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Life is strange at times. I finally decided that I've had enough and went to the lawyer and filled out the paperwork. I gave her a copy for her to review. What is so strange is the peace that has fallen over me. Maybe it will hitme later, I dont know, but for now, I actually feel whole again.
Also, her reaction was not what I expected. At all. For many, many years I have listened to her rant about marriage being outdated. Unfair to women. Domestic slavery. I have been told no to counciling. Told what a terrible person I am because I set goals and expand my dreams. I have taught my kids that the only limits to their lives are the ones that they set for themselves, that most people are unhappy because they settle for what they can have now instead of figuring out what they really want.
This morning, her mindset seems to have changed! (like I really believe that) All of a sudden, a NC letter is no longer a problem! All of a sudden, she thinks the things I've tried to instill in our kids show what a good dad I am. All of a sudden, she thinks its wonderful that I try to set goals and have dreams. All of a sudden, she produces a list of WHY she did all that crap.
#1 Fear of abandonment and not enough emotional support led to her compulsion.
#2 Feeble attempt to recapture youth
#3 empowerment
#4 felt wanted, attractive
#5 Lots of positive comments about her, her life
#6 Entertainment
Excuse me, but even though there IS SOME truth to some of this, does anyone else read into this that its STILL my fault for not meeting her needs? Or am I just being overly sensitive? Not to mention that its IMPOSSIBLE to met ANY emotional needs when your spouse is totally cut off from you and refuses to let you in.
Obviously there is sooo much more to the story, but I cant help but to be cynical anymore. I feel like i've been slapped by lemonman himself!
Can you say " MIND GAMES " ?
Anyway, just needed some place to think out loud.
Thanks for listening!
Bill
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Well, from what I've read, a lot of times when the betrayed spouse makes the step and files for the big D, the WS does suddenly look at life differently. It's her motivation for looking at differently that you have to find out. I don't know the whole story (which is why I love little bios in the sig line), but I would see what her other actions are saying. I think her reasons don't totally look like she is blaming you. Some--like #2, and 3 have nothing to do with EN's. Bottom line is she has to see that the affair was HER choice. The condition of the marriage was BOTH of your choices (to an extent--there are extremes in both directions I think). Has she taken responsibility for her actions--the A itself being her choice? Is she remorseful? This morning, her mindset seems to have changed! (like I really believe that) All of a sudden, a NC letter is no longer a problem! All of a sudden, she thinks the things I've tried to instill in our kids show what a good dad I am. All of a sudden, she thinks its wonderful that I try to set goals and have dreams. All of a sudden, she produces a list of WHY she did all that crap. Again--if NC letter is no problem--let's see her DO it. Actions--that's what you need.
BW-me, 29
XH, 29
3 sons-now 6,4,2
Divorce final--Sept. 27, 2006.
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misplacedlove,
Funny how an NC letter is sooo important..until you get it. I won't deny the psychological impact that it has in the A dynamic, just don't give it more weight than it deserves.
My definition of reconciliation is defined as a series of consistent, loving, honest ACTIONS by the WS in THEIR attempt to fix what they have broken. It can't be fixed in a day, week, month or year. It is more a sense of attitude and purpose that the WS must adopt as a visible beacon for their new lifestyle. Now this doesn't absolve the BS from working on the problems that existed in the M before the A. But like the uselessness of MC when there is an active A, you can't work on a M when the WS hasn't exhibited the sense of shame, the position of asking forgiveness and the attitude of "whatever it takes for as long as it takes"
Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle
You believe easily what you hope for ernestly
Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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But like the uselessness of MC when there is an active A, you can't work on a M when the WS hasn't exhibited the sense of shame, the position of asking forgiveness and the attitude of "whatever it takes for as long as it takes" Just wanted to highlight this because this is WHAT you need to look for. Very well, put Cymanca.
BW-me, 29
XH, 29
3 sons-now 6,4,2
Divorce final--Sept. 27, 2006.
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Cymanca said ; you cant work on a M when the WS hasnt exhibited the sense of shame, the position of asking forgiveness and the attitude of " whatever it takes "
How True
Well,tonight...this morning actually, my future XW came in from her first "date" . She woke me up and came and lay down by me crying uncontrollably, saying that she didnt deserve me.
She cryed for almost an hour, saying how sorry she was, how she didnt deserve me, that if I would let her then she will take better care of me.
I just held her close and let her cry.
Then she thanked me for letting her go. She said how wonderful I am ? Next she said that she was blind and that now she sees how good she really had it.
I told her that I didnt "let" her go...that she was her own person and that it had been her decision. Then she revealed some of what happened at this so called party. She asked me why these people lived that way...I just said,"well, theyre YOUR friends" and that the grass is always greener over the septic tank...just that some people have to smell the s*#t for themselves before they realize it.
Sad that its taken this long...cause i'm out of gas.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that after miles of crap,hundreds of lies and zero remorse, I finally got a real apology.
Hope you guys have a great weekend...i'm heading to work!
Bill
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Good to hear she gave you an 'apology' but don't jump the gun and give her back her W status. Works gotta follow and not little works..... BIG WORKS!
take care,
L.
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Orchid , or anyone else...
Do you think that I should even let myself hope that its for real this time?
How many times do I let myself be hurt?
Bill
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No. That would too high of a fall to take. Many do though. They survive but the scars tend to remain.
Since you are intuitive enough to ask before you go down that path (very tempting to hope you know)..... I will tell you that while hope is really never gone..... it is better to focus and concentrate on strengthening yourself. Move forward with your life and provide a path for her to follow.
Don't keep looking back too much, periodic checks are ok but let her choose to follow your course instead of that of a WS script.
Your movement forward will show her a better life. Just don't expect her to choose it. Instead, expect withdrawals some of which you may be subject to and this is where you need t/b prepared. Tools like reverse babble, plan B, etc. can really help.
Have you read Surviving an Affair, His Needs/Her Needs and Love must be Tough? 1st 2 books are by Dr Harley and th3rd is by Dr. Dobson. Check 'em out. Go to the top of this page and select the concepts section. Read it and take the emotional needs questionnaire (see if she will take it also - if not you take it for her and see the results). Then call Jennifer C @ MB for some personal, then when she is ready couple phone counseling. Jennifer is good. She will help you get a plan then both of you (if your W is willing).
Basically you need a plan. The plan will help you whern the hope is hurt or starts to fade. Best to start right now.
Hope this helps.
L.
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Orchid,
Thank you so much. You helped me take the emotional aspect out. Moving forward and provideing a path was perfect for me right now. Also, not expecting her to follow...this will give me the protection that my heart needs right now, while maintaining a feeling of action.
I have read his needs, her needs. Also a book called man of velvet and steel. Also I have taken the en questions...she has also, but as of yet, no discussion.
After all the time i've spent on MB's, it never occoured to me to get personal counciling. Sometimes I seem to miss the obvious!
On a side note...I hope that you, and so many others, know what a tremendous blessing to me and to so many others that you are. Thank You.
Bill
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Bill, Glad to be able to lend a hand. In time I know you will be doing the same. I made posting @ MB part of my personal therapy. When the then WS would grumble about my posting to a bunch of 'strangers' (MB), I was prepared with my RB reply. It went something like: xWS: U R always posting and neglecting the family. BS: Hm.... I do post quite a bit. It is therapeutic for me actually but you are right about too much. I will certainly cut down to non-family times (late at night, giving up a few hours sleep to post, between chores, etc.). xWS: Why r u letting everyone know our business? I am not that bad. U exaggarate. BS: Well my imagination isn't as wild as the ride you have taken me on. 2nd, it is our business but you have taken what belongs to our family outside to another woman's house and bedroom. Do you really want to go there about where our business has been going? xWS: Uhmmm... BS: Besides, you have chosen NOT to meet me needs. Until you do, I have to have support and assistance to learn how to cope. R U ready to meet my needs? xWS: Well, I'm trying. BS: Me too....till then can I continue to get the help I need? xWS: I guess. BS: Ok, thank you. Now I even had his approval. Silly Xws'. They babble and then they get caught. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> L.
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Hi Orchid, I really like this post. Very similar to the stich that happened to me on Fri night. I was just wondering. Was your WS still IN the affair when all this was happening? Im reading alot here about how people are recovering now, or that now the A is out in theopen it's open. Well ours isn't <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> He still goes back THERE to sleep at night. Although he has just texted me to tell me he's going for a walk - Hmmm - all over HEr perhaps.
Me 34,WH 37, Children 7,4,21mths
D'Day 30/3 but awareness of 'depression' 19/3
Moved in with ROOT on 26/3
Plan B 9th May 06
WH nervous breakdown & suicide attempt 14th May 06
Chocolate Root Melted 26th May
Recovering now with baby steps.....
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Thinking Again...
After this past series of events, it seems that somehow I'm spiraling back into the abyss again. I have run the gamut emotionally...again. Whats wrong with me? For almost 3 yrs now I longed to hear what shes now saying. So why do I feel so hopeless? Is there such a thing as getting addicted to the drama? No, that cant be it, I felt to much peace with my decision to call it over. I dont know.
last night, way into a lengthy discussion, she asked me not to bring up the past again, that it was emotional abuse.Yea, you can imagine my reaction.She said that it wasnt fair because it made her hurt. AWWWW. probably shouldnt have, but I told her that it was about time that she felt the pain that she caused. That I had carried this, alone, for way to long. That it was time for her to carry this pain and that it was her place to take it from me and help me to heal. then she asked me if I would recommit, couldnt we just put this behind us and move on.
My response was that, No, I wasnt willing. Yet. That we had made a covenent about many things in our life, home,money,realestate,franchises,businesses,etc. and that she has broken it. I told her that she has done a p!ss poor job of protecting me. Protecting our family. I told her that trust has to be earned, by actions, not words, and that without trust, love cannot replace the resentment that fills my heart.
She said that it hurts her that I have so much resentment. My response was that I thought that was the right thing to feel, as she caused it to be there.
Anyway, I really just needed to vent a little. I just cant figure out what to do. Why cant I just leave. How can she keep me holding on for so long. What is wrong w/me?
Anyway, thanks for letting me whine today. Hopefully I'll start feeling better in a bit.
Bill
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Z, to let you know, my incident happened during one of the 'false recoveries'. I called him Xws because at the time, that is what I 'thought' he was. Arrrgh..... So still A time.
I tried to minimize my time with him even if he said he wanted recovery. I gave him his 'space' which he didn't want anymore..... go figure.... I realized he wanted to play tug a' war and I did not but it was important I learn how to make my moves count so when I replied as such, he ended up giving his 'blessing for me to post on MB' w/o even realizing it. LOL!!! Awwh..... the good effects of reverse babble.
MPL as for that line about 'not bringing up the past', I will let you know that even to this day..... I periodically mention the A to ask some questions I still have. He has admitted to being stupid in his choices and I have the basic answers but every so often, I get a hankering for some details because for me the puzzle is not complete. He answers them but says he wants to forget that stupid part of his life. Me too.....but I can't, not yet and tell him so. Then I put the onis on him for him to help me get over this mess and he bites his tongue and does what he can. So we do talk and he does realize it is his responsibility to help me not just forget about it.
Sorry for the ramble, just wanted to share. Don't let the WS or Xws bully you. That's why it is important to know your boundaries an stick to them. Using tools like reverse babble kicks their guilt back in their court and brings some relief to you as the BS.
JMHO,
L.
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Hi Bill! I just read your thread. I need details now. When was d-day? How long were you Med when it hit? How many kids do you have? Did she keep her A going for the past 3 yrs after d-day, or just no effort in recovery? How old are you and how old is she? What's this about a date she was just on? I think I will be able to respond better with some of the gaps filled in. I will say this. I think one of the biggest mistakes I have seen here on MB IMHO is when the BS won't draw their line in the sand. An addicted, cake-eating WS will just keep doing what they're doing if the BS allows it.
I also 100% agree with what Orchid wrote about talking about the A:
"Then I put the onis on him for him to help me get over this mess and he bites his tongue and does what he can. So we do talk and he does realize it is his responsibility to help me not just forget about it."
It's not your W's choice when to put the A behind you. Sorry! I'm sure every FWS would just LOVE to do that. Unfortunately one of the consequences of an A is the deep pain the BS goes through. Someone wrote this to me probably within a month of d-day. He said "An A is like your H put a bullet in your head. Unfortunately in order to heal he will have to extract that bullet." It has been the effort of my H, not always perfect, that has kept me going with this recovery. It's part of the deal. There ain't no free rides after an A. CV
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Back again. Its been a hard few days.
CV55, we've been married for 24yrs. Two kids...D, 21 and 14 y/o son. I'm 42, shes 43. Sunday I offered her a clean slate if she would be honest w/me. wasnt ready for what I found out. Ya'll, I swear that I've never seen pure evil in my life before...now I have. I thought it was rough before.SHEE. Unfourtunatley I couldnt handle it...and broke down like i've never done before. I cried harder than I even knew was possible. My son saw his daddy not be able to handle something for the first time. It broke his heart.
She said that I was acting like an idiot, that i got what i asked for. But she did say that if I treat her like she wants (which is to act single) that it wont happen again. Trust her, she said.
Today, I asked her would she leave her phone on while we were driving back home today. I told her that (she ased why) she always gaurded that thing and never once turned it on while I was w/her, and that this simple thing would go a long way in helping me to trust. Then she got huffy, but did it. Then gave excuses why it was never on. Then made a few smart @ss comments,said there,you happy now and looked out the window for 20 minutes.
continued...
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About 20 miles from home she informed me that she was no longer going to cook, as we didnt appreciate her. WTF?
Then she said that when finals were over that she was going out to get drunk and do some other things and that I wouldnt like. ??????
I just looked over at her and said no. She said what do you mean no? I said that I wasnt intrested in being married to someone that is only renting, that if she wasnt willing to buy back into this marriage then she needed to move out. No, she didnt like that. At all.
Anyway, we get home and change clothes. She starts studying, I cut grass. Then I tell her that i'm going to run to town for somethings. I went and got her a manicure/pedicure gift certificate as this morning she was talking about wanting one. Then i went and bought groceries. Came home, cleaned out a garbage bag full of trash from the fridge, then put up the food. Sorted a load of clothes and then finished mowing grass.
While I was in the shower she told our son that I irritate the h$ll out of her, then went to sit by the pool and study.
After I got out of the shower, she came in and asked did I want to go to her moms and eat. I said yes. I met her in the kitchen, she was putting up glasses. i said dont worry bout that, I'm going to rearrange the kitchen to where it works better for me, you ready to go? Shes being very hateful acting, so i hand her the envelope w/ the gift certificate and said heres a little something for you. What is it? she asked. I said just a little something for you for you to do after your final test tommorrow. She just laid it down and looked disgusted.
I then asked her if I have done anything to upset her, then here we go. I pull in her moms yard and she said that if i was going to act like that, she would have just walked over ( its just thru the woods) so I said then you dont really want me here? Not if your going to act like that. (I swear, all I did was ask if i did any to upset her) So I told her to walk her a$$ back home then and left.
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A few minutes later, my son and i are sitting at the computer when she comes up from behind me and reaches around my neck. I immediatly jumped backwards. You see, she has hit me in the face a couple of times and slapped me a few times. The last time,probably a yr or so ago, she slapped the taste out my mouth and was going to do it again when I caught her arm, turned her around, picked her up and carried her across the kitchen and stood her by the stove and set her down. Then I backed up to the sink and leaned back. As she was coming back I stood up and drew back...I told her that I have never hit her, but that if she ever hit me again that I would mop the floor w/ her a$$ as I slid her across it. She believed me.
Anyway, now her thing is to try to rip my throat out. The last time I think she did damage as my throat and ear still hurt, and thats been probably 3-4 mos ago. So when she came around my neck I didnt know what she was doing.
She said I just wanted to hug you...I want to talk. Finally, we can work this out, right?
Wrong.
First, she threw my lighter in the pond. Then lit into me for leaving her. And the road goes on forever, and the party never ends.
My son, meanwhile, gets in her car (hes 14) and says bye, i'm going to grandmas. then she lets me know how badly i've treated her, and always have by the way, and that she was under a lot of stress, that I should be nice to her.
Hey, I'm getting better...it took her 12 hrs today to get the reaction from me that she was after. yea, I know.
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Again, for several minutes she explains how badly I treat her, that i should just let her live her life and be happy. That I treat her like a child (???) because i want to know whats going on in her life. Blah blah blah. Finally, she said something to the extent of that "HE" would never treat her like this, that its my fault that she did what she did and that i'm ??????? for upsetting our son.
Well, that did it...Though I did have the right to remain silent, The ability was nowhere to be found.
I told her that she needed to go find her an apt. and move out. That I could no longer tolerate her unstableness and that she needed some help. In a major way.
Thats not all,but its close. i'm tired. i'm taking 3 xanex a day, havent slept 12 hrs since last wed, or eaten much at all. I know everbody will say to keep going, and God i love ya for it, but...it aint gonna change. I need some peace. i prayed and prayed for sleep last night...
My son asked me while ago why did he and i have to back home...
This is what happened to my mom when I was six, only she would leave me alone at home for days. and her future husband beat me w/ a clothes hanger. My dad was (is a recorving, glory to god,i'm so proud of him) alcoholic, i got taken away to the childrens home in the town where I now live ,but my grandma, God what an awesome lady, took me and raised me. Anyway, this is breaking my heart. I never wanted my kids to know this side of life. Now my son wants me and him to just leave.
He didnt deserve this. Maybe I do, but not him.
Please pray for my boy,ok?
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Well, i'm tired...so I think i'll just read some of your awesome post and dream a little dream of real love.
Thanks for being here for me. I'll write more later on.
Bill
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Misplacedlove, How are you doing? Just checking on you. I found this awesome thread by Star*Fish and thought you might want to read it. Check it out It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.
Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear
Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".
There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.
MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.
You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.
Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.
If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.
Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.
Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.
Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.
Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.
And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.
"I hurt myself today, to see If I still feel...I focus on the pain, the thing only thing that's real"... Johnny Cash.."Hurt"
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