L2,

I could tell you lost your focus and now, you have found it again. I'm here to help you argue yourself, L2...wrestle your own beliefs causing you a lot of pain. Here they are:

"I know that there is a reason that WW is straying, and has to do with both of us..." No. No. Her choice to stray is hers alone. Period. You are not making you a better you so she will be a better her. Do not do to yourself what you've done with your wife...say you respect her opinion when you really don't. Know that being wayward is a choice...nowhere near a conscious one, yet one nonetheless.

Separate yourself in your head from your WW. This is crucial to Plan A and anyone who desires to live respectfully. You are understanding all this to a degree...but that last degree is really important.

You are in the habit of supporting your self-image and betraying your self. Please stop. Increase your awareness. You say, "Yes, I am changing myself for me, to be a better person with or without WW..." and then you do this:

DJs "HOW UNATTRACTIVE!" Picture yourself love busting YOU...not others. You do this...DJ yourself...it is what gives you permission to do it to others. DJing isn't just unattractive; it is battery acid spilling over you and everyone in your life. It is living disrespectfully, denying the universal truth that we are all separate and equal...and it will eat away all your efforts to self-focus. You are eliminating LBs not for her, but for you. Had you known you were doing this, you would have stopped long ago, before the infidelity...I know you would have.

You know now.

You would have stopped because that's not who you believe nor want yourself to be. That's changing for you.

"I can only try to improve myself and show her what she is giving up. Actions...not words." Your focus remains on her instead of on you. Hey, this is a sneaky, under the radar habit bordering compulsion...DO NOT think you are alone or defective...this is TOUGH stuff..."I can only improve myself." Period. No more to that sentence so that you retain your focus.

And I removed the "try" in your sentence because to try is to lie. You are improving yourself...your awareness, beliefs, perspective...you are. Know this. It goes to the procratinator in you...trying. Leave trying in unreality.

You are owning your stuff...digging out DJ's, seeing AOs. That's you working on you. Take a picture.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Because you admit to AOs, know that stopping LBs isn't something you will be able to do...just stopping. Suppressing, ignoring, not allowing, etc., will not work. You must come up with a new belief to replace the ones in you...that humans blow up, they need to express their emotions, to DJ to protect themselves...you have some in there you can root around and find...then replace with the adult knowledge you know...

Humans do damage. They can amend that damage. There is no damage caused by you when you state your thoughts, feelings and beliefs. None. You do this instead of pushing down, holding back, feeding your image and starving your self.

This may be the most difficult of all my requests because you feel pain when your WW states her thoughts, feelings and beliefs...and as long as you continue to believe she can harm you in this way, you will not be able to replace your belief with a new. The old one will remain validated by you, and the new will cower beside it.

Her truth isn't your truth...they are separate and equal. Different. Keep to your own and listen and repeat hers to her, emphasizing choice...so that she can see her choices and you can better see your own.

Irony, you have to first choose to listen and repeat! LOL

The equal may be very difficult for you to believe...your habit of believing your opinion is superior is going to be tough to shake. There are no better or worse opinions...opinions just are. They are about the person, not you, even when they are flung at you with full strength. Inherently, opinions remain about the person who has them.

In your effort to stop DJing, notice when you compare, evaluate, measure or judge. Notice these things about you and trace them back to the emotion that doing this gives you. Then you'll trace from the emotion back to the belief...and identify something that will surprise you. Over and over again surprise.

You can do this...and be fascinated by yourself. Work on the DJ first because judgments stop our efforts to grow...no allowance, acceptance, or understanding in judgment.

I celebrate you choosing to read my posts, consider them and regain your focus. I cannot force you to do or think anything. Celebrate yourself, mired in terrible pain, for doing this really good stuff for you...know you're worth it and honor yourself. Changing for you. Time to bloom.

LA

Remember that women are not attracted to men who are weak or desperate. Plan A is a good idea. Along with HN/HN and Surviving an Affair (SAA), you might want to read Dobson's book, 'Love Must Be Tough'.

Thanks for the suggestions Cinderella.

It is too late for Plan A. Any communication is only going to be initiated by her. She doesn't want to hear from me. Some may say that I am giving in, but I know in her eyes if I were to call, I would be showing weakness. I love her, and I want to work on our marriage, but I am no longer scared of losing her. I let her know that she can call anytime she likes, but that I wasn't going to call. If she does call, I will be courteous and gracious. Otherwise, I am going to live my life for now; not for the past or for what I thought the future was going to be. Thanks to LA, I am starting to love myself again...and I haven't for a long time.

Lost, do you undertstand what Plan A IS?? You say it is "too late" for Plan A, but then proceed to tell us how you are planning on doing that very thing. Plan A does not mean initiating communication with her.

I just don't understand why you are so anxious to throw in the towel? You have so many opportunities here that have yet to be used. Why not just TRY them? What do you have to lose?

