SC-You are correct in you assessment of my questions. I was very interested in reading some of your other posts as well. My childhood was not bad at all. However, I had a workaholic father and a mother that did her best to raise 3 children that were stepped a year apart. She did her best to keep the family with the essentials and a few "extras" many times by sacrificing for herself. Eventually, I (as the oldest child) assumed the role of peacemaker of the family. I was the one that always assured my siblings that everything would work out when my parents would fight. I was the one that would be the diplomat with parent to parent issues as well as parent to child issues. That is my role - to make things work out and make people have a sense of comfort. I still have that problem today.

It is a big reason why when I was so unhappy with my marriage that I did not go to my H and say "you need to change ______" or "you are'nt doing _____". I did say I was not happy, but then I would put some spin on it so he wouldn't feel bad.

I went through many years-most of my married years just trying to do whatever it took to keep a level of peace and happiness in our home.

Then...I kinda snapped. I was looking for anything that was all about me. I felt like I deserved it and I felt like I had earned it. I couldn't bring myself (given my obvious personality flaw) to tell my H that I wanted a divorce, so I made the choice to have an A.

For the first time that I could remember, my life was about me. Not about him, our future, our "to do" list, my job, my family... It was quite a relief! I know it was a choice and I know it was wrong.

Back to the original topic-I am not an emotional person. I don't get much satisfaction by someone telling me he loves me. I do get satisfaction by "job well done". (I'm a workaholic, in case that needed to be defined) I don't feel intimate really with anyone. Even with the OM it was the conversation, the fun, the lack of resonsibility, the lack of the diplomat role that was so appealing. That is why I have my questions about the MB program. I don't doubt that if most people go through the motions and follow a prescribed plan that eventually the feelings will come. My big problem is that I have a proven track record that I can go through the motions of just about anything without feeling. (I'm really not a psycho!)

well, more than you probably asked SC, but I at least hope this answers your question. Thank you for your posts and answers.

MT,

I think that you should tell Dr. Harley the above and see what he says...

I know that you understand that your assuming the role of the diplomat is your choice, right? No one forced this role upon you, right? What would happen if you decided not to be the diplomat/peacemaker? What would happen if you were just you? Why not try acting like you did with OM with rprynne? What would happen? What did you do with OM for fun? What would happen if you did those things with rprynne? Same goes for conversation...The time issue is really important...rprynne has said that you guys are working on that...How? When exactly are you guys going to be able to spend more time together?

The responsiblity thing...well, obviously as adults we cannot escape that...but why not ease up on yourself with the workaholic thing...Are you putting undue pressure and responsibility on yourself? If so, why? What would happen if you cut back? Would you lack food, shelter and clothing? My guess is no...so what's the worst thing that would happen if you cut back?


I wanted to address this specifically...how would YOU be any different with someone other than rprynne? You had to feel something for the OM, if there was no "payoff" then you wouldn't have been in the affair...Can you see that eventually you would have ended up in the same place that you are in now with rprynne with the OM? You are the same no matter where you are or who you are with...YOU cannot escape YOU...

Here's how I look upon issues from childhood...Great, you've identified them, you can't change the past, what are you going to do TODAY to change YOU? Why dwell on issues long gone? I am often reminded of a sales manager that I once worked for...it didn't matter what you had sold even the minute before...the question was always, "What are you doing now?" Happiness is a choice MT...it comes from inside you...


Mrs. Wondering

Mrs. W-thank you for your response. I do acknowlege that my role as a diplomat is my choice. It was a choice I made almost 30 yrs ago and has become a habit - almost instinctive.

I do realize that I need more time with my H. We are working on that and have an plan in place.

As for being a workaholic-that too is instinctive. I am a person that to some extent derives their self worth from my career. It is who I am (at least in my mind). It is not easy to just cut back. It's like withdrawal. I know that is not healthy, but that doesn't make it any easier.

Sometimes it is hard to think of the future and happiness together because we have this enormous "moose on the table" that just won't go away. Even if it did, we still have many years of unhappiness or unhealty marriage in the past. Many days, I'm just not sure what to say or what to do. Its just as hard (if not harder) to break a behavior pattern with someone as it is to accept a new one from them or implement one yourself.

MT...

A very wise person pointed something out to me earlier tonight...Many times people become workaholics to avoid intimacy...something to think about perhaps...

Mrs. W

Bump

MT,
I'm glad to see you're still posting. I sure can relate to a lot of what you say. Especially this:



But I wonder.... Without feelilng? Or by supressing your feelings? An important distinction to consider.

