem talking about it, my husband however will not talk about it anymore. After his affair he gave me all details, and let me ask questions (said he wouldnt be like me - I didn't reveal all for over a month) then he said to move forward there could be no reminders or talk of the A's anymore...and each of us had to heal seperatly...but the marriage we could work on together.

That was 9 months ago and today - we are doing good...but he is going through issues...he wont tell me what they are - but we haven't had sex in almost 4 months...we still cuddle, laugh, hold hands, hug, talk, play....he tells me he is just going through alot emotionally....whether it's still my A? Or his A? I dont know.

My husband said to me if it had just been an EA - my affair, it would have been easier for him...it's the PA part that hurt him the most. My affair was now 16 months ago...it ended on d-day.

I dont know if my husband still feels like a failure, but here is what I know from what he told me early in both recoveries.

He knew things weren't super good in our marriage, but thought things were pretty good....then I have an affair and tell him I love him but I am not in love with him and all he has done wrong....

My husband feels he has failed me...feels like a looser. As recovery goes on, I begin to "own" my affair, and less and less blaming him, but H has been faking it - trying to get through the pain to get to getting over it....

3 months into recovery he grows distant...and he moves to the basement...He becomes cold and cruel - very verbally abusive about my affair and about me. I am not allowed to touch or talk to him - this is "pressure" in his eyes.

A month later I find out he is starting an EA with someone at work, I apply pressure, it dies...He feels like a failure again - he can't even do recovery right...he gets MORE distant....He feels he wrecks every life he is a part of. Figures moving on might be better, but doesn't want to leave.

5 months post d-day and into recovery he meets someone on a singles forum - a great woman. She believes he has been seperated for months. I find out about the singles forums on my anniversary...see his advertisments and posts on our anniversary....I find out about her on my birthday. 4 days later he leaves.

One month later she dumps him (he was about to dump her he says) and he confesses and comes home. He felt he failed me, failed our marriage, failed recovery and failed at life...he still struggles with failure all the time - i make to remind him he has not failed in anyway...that we are here making this work and love eachother very much...

The biggest thing that helped were my changed...did you realize alot of the neglect I felt I could have prevented??? Seriously? I talk alot and thought I was a great communicator - turns out I sucked...in telling H how I felt, and what I wanted, the way I phrased it critisized him and hurt him...and I thought I was communicating feelings...but my feelings always had a, I feel cause YOU did....instead of just a feeling.... I also always wanted him to understand how I was feeling, so when our POV's were different , I would push and push and push to be validated. All of this caused my H to start ignoring me half the time, not talking to me much, and in turn I felt neglected, ignored, unloved, which was FAR from the truth.


In wanting your husbang back - you may have to take the lead. To begin with you need to tell him over and over that your affair, your actions were NOT his fault, that you are sorry you ever blamed him for them. You then need to really look at yourself and see why you really did it and make those changed to correct yourself.

Then you have to be patient. Tell him that if he comes back - it's not something you are going to hold over his head forever, that you just want the truth and then you want to look at a new future and not the past.

My husband is ex-special forces...although he hasn't been military for 10 years now, he is still like that - they are too man to talk about their feelings, and too stubborn to let anyone help them - hense why in our recovery - H is recovering all on his own on a personal level - no books, no talking, no IC....

I hope some of this helps?

You should also post to Just Learning - he has given me valuable insight time and time again to how my husbands brain works, has that insight has helped teach me new ways to talk, deal and react to my husband, which in turn has made my husband respond, talk and react differently to me - all in GOOD ways!

Thank you for your answer Dorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My Husband is also ex-military and believes the same way i believe.

I just have no clue how to even bring any of this up? Ever since my last "breakdown" where he retreated very much afterwards (maybe cause he feels guilty for it?) i am afraid to touch the subject.

I do believe that my husband feels like he failed me, i just dont know how to tell him that... i cant just come out and say.. oh btw...since we dont really talk about anything other than regular everyday stuff which is mainly about paperwork etc.

Your husband believed he still loved you, my husband is at the point where he says he cares for me, but doesnt love me. And he doesnt miss me anymore.

I know i also came across wrong to my husband when we did talk, he always said i am "bashing" him and he cant take it anymore. I never saw how i was bashing him when i told him how i felt. I just dont know how much longer i can be in this situation, i so want to tell him i will be here, i am not giving up, i am not leaving you, since i think this has a part in it. But if the situation stays the way it is, i just dont know how i can live like this. If i tell him how it "would" be in our marriage if we were to try for it, he says "he knows".

I dont want to come across to him like i am telling him what he needs to do, i just get the feeling he would like to have his "old" life back, with the security and everything, no matter with whom. He doesnt believe in planning for the future anymore, cause he says we had planned so much, and look what happened. Look where it has brought us. I dont know what to say to him when he says things like that.

I want him to be able to see positive agian, that good can come out of this. When i once told him, that because of what we went through i was able to help save someone marriage. He just said, well i am glad something good came out of this. I cant rip him away from OW and make him see the light. He just stays right there where he is right now, and just lives the life he has now, basically accepts it for what it is, and thats good for now.

I so want to help him, but i know i cant. Is the only thing left to do to leave? I cant help him...

He sounds like my H...when he left it was to start a new life - instead of fixing the old, to just start over, do things right....but he realized to do that he had to leave his old life behind and that was where he struggled...it was a life he built with me and aspects of it he liked...

He wont see positive until he hits bottom and is ready to face the past... I know you dont talk, but what is the harm in telling him - through letter or person, or phone, you know your faults and where YOU failed HIM...(dont bring up ANYTHING about how he failed you) And how despite everything you still love him, but understand his need to start over, but that you would love the chance to be the one he starts over with - that you would like to start new and fresh and do it right this time. And then patience.

He may not come back...he might...this is your "plan A" time...then plan B...plan A for a FWW is harder for sure...but doable. I know you have limited contact, but when you have that contact - dont bring up any issues about him or the marriage...let him know he ISN"T a failure and your affair was never his fault...now is NOT the time to address his...that will come once he is back

Thank you so much Dorry, you have been a huge eye-opener to me, i will write him an apology and thank you letter, i think its best if i write it to him instead of telling him in person, that way he doesnt feel like he is obligated to answer me, and it can be his choice whether he wants to reply or not.

It also made me think about how i was in our marriage, and it shocked me to see how i was. In many ways i was disrespectful to him, yet he stayed with me and loved me reguardless. He never stopped providing for me during all this time, and he would have had all reasons to stop. But he didnt, that makes him a much bigger person than i was and am. I am still learning, still growing, but i think i am on my way.

Once i have that letter done, i will most likely post it here, and i would like to ask you for your opinion of it. I am still a bit unsure at times, and afraid of slipping back into my old way of saying things. I am working hard on it, but i do fail at it still, this has been also one reason why i havent talked about anything marriagerelated to my husband lately. Because this is were i tend to "loose" it... not aggressively, but emotionally. I need to work on myself more first.

I always assumed when my Husband told me that he doesnt love me anymore, that he just wanted to give up the marriage, and i wanted to send him his things and offered to do that, but he didnt want that. I told him i would get a job, he didnt want that, it seemed he has always been waiting for something. I dont know what it is exactly. Since then we have lost everything that was our old life, and it hit my Husband pretty hard, i didnt think it would, i thought, well he got a new life here, why is he mourning the things of our old life? There is a lot that i didnt understand that was going on inside of him.

I kind of feel like i am stuck in this current situation, as i see nothing happening, and nothing has happened in either direction, at least from my point of view, i cant look inside of him, so i cant say if anything is going on. Sometimes i just wish he could tell me he wants a divorce, it would hurt very badly, but at least then i would know. On the other hand, as long as he hasnt said that, he still might see a chance for us himself. I wish i had found this site 2 years ago, but two years ago i didnt even see my EA for what it was. I thought i was done with my Husband, so it wasnt an affair. WRONG!!! I didnt get a divorce... it was an affair. Talk about warped perception.

here is the letter i wrote that i am thinking of reading to my husband, would appreciate it if someone could give me some input on it (good or bad)

To my dear Husband,

I want to thank you for everything you have done for me and still do. You have always stood by me, provided for me, protected me and loved me regardless of my faults for all those years.

My affair was not your fault, i know i have told you in the past that it was. I am sorry for blaming the affair on you. Truth is, the affair was a choice i made, a very bad one, but it was my choice. I failed to communicate to you how i felt for a long time, you had no way of knowing how i felt, since i didnt tell you. I perceived you not being able to read my mind as you not loving me anymore. It was my misperception. I assumed something that wasnt true. I withdrew and started to feel resentment, but that wasnt your fault, the way i dealt with my feelings was my choice, just like the affair, you did NOT fail me.

I am sorry for hurting you. I am sorry for having had this affair. I am sorry for the disrespectful way when talking to you. I have interrupted you, only "heard" what i wanted to hear to validate my own feelings.. not regarding yours. I have assumed to know how you feel even when you told me otherwise. This was bashing you in a very disrespectful way. I know how important it is for you to have a clean home, but i ignored you when you said something about it. I have said 'no' when you wanted to do things with me and found excuses not to do them. I am sorry for not meeting your needs in our marriage.

I have learned many things about myself that i never wanted to see. I have failed you and our marriage in so many ways, yet you were loving me regardless.

