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Frank: I wish you would show the same concern for Dazed then you show for Mrs. Dazed. What happens if he harms Dazed? What happens if he harmes Dazed DD?

Oh…. Are you for real..???? You don’t care AT ALL about Dazed OR his Daughter….All you care about is ARGUING…CRITISIZING…. Then of course…. Running away…..



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You seem to be saying it is Dazed responsibility if anything happens to Mrs. Dazed. Dazed is not the one that went outside the marriage and started sleeping with a scumbag. She is responsible not him.


I seem to be saying???? NO…. I AM SAYING……….OF COURSE IT’S HIS RESPONSIBILTY….

SHE……..IS………HIS……….WIFE….. DUH…….. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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To even hint if Dazed grows a back bone that it will be his fault if anything happens to her is disgusting.

WHAT……in the WORLD………would….. YOU of all people KNOW……about having a BACKBONE????? Dazed has more of a backbone than you could come up with if you robbed a graveyard…….

And what is DISGUSTING…. Is the knowledge you pretend to have about this subject……it never ceases to AMAZE me……and the TOXIC BABBLE…. you spew all over this board…..you must have been VERY hurt in YOUR Marriage….
Oh… I forgot……we NEVER talk about YOUR marriage do we……nor can we call YOU by YOUR first name over and over.,….

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Plan A is fine but not for too long and certainly not for a spouse that refuses to commit to the marriage and still is having an affair.


Again you PROVE your ignorance to ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING related to this website…

Plan “A” is certainly not for a spouse that refuses to commit to a marriage….???????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ????

PLAN A WAS [color:"red"] DESIGNED [/color] FOR A SPOUSE IN AN AFFAIR THAT REFUSES TO COMMIT TO A MARRIAGE……..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />




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Frank so much of your advise is to live in fear. Don't confront or do anything no matter what she does. She might "leave" or she might get "angry". The problem if you accept behavior like this that is how you will be treated. Dazed will be far better off for her to leave if she does not commit to him.

My advice is not to (NO GET READY.....here comes a word that will be TOTALLY foreign to you…..) LOVE BUST….. (It’s a term used by Harley to NOT remove units from a love bank… (A love banks is…. Ah.,. Forget it)…. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think YOU are the one that lives in fear…. Ahhhh my wifey called me a bad bad name… she is abusing me…. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> Whaaaaaaa whaaaaaaa Please don’t talk to me like that…. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> It HURTS my fragile little feelings…….. Whaaaaaaaaaa Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Oh…. Poor poor Ihadenough……do you need a hug???

A REAL man like Dazed can “take the bullet for his marriage so his DD won’t grow up being tossed around like a beanbag her whole life…. And Dazed isn’t a quitter…..AND…… Dazed CAN read……SO HE GET’S THE PLAN HARLEY HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL 97% OF THE TIME WITH…. And unlike you evidently…. HAS the STRENGHT TO CARRY IT OUT…. Telling her to leave is SOOOO COMMON…..that ANYONE CAN DO …………THAAAAAT……. (insert 25 rolleyes here)


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I know you are critical of people that say anything but take the abuse but Dazed is the only one that can protect his daughter. His first priority should be that and not his wife.


I’m critical of people that say anything but take the abuse? I never said “Take the abuse” did I…. I’ve told him to stay in Plan “A” If that is the case then Steve Harley is telling him to “Take abuse“ ……DUH……


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Frank - even you say this guy is dangerous. She brought him into the marriage so she gets rid of him now or she goes. This is not even a close call I don't understand why we are even debating it.


Ok… more babble….YES this guy is dangerous…. So Dazed should save himself and his DD… and throw his Wife to the NUT CASE…..?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And you say Dazed should grow a backbone? What would YOU do if your W’s “friend” held a gun at you and your wife and your DD…
THROW YOUR WIFE IN FRONT OF HIM AND RUN AWAY WITH YOUR DAUGHTER……THAT…. IS really REALLY MANLY……

Oh… I forgot…..if your W talked to him at work it would be HER fault and SHE would DESERVE it??????

Listen IHadEnough your knowledge is not even at the INFANT stage of understanding this whole affair thing….. Trying to get you to UNDERSTAND THIS…. Is like trying to teach 3 year old to program a VCR….

Your advice is VERY common…. And so VERY VERY WRONG on how to deal with this….. You use words like “BACKBONE” and “ABUSE” and really don’t understand ANYTHING about those words….I don’t know if your wife is home or not because that is a secret I guess…but I PRAY… that she can not feel your hate of OPs…and I PRAY that YOU learn more about affairs before you continue to lash out and hurt peoples chances of forgiving their WS and recovering their marriages……

Can’t wait……….. FRANK

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Frank:

Personally I think it is EXTREMELY helpful for people to see YOUR posts and then also know "where you are coming from". It helps people get some perspective for what it is that you are saying, and allows them to put it in the proper context it deserves.

Enough said.

Cheers

LM


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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Hi Frank:

All of your post are about insulting people that do not agree with you. I could go through and insult everything you said but that is your game not mine.

One thing you need to read up on is love busting. You seem to think that if someones wife is out screwing other men it is a love busting to demand they stop. If that is the case then yes I am a love buster. There is no place in a marriage for going and screwing other people.

Yes, I have been to marriage counselors. Yes, I have seen them and yet they do not recommend you let your wife or husband treat you the way Dazed is being treated and yes they call it abuse. You don't think it's abuse i guess <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am not going to insult you about what happened in your marriage. It would be very easy to do that but I am not happy at what happened to you. It certainly does not give me any pleasure.

And yes Dazed should protect his daughter, he is the only one that can. You yourself called the guy a nut. He should protect his daughter and yes if his wife refuses to end all contact then let her go to the OM and get a RO he should cut her loose.

His priority should be his daughter and none of your insults is going to change my thinking. He is not a hero for not doing more to protect her. That should be his job.

I could start my insults on you but Frank you just are not that important to me. A lot of people agreed with me on that thread and no I am not going to keep responding to your insults. I find that people that insult like you did have to do it because your arguments do not hold up.

So Frank no I am not going to go tit-for-tat with you on insults. I wish you nothing but the best and I hope your life works out the way you want it.

But if you have a WS who refuses to commit to the marriage and continues cheating with what you call a nut job then treats their spouse like crap then yes they should be kicked to the curb. The BS and DD safety is far more important.

I won't respond to you on this thread anymore Frank, you are not worth my time. Best of luck though.

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Oh Lemonman.,... what a surprise that you enjoyed IHADENOUGH trying to discredit me.... you two are probably the same person....Batman and Robin at least..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

and... my "context" is PURE HARLEY and nothing more.... you guys just can't handle that....

At least you guys are leaving mortarman alone... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Oh Lemonman.,... what a surprise that you enjoyed IHADENOUGH trying to discredit me.... you two are probably the same person....Batman and Robin at least..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

and... my "context" is PURE HARLEY and nothing more.... you guys just can't handle that....

At least you guys are leaving mortarman alone... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Frank....

It's cool it really is.

I gotta to be honest with you boss, I don't have it "in me" to get into this pi$$ing contest with you...for the record, I didn't enjoy anyone so called discrediting you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> It is what it is. Nothing he said regarding your situation was false.

It is my sincere opinion that you are not a healthy individual.....in that you don't know what normal, functional behavior is. Your wife is mentally ill....she is probably at the severe end of ill....and yet you are here preaching the use of these principles with people like her who are NOT healthy.

There is no doubt that someone who has been through the things you have been through with her ( multiple breaks and psychiatric admissions)will be affected. I think you don't even have the slightest clue to how "affected" you are. Your story and saga and "beliefs" are extremely germain to what you preach.....Yeah, you can wrap it in all the "Harley" you want, but it is NOT healthy behavior. Because someone can stand in the ring for 10 rounds and get the living $hit beat out of them does NOT make them a hero. There is nothing strong about being a doormat.

Your a hypocrite bro. The very things you accuse others of....YOU DO !!!

I have no doubt that in your mind, you still think that you can somehow, someway...."recover" with your wife using these "principles". It is my sincere belief that what you have been encouraging to Dazed (ofcourse all well intentioned) is worse than someone on here encouraging affairs. Your motivations are probably not even evident to you.

Dazed's wife and her close association and open continued WILLFUL association with this other man who is so toxic to her daughter is sick.......disgusting. THIS ISN'T ABOUT DAZED's WIFE's otherman. It is about him and his inability to have any self respect or dignity or boundaries........AND YOU HAVE HELPED HIM TO CONTINUE TO DO THIS.

This is way more than an "addiction". When I see you post that Dazed should not let her go to the OM (because he is Nuts) than I know you don't "get it".....as if he has to "save" her...she is an adult...she has free will....she is doing what she wants to do...plain as day. His success at keeping in her in the house (which you somehow champion as some great feat) has done 100X more damage to him and his daughther than if she was AWAY from them in a rat motel. Yet, you can't see that.

Truthfully, I think Dazed should do everything you say...at least that way, we can stop having these rinse, repeat cycles here with this BS.

I think it is terrific that Dazed has you as his mentor...I really do. You should devote ALL OF YOUR TIME to his case...it will be in the end very benefical to everyone here.

and I truthfully mean that.

You can have the last word, and then lets agree to end this diatribe. It is not gonna go anywhere.

Sound good?

LM


Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.

I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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One thing you need to read up on is love busting. You seem to think that if someones wife is out screwing other men it is a love busting to demand they stop. If that is the case then yes I am a love buster. There is no place in a marriage for going and screwing other people.

Here comes the screwi** again…. You mean there’s no place in a marriage for going and screwing other people???? Let me write write that down……

FACT It’s not a LB to not accept it… it IS a LB to DEMAND ANYTHING…. That’s what I get when I READ… what do you read??


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I am not going to insult you about what happened in your marriage. It would be very easy to do that but I am not happy at what happened to you. It certainly does not give me any pleasure.

Isn’t that kind of backwards insult in itself?? And…. You CERTAILY seemed to enjoy what you “uncovered” back on Dazed thread….But to each his own…..
If I were remotely interested I would dig up YOUR past and see what I could “Find” to discredit you… but… I’m really not….

I will banter back and forth on a superficial level with you and lemonhead and a few others… but even to you guys…. I would NEVER try and hurt you like you tried to hurt me……

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And yes Dazed should protect his daughter, he is the only one that can. You yourself called the guy a nut. He should protect his daughter and yes if his wife refuses to end all contact then let her go to the OM and get a RO he should cut her loose.

As I said before….. Just THROW his wife to this nut?? Or endure a few insults and MAYBE she’ll wake up TOTALLY… because she IS waking up…… Like someone said…. 6 steps forward 5 steps back…..

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I could start my insults on you but Frank you just are not that important to me. A lot of people agreed with me on that thread and no I am not going to keep responding to your insults. I find that people that insult like you did have to do it because your arguments do not hold up.


My arguments are simply trying to keep people like you from fogging dazed into doing something OTHER than what the person that OWNS this site has been paid VERY handsomely BTW has told Dazed to do.



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So Frank no I am not going to go tit-for-tat with you on insults. I wish you nothing but the best and I hope your life works out the way you want it.


That’s because you can’t and I hope the same for you……

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But if you have a WS who refuses to commit to the marriage and continues cheating with what you call a nut job then treats their spouse like crap then yes they should be kicked to the curb. The BS and DD safety is far more important.


Can you PAAALEEESE direct me…….. To………. The………..link………..here………..on ………MB……………………to……………………..support……..your……….comments……….above……????

I won't respond to you on this thread anymore Frank, you are not worth my time. Best of luck though.

You are right I’m not worth your time……because you have more important things to do… like reminding these poor BSs about what sh**s their spouses are……. Good luck to you too……

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". It is my sincere belief that what you have been encouraging to Dazed (ofcourse all well intentioned) is worse than someone on here encouraging affairs.

Whew.... thanks for that.....I thought I would have to type a LONG answer when I started reading this....

But that... is simply RETARDED.......Retarded enough to give me a rest from all this C**P... Whew.... You actually had me going there for a while...


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Your motivations are probably not even evident to you.


Listen Sigmond..... give it a rest... go back to YOUR job and leave that to the professionals... and BTW I don't hate my parents and I wasn't sexually abused by a
neighbor when I was 5 years old either (in case that's your next lightbulb moment) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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Because someone can stand in the ring for 10 rounds and get the living $hit beat out of them does NOT make them a hero. There is nothing strong about being a doormat.


AND..... it doesn't mean you can fight if you run out of the ring in the first round because the guy headbutts you crying..... ABUSE....ABUSE......NO FAIR....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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Dazed's wife and her close association and open continued WILLFUL association with this other man who is so toxic to her daughter is sick.......disgusting. THIS ISN'T ABOUT DAZED's WIFE's otherman. It is about him and his inability to have any self respect or dignity or boundaries........AND YOU HAVE HELPE! D HIM TO CONTINUE TO DO THIS.


Actually..... all I did was keep control freek WS haters like you from getting Dazed off track from

WHAT STEVE HARLEY TOLD HIM TO DO.........not me..... Steve.....ahh.... the guy with the books....


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I think it is terrific that Dazed has you as his mentor...I really do. You should devote ALL OF YOUR TIME to his case...it will be in the end very benefical to everyone here


I'm no mentor.....as I said... and you KNOW you can't find ONE SINGLE TIME that I have "mentored" him that wasn't MB PRINCIPALS Of which YOU have no respect and no understanding of....WHATSOEVER....NONE.... NADA......

All done with you now....... but..... if you bash Dazed or Mortarman... or anyone..... we do this again K? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

and do me a favor..... read this site....so you will at least have a clue.......

..

..

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Frank - Listen to what Lemonman had to say. You have a lot of anger inside you. Your one of the most angry people I have never met.

Also, I am not the one that exposed your story if you want to call it that on the other thread. I also didn't think it made you look bad. I think the other person was just trying to point out that consequences and moving on with your life may entice a WS to come back.

And no it is not an LB to demand or "use any other word you want" that your spouse not screw other people. If you can't understand that then there is no hope for you.

On the other hand just keep on writing. It speaks volumes about you.

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Listen to what Lemonman had to say. You have a lot of anger inside you. Your one of the most angry people I have never met.
On the other hand just keep on writing. It speaks volumes about you


EVERYONE has anger inside of them.... I'm not an angry person... I just can't tollerate STUPIDITY AND IGNORANCE..... so yes.... am I angry at you and your "soul Mate" Lemonhead.... OF...... COURSE.....I am…

Especially when you two end EVERY post to me with little digs like "it speaks volumes...yada yada yada......
Well…. I can be VERY nice…. Or I can be JUST LIKE YOU……and WORST…. but the one thing I’ll NEVER do is back down from bullies……uninformed bullies like you two….. You’re like bubble gum……..to me…….

I have people like you and LH pegged and it pis**es you guys off.... I think people like you are just here to say words like Scr**ing and NEGATIVE bull**** to keep people like Dazed hurting...

You don't use ANY of the tools on this board and you even said yourselves you don't believe in Plan "A" or Plan "B" for that matter.... all you guys believe in is causing arguments.. and reminding people of the MOST PAINFUL parts of this nightmare.,... WHY? Does it make you feel better about your OWN situations??? To see people hurt from your words.…??? Is that some kind of turn-on?


NOT ONCE even in the VERY VERY beginning have either of you EVER EVER EVER encouraged Dazed AT ALL.....EVER..about ANYTHING..... You show when things get a little hard for him to drive him down.... that's all I see.......


Don't you think he KNOWS all the cra** you people remind him of?


Tell me.... (which you won't because like any BAD debater YOU NEVER ANSWER DIRECT QUESTIONS AND NEVER EVER EVER STAY ON SUBJECT) What can ANYONE draw from your babble.... and what oh what does it have to do with this website??? Reference me where you learned this on THIS WEBSITE.......

I have an idea why don't you two just go down to the VA hospital and remind the paraplegics they can't walk and how they will NEVER walk again....and tell them how STUPID the war is and how they need to get some courage.... and jump off a bridge because.....let's face it... their lives are over.....

It's the same thing as what you do here... and at least you'll be able to SEE them CRY........whata'ya think? Sound like fun to you??

From now on..IF you have to bother me…. Reference MB principals or I’m not wasting my time again…..because after all….WE ARE ON MARRIAGE BUILDERS.COM…. “get it” Not
DEMANDCONFRONTEXPOSEANDREMINDERSOFSFWITHOPANDPUNISHTHEWSHIDINGBEHINDPHONEYCAREFORACHILD/BUILDERS.COM “bro”

..

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pleasehelp. i want to let you know how much many of us here on the boared appreciate your standing up for dazed and confronting those posters who only spit vitriol and try and damage marriages. i was afraid that people would stop supporting dazed in his fight for the marriage after lemonheadman and ihadeenough and some others tried to derail him. frank you are a beautiful human being who expoouses all of the christian virtues of the harleys and of this board. you have helped so many people with your teachings and advice on how to follow the harley principals. i truly hope that the above posters who you have mentioned are banned from this site. you standing up to them and denounsing them and supporting dazed almost brings me to tears. i am afraid people are intimidated by those posters (cause they are doctors). but i can't imagine such ignorant and hateful and compassionless doctors. i thank you so much for putting them in there place here. it is people like you and mimi1254 and morterman who know about these principles and help the rest of us save our marriages. i hope and pray that you never leave this site and continue to help us learn and practice the harley principeles.

dazed is a model plan a and it is through his struggles and success with keeping his marriage alive that gave me hope. my husband has had some affairs but it is the support that you give and mimi and others that keeps fighting thru the years for this marriage and what is right. ihadenough and lemonman are divorced. they did not and could not use the principles to save there marriages. so i can't believe that people listen to them. i want to make sure people know that here. there were alot of people thanking you last night when you stood up to these bullies. from the bottom of my heart. thank you.
in hope and prayer
smolina

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smolina99,
That was soooo nice of you... and you have no idea how timely... God bless you for writing that… (and duck LOL)

I have a feeling that there are people that lurk mostly, like yourself, that don’t post their stories because of the “bullies” like LM and the other ones….
If that is the case for you or ANYONE that would like to email me (Now understand… I’m NOT an expert.. And ALL you’ll hear from me is what you can READ here anyway…but I think I do “Get it” so maybe talking to someone is better than reading from some??) and… aside from a few weak moments of frustration… I will try and keep it about what GOD wants….. That said… here is my email….
qualitycanvas@hotmail.com

I was on the phone today with LOSTVA (BTW..... If you don’t know about her you should REALLY look up her story of recovery.....PURE PLAN"A" (or like Dazed likes to call it PLAN LOVE....) Here’s a link….. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/dosearch.php?Cat=0&Searchpage=1&topic=

And I was telling her how I wasted so much time last night arguing with those knuckleheads.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And we talked about the “Good Ole Days” when most EVERYONE was kind and the cry was “Divorce is NOT an option!!”
We vented and cried and yelled and moaned to each other….. And what we got back was….. YOU CAN DO THIS…… Tell me more how you feel…. TELL ME…….NOT your WS…. Tell me….

Now… as you know…. IF you vent here…. The Plan “B” pack of haters come out to poison your heart….

I have no problem with people saying “Plan “B” that UNDERSTAND Plan “B” but the ones that think it’s a “trick” to wake up a WS are so wrong….

Also smolina99, the way they put OTHER people’s spouses down calling them aliens and sluts and what have you NEVER EVER happened here before….. Hey…..you LOVE YOUR HUSBAND…..WHY would I say those things about him……. Only if I didn’t understand the “whys” and “how’s” of an affair…..something I learned from the Harleys……they also feel that “loving” your WS back is weakness and being a doormat…

I like best what Mrs. Wondering said…..


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IF* I wasn't a FWW who has seen very clearly what you most certainly have not, and that is...THE GRACE, THE GENTLE STRENGTH, THE SELFLESSNESS, THE LOYALTY, THE HEROISM, THE TRUE AND DEEP LOVE of a BS in Plan A...I have said many times on this site, that I believe that this is the closest match to the love of Christ that a human will ever be able to emulate here... you have NO idea what THAT is like...I've seen it up close...it is VERY REAL in my life...it would AWE you, as it would anyone...Mr. W takes my breath away with the way that he loves me now and with the way he loved me even then...in the face of my very cruel betrayal of him...You have NO IDEA the kind of respect and admiration that I have for him because of the way he did what he did...what my husband did, and what Dazed is doing, IS the very definition of AMAZING GRACE...

That….is RIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH…

And Lostva and I and Morterman and MANY others have heard the same from our spouses….and more…..

Here is a song my wife sang to me at Karaoke one night BEFORE she finally decided to come home….. Copy it all you BSs…. Because this is what your WS s will feel for you if you have the courage to put this in GOD’S mighty hands and NEVER give up…..

MY ONE TRUE FRIEND…. by BETTE MIDLER

And now, is it too late to say
How you made my life so different in your quiet way
I can see the joy in simple things,
a sunlit sky and all the songs we used to sing.

I have walked and I have I prayed.
I could forgive and we could start again.
In the end, you are my one true friend.

For all, all the times you closed your eyes,
allowing me to stumble or to be surprised,
by life, with all its twists and turns.
I made mistakes, you always knew that I would learn.

[color:"red"] And when I left, it's you who stayed.
You always knew that I'd come home again.
In the end, you are my one true friend.



Though love may break, it never dies.
It changes shape, through changing eyes.
What I denied, I now can see.
You always were the light inside of me. [/color]




Smolina99 and all the other BsS here…. Be strong….be kind…. And be about what’s RIGHT in YOUR HEART…..

GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS…. FRANK

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thank you so much frank. that post above was beautiful. i was not here in the good old days but i so wish for those days to be back. people like you and mortarmen and mimi and others who have saved or our in the process of recovering marriages are what this site should be about. i have not posted threads becasue of people like lemonnman and ihadenough and justsopeachy because they are not helpful to the many of us who are saving marriages. they preach intolerance and selfishness. and did you know also divorced. i dont blame them for that but i know they did not follow the principles or they would be happily living married now. so if they are not a solution to the problem then they are part of the problem.
i am so happy your wife came back to you. that karoake song was so inspirational to me so i can imagine how wonderful it was for her. my husband has had many affairs and has some small trouble with alchohol and keeping a job but he is a good man and father and christian man. there is one ow who keeps temtping him and luring him with the evil apple. if she would leave our lives we could make it. i know it. divorce is not an option for us frank. unlike so many of those people who preach divorce and plan b..that is not what i am about. i value marriage and my vows so much.
someone like lemonman who councels divorce should have his postings banned. i am gonna ask that justus ban him. please help me with this. can i email you about doing this.
i know that if my wonderful dear hubby could just come to this board or talk to steve or william harley he could be saved. would you mind if i had him email you. i think he needs someone like you to help mentor him. i am going to talk to him and poja this with him. we dont have the money for the phone sessions but i did buy the books at a second hand store. thank you for giving us all hope and fighting the evil of those other posters. you have inspired me to fight it also.
bless you
smolina

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i am so happy your wife came back to you


I don't want to mislead you or anyone here but although she did come back after divorcing me....MARRYING the OM....(for 6 months) Divorcing OM and re-marrying me again.... sadly... she has left again and filed for divorce from me again.... My wife has had serious emotional problems for most of her life 20 years that I know of.... and if you email me (which I hope you do) I will tell you the WHOLE story if you'd like.

For obvious reasons I'd rather not on this thread at this time.....

But I hope hearing that hasn't discouraged your faith in Marriage Builders Principals Or Marriage in general.... I am dealing with satan....a very clever (and fairly wealthy) OM AND.... my wife's almost overwhelming emotional instability......

If anything... (as I was told when I FIRST came back)it is a TRUE testament to God's Power and Harley's principals that we did get as for as we have.....I would have been lost without either......

Like you dealing with a Christian husband is a GREAT advantage over a lot of situations here… God… WILL fight for your Marriage…..

Anyway…. Enough said (especially on this thread…..whew..) Again…. You email me…. Have your husband email me and again… ANYONE that is afraid to post here and believes in MB principals and hopefully God's are welcome (but don't let that deter you either....because... God probably brought you here.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />..

GOD BLESS your heart smolina99 and your Marriage….

GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS…. FRANK

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[color:"red"] As I said before….. Just THROW his wife to this nut?? Or endure a few insults and MAYBE she’ll wake up TOTALLY… because she IS waking up…… Like someone said…. 6 steps forward 5 steps back….. [/color]


There reaches a point in ALL of the sad affair-based stories that are found here, where the BS MUST save themselves and any children from the MADNESS of the WS...the BS is the ONLY adult capapble of rational thought and, after a period of time (its different for everyone), the BS HAS to let go...

18 months ago, I would have jumped on a grenade to save XW... now...I look out for ME because she SHOWED through ACTION that she did NOT care about me.

How much LBing and horrid treatment must a BS endure before he/she SAVES themselves?

When violence (threatened or real) is involved, it takes a HERO to toss the WS overboard to SAVE the child...there is no other way.

Rant off...


43yr old FWH who has rediscovered morality Divorced: 03 February 2006 XW: My threads say it all "Well, I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life..."
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No rant from this guy....I want to point everyone to the first post in this forum...so instead of a rant I express an OPINION...in the form of a question:

Why is it that there are people who need to interpret the pinciples of this place? Is it biblical? And just like the bible there are folks who still don;t get it!! Misguided is what I call it....From what I see this person should consult with Dr. Harley...for guidance because I happen to be in LM's corner on this case. There are SIGNIFICANT issues in this case that are not being addressed. Sometimes when a person lights themselves on fire all you can do is try to put the fire out...you don't need to throw yourself into the fire to prove anything.....I think this entire thread should be locked up, it's become a bunch of dogs marking territory...

ok...maybe that was a rant..

Last edited by Send me on my way; 04/22/06 07:20 AM.

Me BS - 44
FWW- 42
EA for 4 years with fellow employee
became PA in Jan 04 - I knew of this one.
Seperated/ Divorced July 03
2 sons 14 & 12
D Day -6/26/04- PA in 1998 for about 1 year- I had NO idea.
recovery and reconciliation began 6/27/04

Remarried 2/18/06

My story?? Click below.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=129980&Number=1575914
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Sadly, this site not only supports people who wish to recover from adultery, it also supports those who are in the throes of co-dependence and abuse.

As with all people who are comfortable being involved in unhealthy relationships, anyone who dares expose their sickness will be deemed "hateful"..."compassionless".."evil"

smolina..the good old days? You've posted 7 times and a junior member?

You consider pleasehelp's posts as being Christian but they are condesending and rude. Did Christ ever speak to anyone in such a way? You also say your husband is a Christian but he "has had many affairs, has some small trouble with alcohol, and keeping a job but he is a fine man, a good father and Christian man." I wonder what your definition of a fine man is. What does the Bible say about adulterers, those who abuse alcohol and a man's responsibility to his family?

You blame his affair on the ow? That's exactly what Adam did in the Garden of Eden, he blamed his sin on Eve. God is not fooled. Your husband commits adultery because he wants to commit adultery. Just as dazed and pleasehelp's spouses. Just as everyone who gets involved with adultery.

Coming to this board, talking with Steve or William Harley is not going to save your husband. I thought you said he was a Christian man so what exactly is the need for "saving."

Just remember when you're pointing your finger at others proclaiming how horrible they are, remember three fingers are pointing back at yourself.

If you are a poster that has created a new name to reinforce your posts, it wouldn't be the first time now would it..Mimi...

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i have not posted threads becasue of people like lemonnman and ihadenough and justsopeachy because they are not helpful to the many of us who are saving marriages. they preach intolerance and selfishness. and did you know also divorced. i dont blame them for that but i know they did not follow the principles or they would be happily living married now.

I beg your pardon? Many people on this forum HAVE followed the principles of MB and had their marriages end in divorce. Sometimes the definition of success *IS* divorce, I am sad to say. Not all marriages can be saved. This is NOT the save-your-marriage-at-all-costs program and no one has ever claimed as such.

Some of our most HELPFUL and KNOWLEDGABLE posters are divorced, and I would place justpeachy, Lemonman and IHadEnough in that category. They have helped NUMEROUS people on this forum over the years.

Not even Dr. Harley would be so arrogant to proclaim that his principles can save every marriage. That is NONSENSE, my friend. Dr. Harley himself has even RECOMMENDED divorce in some cases.

Not even Jesus Christ believed that all marriages could - or should - be saved which is why he gave an OUT for adultery.

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someone like lemonman who councels divorce should have his postings banned. i am gonna ask that justus ban him. please help me with this. can i email you about doing this.

While you are at it, why not see if you can get DR. HARLEY banned because he occasionally recommends divorce? Your email should give Justuss a good chuckle. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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they preach intolerance and selfishness.

Did you REALLY want to say that after you just posted one of the most intolerant, sanctimonous posts I HAVE EVER READ here in 5 years? Can you say H.Y.P.O.C.R.I.T.E.? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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A person should not Plan A an active WS for a lengthy period of time or indefinitely.

In one of my many counseling sessions with Steve Harley, he said to me "on average a person can Plan A only for approximately 3 weeks because it is so emotionally injurious to them because they have removed all their boundaries".

Therefore, when we encourage someone to continue their Plan A well past its intended shelf life, we are doing them a disservice.

I defer to Distressed's post below which succinctly characterizes this widespread misapplication of Harley's Plan:

[color:"blue"]I may be opening up a can of worms, but I read so many posts from people struggling with the implementation of Plan A that I thought I'd open up a philosophical discussion. Before expressing my opinions, I need to be clear that I myself did do Plan A for about 18 months in total. So when I'm critical, accept that I'm criticizing my own behavior in the hopes that others can learn. Here goes.

I am a great believer in the Harley methodology and it helped me work through a horrible situation. However, I am convinced that there is no greater misunderstanding and misapplication of techniques than in the betrayed's use of Plan A. FAR, FAR too many betrayed's seem to believe that if they stop love busting, go to great efforts to meet the wayward's needs (while the affair continues), and don't bring up OR talks or any issues, their spouses will eventually come back. While the spouses sometimes do come back during Plan A, it is my strong belief that their coming back is much more related to the natural death of their affairs than any action the betrayed is taking.

Plan A serves one narrowly defined purpose only. Its purpose is for the betrayed spouse to demonstrate for the wayward spouse the behavior he/she is capable of should the wayward ever decide to return to the marriage. That's it. It does not and cannot be used to: 1) win the spouse back from the OP, 2) recreate love from the wayward while the affair continues by meeting emotional needs, 3) unconditionally demonstrate love and self-sacrifice from the betrayed, or 4) create guilt within the wayward.

While the positive aspects of Plan A are useful, they come with a very high negative cost if it goes on too long. The backlash to the betrayed's self-esteem grows over time as disrespectful behavior from the wayward is not only tolerated, but often rewarded. The betrayed forgets what it's like to respect him/herself, and just accepts whatever crumbs the wayward offers. Worse still, the betrayed remains so engrossed in the effort to meet the emotional needs of the wayward, that they're not focusing on developing a separate life. This doesn't always happen, but it happens far more often than it should.

I believe the Harley's are frequently misunderstood about Plan A. Their intent is for a SHORT Plan A, just to demonstrate the changes. Normally, they recommend going to Plan B at separation or after just a few months of Plan A. Plan B is almost always necessary according to the Harley's. Their advice is clear, but many people do not apply it as advised. Plan A goes way too far.

Unfortunately, it's best to accept that once someone decides to leave, whether they choose to come back is completely out of the control of the betrayed. The primary influences on the wayward's behavior are some combination of the state of the affair and the character of the wayward, not the actions of the betrayed. That's why Harley says go to Plan B and stay there. It's basically designed to allow a maximum waiting period for the affair to end. [/color]

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Sadly, this site not only supports people who wish to recover from adultery, it also supports those who are in the throes of co-dependence and abuse.


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As with all people who are comfortable being involved in unhealthy relationships, anyone who dares expose their sickness will be deemed "hateful"..."compassionless".."evil"
[/quote]



definition of evil-minded. ... Having evil dispositions or intentions; disposed to mischief or sin; malicious; malignant; wicked


As With the others…..WHAT have you contributed to helping either smolina…. Dazed….recover their marriages? Or for that matter….. any people afraid to post because of people that rant….USELESSLY like you do…..

And…. In case you haven’t figured this out yet…..IT IS UP TO THE PERSON/PERSONS THAT ARE ACTUALLY IN the relationship to determine wht is or is not “Unhealthy” Not you or me or ANYONE……. They know what they feel more than you……or anyone…. OBVIOUSLY….Dazed isn’t abused because he’s strong enough to ignore his Wws infantile remarks……

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smolina..the good old days? You've posted 7 times and a junior member?
DUH…. She was longing for the “Good ole days” that I WAS TELLING her about…BTW you’ve been around here for a while… why is it you are like this?

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You consider pleasehelp's posts as being Christian but they are condesending and rude.


I’ll give you that… I certainly CAN be condescending and rude…..but….ah….. I’m NOT Christ and EVERY Christian is at a different level in his “walk”

I was once told that the difference between a “Christian” and a “Non Christian” is that a Christian walks on the right road MOST of the time… he TRIES to stay on the right road BUT wanders off once in a while…. While a non-Christian walks on the WRONG road MOST of the time and once in a while is on the right road (if you use what GOD expects as the road)

Should I be involved in angery. Rude and condescending posts like this as a Christian?

Absolutley NOT….however…. Whenever the “haters” come out I get angry…. And I speak my mind…… and I try to talk to them on THEIR LEVEL….because… let’s face it…. You can‘t speak English to a Native Italian that doesn‘t SPEAK English… can you?

(even Christ himself got angry in the Temple) and I won’t back down from these people that come out only to critize and taunt…..NO WAY.. BRING’M ON…..!!!!!!!

HOWEVER….99.9% of MY posts are encouraging….loving and backed MB principals or Bible principles (Which…. I think Plan “A” is more BIBLICAL than MB…)


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Did Christ ever speak to anyone in such a way?


Yes… in the temple……

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You also say your husband is a Christian but he "has had many affairs, has some small trouble with alcohol, and keeping a job but he is a fine man, a good father and Christian man." I wonder what your definition of a fine man is. What does the Bible say about adulterers, those who abuse alcohol and a man's responsibility to his family?

Again… you are misinformed… (and RUDE) to state the above….

I think MOST non-Christians misunderstand this more than ANYTHING……..Christians aren’t and most don’t pretend to be perfect or “above” anything that can happen to a non-Christian.. Some of us drink… swear……cheat…..steal….lie……murder…….whatever…..

The difference I think I mentioned above…. We LIVE to TRY and do what God EXPECTS of us….we ALL FAIL…. ALL OF US…. OVER AND OVER ….WE FAIL…
God KNEW we would fail…. That is why he sent his beloved son to DIE for our sins…..

BUT… God (I believe) expects us to REALLY REALLY try…..NOT to sin…

So… the TRUE defintion of a “Good Christian man” IMHO is one that TRULY TRIES to do God’s will…..and when he FAILS…..he is TRULY REMORSEFUL for disobeying God…..and THEN…… TRULY TRIES…..TO never sin again…….Fair enough?







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You blame his affair on the ow? That's exactly what Adam did in the Garden of Eden, he blamed his sin on Eve. God is not fooled. Your husband commits adultery because he wants to commit adultery. Just as dazed and pleasehelp's spouses. Just as everyone who gets involved with adultery.

Yes… the OPS ARE responsible for the affair…..just as the WS is….. AND…..BTW as long as we’re talking about God here…the BS is responsible somewhat too as God warned us about “keeping ourselves from out spouses in a way that will lead into temptation”

Did God punish Adam as well as Eve even though it was Eve that tempted Adam? OH YES.. Because Adam had free will just as our WSS do….. BUT God ALSO punished satan….who USED Eve to get to Adam… didn’t he? Eve wasn’t evil….satan was and brought evil into the garden….as in a way Ops do….they MUST be driven by “the enemy…..because they bring evil into the marriage…..

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Coming to this board, talking with Steve or William Harley is not going to save your husband. I thought you said he was a Christian man so what exactly is the need for "saving."


Her husband is already saved…. The Bible says that a Believeing spouse can save a non-believing spouse anyway…. But… again… he’s got to STOP his sin for God to forgive him…..BTW God will use ANYONE and ANYTHING to bring one of his home… I TRULY believe God led me here…I have grown closer to him as a result of this nightmare and for the most part I ONLY depend on God for my peace now… not my WW not ANYTHING but him…. I do my best at least…..

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Just remember when you're pointing your finger at others proclaiming how horrible they are, remember three fingers are pointing back at yourself.
If you are a poster that has created a new name to reinforce your posts, it wouldn't be the first time now would it..Mimi...

We KNOW that.. And we know judge and be judged…..BUT…. We aren’t perfect we just try harder…. What is this about her getting another user name? Maybe it was to avoid people like you?

So…. That’s it I guess other than you KNOW it was pretty despicable of you to bash a person that openly stated she was afraid to post because people may bash her….. I hope you feel better about yourself….you’re a BIG MAN aren’t you…..

Sorry smolina..EVERYONE..... LEAVE HER ALONE... I'LL PLAY WITH YOU IF YOU'D LIKE.....

GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK

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