I do know what you mean, though. I felt for a long time that my marriage was a charade. That for many years leading up to my affair, I was just going through the motions -- putting up a good front -- with little or no real feeling. And I worry sometimes that the MB approach --since it's all about behaving a certain way -- could reinforce rather than help me to break that pattern. That's why I suggested IMAGO -- which seems to address both the behaviors needed to build intimacy AS WELL AS the emotional/psychological issues at play. Are you seeing a counselor?

And it's not about dwelling on the past. It's about recognizing and learning how to change long-standing habits and patterns. I know for me, that's proving difficult to do.

About the workaholic thing... I get that too. One of the reasons I thought my marriage would work out is that my husband understood how important my career was to me and wouldn't stand in my way. A couple of years after we were married, we even lived in different cities, 200 miles apart, for about 1 1/2 years so I could advance my career. And even after I moved back home, I put my career first. I would routinely work 15 hour days... literally, right up until the day our first child was born. (After that, the children became my priority, but I never put my H first).

My point is -- you say that you get more satisfaction from doing a job than from relationships (paraphrasing). But doesn't the fact that you had an affair seem to contradict that? I mean, if it was simply an escape you were looking for, you could have chosen any one of a thousand differnt things -- drugs, alcohol, drag racing, posing nude for college art classes, you name it. I think if you look at it honestly, you'll see that you really do crave a special connection with someone. Why not start with the relationship you've already got... give it your all... I mean really, really try for one year... and if you don't feel any closer to (any more of a spark for) rprynne by then... then the two of you can reassess.

Anyway, thanks for listening, and I hope something I've said helps.

Take care,
--SC

Mrs. W
I don't disagree with that statement. I have thought that I became a workaholic for that reason. I am just not sure how to turn it off. I've been this way for as long as I can remember.

I have debated which came first...Just haven't really decided the answer. I need to give it more thought. Thanks again for your insight.

MT, women in my family tend to be overachieving workaholics and my mother said something very interesting to me a few years ago when she was summarily fired from a top position in an oil company. First off, you should know that she addressed her workaholic issues years before.

As with most workaholics, her IDENTITY had been very contingent upon her OCCUPATION until she changed her life.

When she lost her job, she told me that if it had happened a few years earlier, she probably would have killed herself. And as a former workaholic, I can very much relate to her feelings.

Just something to think about.

cookie Pep-owner~~~

you said:



did you read the thread

Willard F Harley Is A Smart Man????

Read about renter/buyer/freeloader

and giver/taker

it is immediately applicable and does not require years of therapy to put into place <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

PS Cookie

I totally agree with how hard it is to change habitual behaviors ... and this is discussed on the thread ... the thread is a book study I did ... I wrote the thread as I was reading Harley's book ...

Pep

MT and I also lived apart for about a year. It was a move that was for my career, but where I moved their were no good jobs for MT, so she stayed behind. It allowed MT and I to both focus on our careers.

I have also felt (and to some extent behaved) like if I did not stand in the way of MT's career, that everything would work out. I realize MT made some sacrifices for my career as well.

Anyway, how do you, or anyone, think a H should "behave" in supporting a W's career. Now, I sometimes feel like, if I had not been accomadating or flexible, I may not be where I am. I don't really know how to verbalize this, its not like I'm saying I could or would want to stop my W from having a career. Its just, since D-Day, at times MT would say to me, I thought you didn't care about me, as long as I brought home money and did good at my career. Which, I could have cared less about the money. What I really wanted to do was spend time with MT, but did not want her to think I was a bad H because I was not flexible about her work.

How do you support someone you love in doing something that causes them to be away from you, without them thinking your okay with being away from them?

Well I can`t really say, showed WH this site bought the book HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS. WH can`t read that well so I would read the book to him.He started to fill my EN and vice versa, but then I guess it all was too much of an effort for him, because it involved him talking about issues and such and WH is a denial kinda guy.So he is back in his room and I am here reading and venting and working on myself.

It is not a good idea to support anything that is damaging to your marriage. Living apart is very damaging to even the best of marriages. As you have learned the hard way.

Mel - no fair, you didn't answer my question.

Hi Rprynne,

Just wanted to add that while the 15 Hours IS critical, try to mix in some fun Recreational Companionship into the mix (I just said this on another thread).

In order for her to develop New good feelings about you, you two need to MAKE some NEW fun memories together. Do things that make her happy, that make her laugh. People want to be with people who make them laugh. Take the RC questionaire and try some new stuff together.

Seriously, I see this principle overlooked too often, but it was so important in my recovery. Please take care - