I am writing with a question: is it ever too late in the game to request that your husband end contact with person he had an affair with? Let me provide some background. During a move to another state for a job change, I became aware that my husband of twelve years was having an affair. It was with one of his female coworkers. I knew they were friends (my husband has always had many female friends), but had no idea it had progressed to an affair. We were in the car driving back from a house- hunting trip in our soon-to-be new town when he dropped a bomb. He said, “Maybe I should stay for a job in our old town?” Milliseconds after he said that I blurted out, “You are involved with someone else aren’t you.” He was silent. To this day, I don’t know why I said that. In the back of my mind I must have known something was up. Consciously, I had never thought he had been cheating. In fact I could never have imagined he would do that. He was so loving and reliable, and I thought we were completely happy. We had common interests, passion for each other, seemingly open communication, and were best friends. He admitted that my accusation was correct. I pulled the car over, sobbed and wanted to die. My whole body and mind ached with such unbelievable pain, and for a few seconds, I seriously thought about throwing myself in front of one of the trucks traveling on the highway. I never knew I could hurt that much just from emotion.

Over the next day, I cried constantly and my husband and I talked things over. He used all the classic lines. That he hadn’t been happy with our relationship for a couple years… that he was having a midlife crisis… that I wasn’t “this or that” enough. Whenever I called it an affair, he tried to make me feel like that wasn’t what it was-- that he was just confused and longing for more in life, and that he needed to explore his feelings for this other woman or he would always wonder if he missed a chance at happiness. I am only now comfortable using the word affair to describe it, because that is clearly what it was and I need to get out of denial. He did continue to tell me that he loved me and he did seem to be in a great deal of emotional pain over the whole thing.

Despite being angry, I approached the whole situation rationally. I loved him so much and didn’t want to lose our marriage and didn’t want to make him mad. I wanted him to remember me as a loving, reasonable person, so I selflessly let him leave to spend time with this woman to sort out his feelings. Four days later he called me and said he loved me and that he wanted to go on a trip before I started my new job to help rekindle our passion. I agreed and we had an amazing, loving vacation together. It felt like old times, and I felt I had won him back except for one thing. During the whole trip his phone would buzz constantly, and I would see her name on the display. He talked to her numerous times a day on the phone, and he would go down to the Internet cafe to email her. It hurt so much to be sharing him like that, especially on a vacation that was supposed to be “our time”. I tried to ignore it, expressed that I hoped he would choose a life with me, and continued to show him what a loving wife I was. When we went back home, I traveled to the new state to start my new job while he stayed behind at our old home. He told me that our vacation had been amazing but that he was still sorting things out and needed more time. I gave him time, but allowing him this freedom when I was such an emotional wreck was the hardest, most painful thing I have done in my life. I had no one to talk to. I was in the predicament of desperately needing support from others, but not wanting to cause my husband embarrassment by letting friends and family know the details. I didn’t think I could afford a counselor. One week later, he showed up at our new home saying he was done with the whole thing and that he wanted to stay with me. I never found out what happened in those times when I allowed him time with her. Did she call it off? Did he? Was it a sexual relationship or purely emotional? I may never know and have not pushed for the answers. It only angered my husband when I asked for details, and I wanted to move on anyway.

Ten months have passed and we seem to be happily healing, and things are going well. The transition to a new state has given us new activities to enjoy together and has helped mend our relationship. He says he loves me and feels so stupid about what happened. I have forgiven him but still have huge trust issues that I hope will eventually wane. I still have moments of extreme sadness over this all, but I think I will eventually recover. My only worry is that I never thought to tell him to completely cut off all contact with the other woman. In fact, when he came home to me, he specifically told me that he wanted to remain friends with her and planned to stay in contact. I hadn’t read any advice on repairing a marriage and never went to counseling, so I didn’t know this was a big no-no. I trusted him when he said the relationship was over.

To get to my question after a very long posting: would it be appropriate at this stage in the game (ten months since affair ended) to ask him to stop contacting this woman? Expecially when I don't even know if they are talking/emailing on a regular basis? They did get together for a drink five months ago when we visited our old town and nothing seemed to come of it. Is my husband truly cured, or do I still need to watch out for this woman? If so, how can I possibly tell my husband to cut off all contact with her so late in the game? I think he will get mad and believe I am rehashing old happenings and am being unreasonable and paranoid. I just want to make sure our relationship is as affair-proof as possible, but I also don’t want to make my husband angry. I always walk on eggshells… I am afraid that if I make a mistake or make him angry that he will lose his love for me again.

You definately need to ask him to establish no contact. Otherwise, you really don't have much of a marriage or any intimacy, especially if you feel like you are walking on eggshells to keep him loving you.

Also, the AFFAIR needs to be thoroughly explored - what it involved, the reason it ended, the reason it happened. If you don't do the work now, you leave your marriage vulnerable to another affair. It never works to sweep everything under the rug.

***I am writing with a question: is it ever too late in the game to request that your husband end contact with person he had an affair with?***

In short: No.

Welcome to MB. I am sorry you have to be here, but under the circumstances it's the best place you could have found.

***Consciously, I had never thought he had been cheating. In fact I could never have imagined he would do that. He was so loving and reliable, and I thought we were completely happy. We had common interests, passion for each other, seemingly open communication, and were best friends.***

Plenty of people do this. It's a myth that affairs only happen in bad marriages. Plenty of people cheat because they can. It's just that simple. They don't think they'll get caught, they tell themselves it won't hurt anybody, and for whatever reason they are just lacking the moral brakes to put a stop to it.

My marriage was just like this, too.

***Over the next day, I cried constantly and my husband and I talked things over. He used all the classic lines. That he hadn’t been happy with our relationship for a couple years… that he was having a midlife crisis… that I wasn’t “this or that” enough.***

This is called "rewriting the marital history to justify his affair." It's very common - almost universal.

***Whenever I called it an affair, he tried to make me feel like that wasn’t what it was-- that he was just confused and longing for more in life, and that he needed to explore his feelings for this other woman or he would always wonder if he missed a chance at happiness.

He can call it a salami sandwich if he wants, but that does not change the fact that he lied to you and cheated on you. My WH, also, gets VERY angry if I use words like "affair, cheating, dating, or girlfriends."

***I am only now comfortable using the word affair to describe it, because that is clearly what it was and I need to get out of denial.***

Good. Never be afraid to speak the truth. I walked around in denial for years, too. Like some guy on TV says, "you can't change what you don't acknowledge."

***He did continue to tell me that he loved me and he did seem to be in a great deal of emotional pain over the whole thing.***

Well, just be careful. Some of these people can put on a very good act if they think it will keep you where they want you. Don't go by what he SAYS - go by what he DOES.

***Despite being angry, I approached the whole situation rationally. I loved him so much and didn’t want to lose our marriage and didn’t want to make him mad.***

There are many, many BS who "don't want to make their WS mad." They are the ones who suffer for years at the hands of a fence-sitting WS. Unless you believe he could be physically abusive - in which case you should get out -- you will have to learn not to fear his anger. Remember, both he and his girlfriend(s) are counting on your fear to keep you quiet and let them enjoy their time together without a fuss.

***I wanted him to remember me as a loving, reasonable person, so I selflessly let him leave to spend time with this woman to sort out his feelings.***

***Four days later he called me and said he loved me and that he wanted to go on a trip before I started my new job to help rekindle our passion. I agreed and we had an amazing, loving vacation together. It felt like old times, and I felt I had won him back except for one thing. During the whole trip his phone would buzz constantly, and I would see her name on the display. He talked to her numerous times a day on the phone, and he would go down to the Internet cafe to email her. It hurt so much to be sharing him like that, especially on a vacation that was supposed to be “our time”. I tried to ignore it, expressed that I hoped he would choose a life with me, and continued to show him what a loving wife I was.***

Okay - I am assuming you realize now that all you did was teach him that you will tolerate his affair even when you know about it and that there will be no consequences for his cheating.

***When we went back home, I traveled to the new state to start my new job while he stayed behind at our old home.***

Separations are tough on a marriage at any time, but an extremely bad idea when one of them has been (or still is) cheating. I am assuming you realize this now, too.

***He told me that our vacation had been amazing but that he was still sorting things out and needed more time.***

Translation: Thanks so much, hon, for not interfering with my affair and *still* being a great wife to me! I love having two women in my life and now it's her turn. I'll be back later when it's your turn again.

***I gave him time, but allowing him this freedom when I was such an emotional wreck was the hardest, most painful thing I have done in my life.***

And surely you also realize that no one should ever have to go through the enormous dirt-eating humiliation of sitting quietly at home while her husband takes the "freedom" to go screw another woman. I hope you will never, ever let any man treat you this way again.

***I had no one to talk to. I was in the predicament of desperately needing support from others, but not wanting to cause my husband embarrassment by letting friends and family know the details.***

As you will see, this was exactly the wrong thing to do. Everybody here is going to strongly recommend that you do the exact opposite. Stay tuned.

***I didn’t think I could afford a counselor. One week later, he showed up at our new home saying he was done with the whole thing and that he wanted to stay with me.***

Which was exactly what you wanted to hear, right? Yeah, he's good. And very, very typical.

***I never found out what happened in those times when I allowed him time with her. Did she call it off? Did he? Was it a sexual relationship or purely emotional? I may never know and have not pushed for the answers.***

Come on, hon - you know what they were doing. Nobody called off anything, unless maybe she got caught.

***It only angered my husband when I asked for details, and I wanted to move on anyway.***

Yup - he's counting on being able to use his anger to bully you into shutting up. And it works, doesn't it?

***Ten months have passed and we seem to be happily healing, and things are going well. The transition to a new state has given us new activities to enjoy together and has helped mend our relationship. He says he loves me and feels so stupid about what happened. I have forgiven him but still have huge trust issues that I hope will eventually wane. I still have moments of extreme sadness over this all, but I think I will eventually recover.***

It seems obvious that things all happy for him - and why wouldn't they be? - but you are still suffering terribly. And that is NOT "happily healing."

***My only worry is that I never thought to tell him to completely cut off all contact with the other woman. In fact, when he came home to me, he specifically told me that he wanted to remain friends with her and planned to stay in contact. I hadn’t read any advice on repairing a marriage and never went to counseling, so I didn’t know this was a big no-no. ***

Yup, this is the biggest no-no AND the biggest red flag. He has flat-out told you that he still plans on seeing her - and why not, since you didn't mind and if you do he'll just threaten you with anger until you shut up and back off.

***I trusted him when he said the relationship was over.***

tr, if this man said the sun was shining on a clear day I would advise you to go outside and see for yourself. He has proven that he cannot be trusted, and he will do nothing but hurt you as long as you do try to trust him unless and until he makes some very big changes.

***To get to my question after a very long posting: would it be appropriate at this stage in the game (ten months since affair ended) to ask him to stop contacting this woman?***

Uh - yeah. It would. He's MARRIED. Married people don't date. Right?

***Expecially when I don't even know if they are talking/emailing on a regular basis?***

Then you need to find out for sure. You do that by snooping. You will find much information here. Do Not Ask Him! He will only lie to you at this stage. You must find the truth for yourself, or you will never be able to believe it even when faced with it.

***They did get together for a drink five months ago when we visited our old town and nothing seemed to come of it.***

Well, "nothing" except for a married man taking his girlfriend out on a date. Do you really consider that to be "nothing?" I don't!

***Is my husband truly cured, or do I still need to watch out for this woman?***

Your husband is almost certainly still cheating. He has absolutly no reason to stop. And you need to watch HIM - not her.

***If so, how can I possibly tell my husband to cut off all contact with her so late in the game? I think he will get mad and believe I am rehashing old happenings and am being unreasonable and paranoid. I just want to make sure our relationship is as affair-proof as possible, but I also don’t want to make my husband angry. I always walk on eggshells… I am afraid that if I make a mistake or make him angry that he will lose his love for me again.***

And tr, your husband is using this fear to keep you a doormat and a servant and a second-class citizen in your own marriage. It sure is working for him - how's it working for you?

Okay. To start with: Please get the books *Surviving an Affair* and *His Needs, Her Needs.* The posters here refer to them often. You can order them through this site or often get them used & cheap on amazon.com.

While waiting for the books, read all you can on this site (not just the message boards - look up at the top where it says "Articles") on Plan A. I will add something here to get you started.

Good luck, and please keep posting.
Mulan

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"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

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Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I still find it hard to believe that my hubbie would purposely deceive me to that extent again. The affair seemed to sneak up on him before. He was very torn up about it when I found out... cried all the time, became depressed. This sadness didn't seem like an "act" or like he was trying to trick me consciously. I do believe he was sorry and wished it never happened. I don't think he was a fan of the dual relationship... in fact, through the whole thing it seemed pretty painful for him mentally. I do think he was trying out the two relationships to see which one made him happier and that he cared for this woman a great deal. Fortunately, he came home to me. Whether this was his choice or not, I may never know. I know the woman was in a committed relationship herself, so she may have decided to end the relationship with my husband.

My big fear is that he doesn't fully understand the power of this affair and this woman. That he is not trying to trick me, but really does believe that he can remain in contact with her and take it back to the "merely friends" level it probably started at. We live in another state now, so any contact with her would be by telephone or email. I don't see him spending a lot of time on the computer or phone anymore and he is home with me most of the time. Like I said, I can't believe my kind, sensitive (except for that affair) husband could be that mean and deceitful. I will say he doesn't seem to have a intrinsic moral opposition to this sort of behavior. On several occasions he has said that he doesn't think monogomy is natural. However, he is a person that usually displays a high level of loyalty and committment. He will usually try to do the right thing. This is what has been so confusing to me about this. Why I thought it might just be a slip-up and that it might really be over. Then again, I don't know what to think anymore.

As far as letting him hang out with this woman for a while to sort out his feelings-- it sounds like I was trying a "plan A" (which I only recently discovered). From the time I found out to the time he came back home to me was only about a month. I certainly wouldn't have kept that arrangement up for much longer. I was seriously preparing mentally for him to leave me.

Thanks for the suggestion on the books. I will look into getting some copies.

I will have to try to figure out how to bring up the "no more contact" thing. We haven't talked about the affair in ages and he will probably wonder where this is coming from. He has no idea I am still dealing with emotional problems from this. I am a very positive person who tends to look on the bright side. I tend to cover up painful memories and issues, believing it will all work out okay or go away on its own.

tr - if your husband refuses to help you with the damage he caused -- if he gets angry and defensive and insists that you "get over it" -- then you can bet the house that he has learned nothing from his cheating except that his anger will shut you up and he can stay free to pursue his "monogamy is not natural" lifestyle.

In other words, if he reacts like this then he still has the mindset of a WS - not a Spouse. And one thing you must understand - even a person who has been the nicest, kindest, most honest spouse in the world will morph into a lying, cheating monster when they are in WS mode. Do Not Let Him Fool You! Keep reading the stories here and I think you will see what I mean.

Another book you need is *Not Just Friends*, by Glass. Ask your husband to read this one and talk to you about it.

Ask him to look at *His Needs, Her Needs* and take the Emotional Needs questionnaire with you.

His reaction to these requests will tell you a lot.
Mulan