ML,

I do know what Plan A is. I guess what I mean is that I cannot fulfill the most important ENs that I have not up until now because they involve recreation, and she won't allow me to participate. Otherwise, I have continue to listen without judging and acting as loving and caring as possible. Those weren't ever my problems. She knows how much I love her. Otherwise, I don't know what else I can do. Feel free to suggest, I may be ignorant on this subject.

I am not throwing in the towel...she is. It is not as though she is hiding things about OM, so I cannot expose. She has been open and forthright about everything, and I know you don't believe her, but I do...I know her. I am willing to give her as much time as she needs to sort out her feelings. Any pushing right now is only going to push the D. She brought it up today. She said I made her feel guilty and she was ready to file. I told I would leave her alone if she wanted time. It doesn't matter (the time...not that I don't care). She is going to end it. I have to be ready to move on with my life and not hold onto something that isn't there.

If I am missing something, please tell me. I think I have exhausted everything. WW is very stubborn...anything now perceived as pushing will end it. My ONLY hope is to respect her request, and continue to show improvements in myself if communication takes place.

"Otherwise, I have continue to listen without judging and acting as loving and caring as possible."

Are you doing the listening and repeat, handing her words back and highlighting her choice?

"I hear you saying you choose to believe I can make you feel guilty and that you are choosing to file for divorce, is that correct?"

"I previously believed I could push you to do stuff...be angry at me, divorce me. I realize these are your not choices and I am not that powerful. I am having a difficult time releasing myself from that belief."

I don't believe for a moment she will go through with a divorce in reaction to anything you do. Her own conscience maybe, not you.

LA

Very good point LA. I didn't make her feel guilty...she makes herself feel guilty. I really wonder if she will file. I think she believes that I will do it. I won't. I don't believe this marriage is lost, and I won't give up on something that isn't lost. If she believes it is so gone, why is it so hard to end it?

Darn, I just lost my entire post, so I will try and recreate it.

Lost, no one told you to CHASE or PUSH her. But rather, to try and save your marriage by following MB principles. There are so many things you can be doing but seem to be just giving up for no apparent reason.

First off, you don't have to meet each and every need in order to do Plan A. You only do your best. Sometimes that means only avoiding lovebusters when she calls. It does not mean that you "chase" her or that all is ruined if you cannot meet her need for RC. But you still try.

Secondly, the affair has not been exposed. It doesn't matter if she is "open" about it, you have many opportunities to make sure the CORRECT story is out there and to ask FOR HELP IN SAVING YOUR MARRIAGE. For example, her parents, her grandmother, her siblings, the OM's family and any other key people should be contacted, informed of the AFFAIR and asked for their help in saving your marriage from a AFFAIR. I haven't seen you do this. This is an untapped opportunity that could very possibly KILL the affair.

Do you think the OM wants his parents to know that he is screwing around with a married woman? This knowledge will make the future of their affair very conflicted. And this is the kind of stuff you are going to have to do if you want to save this, Lost.

And lastly, you must let her know that you will not give her "space" [to carry on an affair] nor will you HELP HER divorce you. Let her know that you will not participate in the destruction of your marriage for a sleazy affair.

I think if you start treating her affair as what it really is - sleazy and immoral - instead of pretending this is a lifestyle "alternative" like deciding to take up karate, she might begin to see it through the eyes of others. Exposure will be very effective in opening her eyes to true nature of her affair because it forces the afffairees to see how sleazy they look to others.

So, Lost, don't throw in the towel so easily. Not until you have tried MB principles. They have saved untold marriages.

Ahh the revelations that come out from a WW!

Today I found a letter written by WW to another man that was pre-OM. It contained the following lines:

"I want to be completely honest with you…my life has been a rollercoaster in the last year or so. I’ve done things that are not part of my normal “me” and I’m not very proud of them."

I FREAKED! I asked WW if she could come by because I had something that I really needed to discuss. She agreed.

Turns out, for the past year, she has been flirting with guys, talking on the phone, and occasionally going to lunch with them. She said that she felt guilty, but nothing ever happened. They all new she was married and never tried anything. She wouldn't tell me where she met them. I told her that I appreciated her honesty, and that I still loved her.

Strangely, this makes things easier on me. Even though she told me that she has been having doubts for a while, I never realized to what extent. I thought the trouble REALLY began a month ago. Now I realize that she has been struggling for a while. I am not excusing her behavior, but I see that for her, this is nothing new. I have been beating myself up because I thought the change was so sudden.

I believe she is going to file. She is already making plans with OM for events in October. She has already made plans to meet his family in a couple of weeks.

Time to start taking care of myself. Just as LA said, concentrate on me, and loving me.

Thank you everybody for all of your suggestions and support. I know I didn't follow everything, but, at this point, I honestly don't think it would have mattered. I am going to continue to check in...because I still have to improve myself. I am happy with the person I am becoming. I feel stronger. I like myself, and I haven't felt that way in a long time. I think that means something.