Please forgive me for my shortcomings as a wife, the problems that i had were selfcreated and not your fault, just like my affair. I am sorry it took me this long to know my own faults, and that it took me so long to apologize to you. You have always done everything to make me hapy and to care for me. You are an amazing person, you have given so much and still do. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Love always,

your humble wife

Personally I would prefer to hear:

and that it took me so long to tell you how deeply sorry I am.

[I don't like the word "apologize" too much.]

I would also start out the letter:

To my dear Husband,

I hope some day you will understand how sorry I truly am and how badly I feel for the pain I have caused you...


The reason I suggest this is that I have to get way into what you posted before I figure out it you are saying you are sorry or saying goodbye. It starts out like a "Dear John" letter.

What I, as a BS, want to hear, is that it is your fault, not mine. You accept full responsibility and hold me blameless. You are truly sorry and hope some day I can find it in my heart to forgive me. I never did anything to you to deserve the pain you caused me.

That kind of stuff. You letter pretty much covers that. It doesn't sound very emotional though. Maybe just a "German thing" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

guess i am afraid of it being too emotional, so in a way he might think its just me trying to pressure him too much.

It sounds like i am saying goodbye?... Ugh... glad i posted it here first... will have to rewrite that... Guess the saying thanks in the beginning does that...

Also, you are right the letter does not come across as very loving... i guess a big part for this is, that i had to pull up some wall again, so it wouldnt hurt so much and that i dont fall apart all the time. Its like putting some distance between me and the hurt which in turn puts distance between me and the love for him.

Daggi,

This is a little like a Mexican standoff. Somebody has to lower their gun or you get nowhere.

To be honest, if gemela ever does get to feel remorseful for what she has done to me, I want to see that she is hurting over it. You want to show him how hurt you are for what you have done to him. You don't want it to look like you are beggin him to come back. I think you can do this and still show emotion.

You are right though. When I first read it, I thought you might be saying goodbye. I would start it differently so that your intent is clear from the first line.

hey Trai, thanks so much for your insight, like i said before in some post, i always had trouble displaying me emotions the way i felt them. I kind of stay "reserved" and always wait for the other person to make the first move, so i feel wanted and loved. Maybe it has something to do with that my father never showed any love for his daughters, but thats a whole different subject..lol

Hope you dont mind...how is this?


To my dear Husband,

I hope someday you will understand how sorry i truly am and how badly i feel for the pain i have caused you. You have never done anything to deserve the pain and agony that i have put you through. You never had any fault in me choosing this affair. I know i have told you in the past that i blamed you for it, but truth is the affair was my choice, a very bad one, but it was my own choice.

I failed to tell you how i felt for a long time and perceived you not being able to read my mind as you not loving me anymore. I robbed you and myself of a good and happy marriage by withdrawing from you. It was my misperception that led to that withdrawal, i assumed something that wasnt true. The resentment that i felt afterwards was my own doing. I was the one that emptied out my love for you myself, with believing what i thought was true... what i was telling myself, and i let this affair happen. You never failed me, i failed you, myself and our marriage.

I am deeply sorry for the disrespectful ways that i have talked to you.. I have interrupted you when you were speaking, only "heard" what i wanted to hear to validate my own thoughts and feelings, not regarding yours. I have assumed to know how you feel even when you told me otherwise. I was bashing you in very disrespectful ways.

I knew how important it was to you to have a clean home to come home to, but i ignored you when you said something about it. I have said 'no' when you wanted to do things with me and found excuses, like the kids, not to do them. I am very very sorry for not paying attention to you and your needs in the marriage.

The things that i was missing in our marriage, i blamed you for lots of it, but they were of my own making. I am sorry i held you soley responsibility for my happiness and that blamed you when i was the one standing in my own way.

I have learned many things about myself that i never wanted to see. I never saw any of my own faults, but i was very quick to point to you, when in truth i was the one to blame. I always expected you to give everything, yet i was not the wife that i believed in my own head that i was.

I am sorry that it took me all this time and caused you so much pain to know my own faults, and that it has taken me that long to tell you how deeply sorry i am.

Please forgive me for my shortcomings as your wife, the problems that i had were selfcreated and not your fault. You have always done everything to make me happy and to care for me, you are an amazing person that has loved and cared for me unconditionally through all those years. You have always given so much and still do, and for that i want to thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Love always,

your humble wife

This just doesn't read very well. Maybe...

I failed to tell you how i felt for a long time that I interpreted from our relationship that you no longer loved me. I couldn't read your mind to know what you were really feeling.




The things that i was missing in our marriage, i blamed you for lots of it, but they were of my own making. I am sorry i held you soley responsibility for my happiness and then blamed you when i was the one standing in my own way.

I would wait for some more opinions. It does read better now.

thanks Traic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

guess my english isnt as good as i thought it was either...lol... i am glad that i am on an american forum and people whose native language is english help me out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />