Herb,

I'm no expert, just the average BS. In your case it sounds like she's chin deep in the fantasy world. Do you want to work on your marriage? Have you read HNHN? Do you understand the MB ideas? If not, read, read, read. Get Harley's book on surviving an affair. Does your wife know you want to save the marriage? Have you read about plan A? What you are telling me sounds a lot like what other WS say. It's all WS chatter.

Have you exposed the affair to her family & friends? The beautiful "relationship" isn't so beautiful when she realizes everyone she knows and loves understands she's committing adultry. I'm sure it kinda takes away some of the warm and fuzzies they get. Adultry is such a ugly word.

If you want to save your marriage you better be ready for a lot of hard work but it can be done and you may end up with a better marriage than before. That's my goal and I think my wife and I will get there. Just a shame that it took this to get us there.

HS

Say to your WW...

"I am doing whatever I can to save the most important marriage in the whole world ... ours. Can I bring you a cup of coffee?"

It is GOOD WW knows that the affair is being discussed behind her back ... it is a good motivator to stop hiding in the shadows.

Pep

Perhaps I should take it to another thread. I don't want to infringe on another's thread. I'll paste your quote over in my own.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...c=1#Post3001078

Thanks : )

You said:

"The OM in my case seems to be an extremely good "fit" for her... he's actually a decent guy from what I've gathered."

Herb, decent rational thinking people don't [censored] someone elses wife. Sorry for being blunt.

HS

Don't worry about the WW knowing you called the OM's W. No big deal. She would have found out some way, anyway, and still be mad.

Everything your WW is doing is textbook. They all think their particular situation is unique and special, when truthfully, all affairs are pathetically similar. So is the behavior of the WS.

Read some of the other threads here in GQII, and you'll begin to see how ordinary and common affairs are. You'll also read a lot of good advice that others have received.

Remember, this is a long process, and will take patience and resolve to get through, so don't get in a rush. Helping the A come to an end, and eduring a WS passing through withdrawal is only the beginning. Recovery is just as hard, if not harder.

But worth it, if you truly love your W.

SD

Well put Shattered_Dreams. I'll second what he said!

FA,

Look at it this way. I'm not sure how many people are going to feel sorry for someone who is actively committing adultry. If their "relationship" is so wonderful why is she upset that you simply talked with the OM's wife? If everything was hunky dorey wouldn't it make no difference to her. Sounds like she's starting to blame you for her actions.

HS

Again, I don't wish to infringe on someone else's thread, so I'll post your quote onto my own. Thank you for your advice.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...c=1#Post3001078

I would have to think she's upset because he's trying to decide for her what is best for her by trying to ruin her new relationship. I bet she thinks that everything would be just fine if her ex were out of the way and would resent him for causing the OM to break up with her when they could have been "oh so happy" together. It probably wouldn't matter to her ... the thought probably would never cross her mind that the OM running away from her because of her ex shows how little he is committed to her. At least that's where I think my wife is right now, mentally...

She just called back to apologize for acting "juvenile". Then the conversation went quickly downhill.

WW: We need to come up with an alternate living arrangement.
Me: You need to give me a little time to get my head straight, it was less than a month ago that you said you wanted to get divorced.
WW: How long will this go on for, I've been asking for a separation for over 2 months.
Me: I've explained to you I don't feel comfortable simply letting you go spend more time with OM.
WW: This isn't about him, it's about us, blah, blah, blah...
I don't want to be married to you. I thought you'd be willing to work with me for the sake of the children.
Me: For the sake of our children I am willing to work with you on our marriage.
WW: Do you think it will be good for the children to grow up in an environment where their parents don't love each other? That will leave them very f%^*ed up.
Me: You're simply teaching them that it's okay to quit. Do you honestly believe this isn't going to scar them?

The weekend definitely isn't looking up...

"WW: This isn't about him, it's about us, blah, blah, blah...
I don't want to be married to you. I thought you'd be willing to work with me for the sake of the children.
Me: For the sake of our children I am willing to work with you on our marriage."

FA - that was very good. Stand up for your children man.

Does she not understand the part where kids don't like being with a parent when they are living with OP? Is she willing to sacrifice her kids for this jacka$$?

I've said this before but...here goes again...she's not going to listen to flippen word you say. It has to come from someone else. The whole ugly story about affairs and where it is taking her, you and the kids. Even the jacka$$ is going to lose. No good is going to come out of this.

You need to be able to sit back and create a home environment that looks pretty damn good. When you talk to her it's going to consist of a ton of LB's. The LB's are just going to reinforce her thoughts about why she wants out. How do we get her educated on the destructive nature of affairs? One last time... You can't be the one to give her this information.

This is the WS Fantasy at work. By not cooperating with the fantasy, you are causing her a good bit of frustration. That's to be expected, so don't let it rattle your cage.

You know, everybody goes through these periods of hopelessness and doubt. And there's no guarantee on the outcome. But if you look around at the recovered couples here on the forum...the struggle was worth it.

When a BS is in the thick of battle, it's difficult to believe that what you're fighting for is going to be something worth having. It's easy to give up then, because you don't believe in your heart that the love your spouse had for you can ever return. But it can. And in truly recovered couples it's better than ever.

You're about to hit a rough patch. But if you hang in there, you might just win your family back. And if it turns out that your marriage cannot be recovered, the MB method will help you prepare for that eventuality as well.

You'll need to be thick-skinned for awhile though. You have to be able to recognize "fog babble" when you hear it. If what comes out of her mouth supports her 'WS Fantasy' and isn't grounded in the reality of the situation....it's babble. Treat it as such and don't let it under your skin. She's going to twist like a skewered snake whenever you poke holes in the 'affair bubble'. She's going to say awful things to you...and she knows where your buttons are, so she'll be striking close to home too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

But you will find Plan A to be sooooo much easier when you recognize that she has an agenda, and everything she says and does is designed to forward that agenda along. It's got NOTHING to do with you really, no matter how bad she makes it sound. This is all about protecting her affair.

Your Plan A is already making things difficult for her. As she faces indecision, the volume of her protests goes up. She's got to hurry before she chickens out. The OM might be pressuring her for a committment, but here you are...a great guy who's making her doubt her choices. If she can get you to fight with her, she can get you to validate all the reasons why she thought it was a good idea to leave to begin with. She WANTS conflict. Conflict makes her decision easier to bear.

So don't give it to her. Plan A instead. You don't want her to have an excuse to justify her bad behavior.

It's good that you're seeing a lawyer, btw. She'll eventually give up on trying to manipulate you into leaving and then she'll have to go the legal route. Best to be prepared in advance. If your lawyer is on retainer and ready to file your motions at a moments notice...you'll be in better position to keep temporary custody of the children and possession of the family home. You'll probably want to file first if it comes to all that, so you need to be prepared in advance.

I don't think I'd be forthcoming right now in telling my spouse I'd seen an attorney though. No need to rile her up until you absolutely have to. That's the kind of conflict that would make her real happy in justifying her actions. So, play your cards close to your chest. Radical Honesty is for spouses...not space aliens, right?

She's going to be turning the heat up. Meet it with Plan A. Don't let her manipulate you into helping her deconstruct your family dynamic. Afterall, she's not a prisoner. She's free to leave. She can always make that choice. But YOU have choices too. You can choose NOT to assist her in removing you or your kids from the family home.

FA...how's it going. Any update on your sitch? Hope you are doing ok!

SD

Things were getting pretty tense this weekend, so I took the kids to visit their grandparents on Saturday night. I guess I'm taking a "pick your battles" approach right now.

WW is still intent on separating, but not intent on taking the initiative to do so. I've pointed out to her that I can't afford two households for the extended separation that our no-fault state requires. She's talking about trying to get more hours at work, we'll see where that goes. She also has no interest in being the one to leave. So we're pretty much at a stale mate right now.

I've tried to back off on posting and reading a little because I find myself obsessing about how I'm going to resolve this situation. It's been very hard, but I'm finally coming to terms with the fact that this is a long, agonizing process and that it cannot be resolved unless my WW chooses to participate.

I also find it very hard to stay off her emotional roller coaster. Her temperament seems to change on an hourly basis...

Things were getting pretty tense this weekend, so I took the kids to visit their grandparents on Saturday night. I guess I'm taking a "pick your battles" approach right now. Picking your battles should consist of standing by your boundaries at this point. The rest you'll have little impact on, regardless of what you do.

WW is still intent on separating, but not intent on taking the initiative to do so. I've pointed out to her that I can't afford two households for the extended separation that our no-fault state requires. She's talking about trying to get more hours at work, we'll see where that goes. She also has no interest in being the one to leave. So we're pretty much at a stale mate right now. This works out well, that she's not leaving regardless of the negative impact on finances, etc. Plan A is much easier done when you are together. Chalk this up as a victory.

I've tried to back off on posting and reading a little because I find myself obsessing about how I'm going to resolve this situation. It's been very hard, but I'm finally coming to terms with the fact that this is a long, agonizing process and that it cannot be resolved unless my WW chooses to participate. LOL! You'll obsess over this for some time, so you might as well be here, posting and reading, learning, because for this battle, Marriage Builders is as good a weapon as you will find. If you haven't bought Surviving an Affair yet, please do, and STUDY it, so you know how the entire philosophy works. Read other threads to see how consistant the WS's behavior is, and you'll learn from responses to others.

I also find it very hard to stay off her emotional roller coaster. Her temperament seems to change on an hourly basis... This will continue so long as she's involved in an A. A constant state of waivering will be her norm, and will drive you crazy. Many WS will even intentionally engage you, or bait you into arguments, which they use as a way of justifying to themselves what a horrible spouse YOU ARE, which in their foggy brain translates to how WONDERFUL THE OM IS. So don't get sucked in when she baits you.

Thanks for the update. Hang in there, you'll get through this. This forum will be as much help as you allow it to be. It's a resouce that helped me save my marriage, and can do the same for you, if that's your goal.

Best wishes,
SD

Bad news. I found an attorney's card on her desk tonight. Looks like things are going downhill quickly...

There's a big difference between sticking your toe in the pool or going off the high board straight in. Stay in Plan A, and let her digest the realities of what a D means, coming directly from an attorney. However, you should have a quality attorney in your back pocket, just in case she chooses to pull the trigger. The fog is a terrible place to make decisions from.....

SD

FA,

How's it going? I agree with SD, make her pull the trigger and stick to your "plan A" gun. If I were you I wouldn't shy away from this site. I learn something new just about everytime I come here. As the BS I really needed the whole concept of the "A" not being my fault beat into my head. That all came after reading and talking with people here. Did you setup an appointment with SH?

HS

Yes, I have an appointment with SH on Friday.

I agree that this site has been extremely valuable in helping me stay positive. But, I'm very confused about what to do right now. I asked her about the attorney last night and she replied that she is just exploring her options since I appear to have no interest in negotiating a separation. We then had a nice conversation in which I was able to open up a little and discuss EN's with her. She appears to enjoy seeing how much I'm learning about myself, but inevitably we always get back to the topic of separation. She is as obsessed with splitting up as I am with reconciling. She's also very obsessed with control right now. She feels as though she's always been under someone's control - her father, while growing up and through college and me once we married. She is on a strong, independent woman kick right now. She wants to show the world that she can make her own decisions and stick with them regardless of the consequences.

She also spoke about how she felt that we've been slowly losing our personalities. There is definitely some truth to this since our time has been consumed raising 3 young children. But, I relished in the fact that my personality was transforming into a good father and good provider. I believe I was a good husband as well, I simply wasn't doing a great job at meeting my wife's top EN's. That said, I do not believe the A is my fault. She will admit that she's made mistakes as well, but obviously isn't too concerned with my EN's right now...

Because she continues to communicate with the OM and indicates no interest saving the marriage I feel as though Plan B is inevitable. Hopefully SH can shed a little light.

FA

Hey FA,

How did things go with Steve today?

HS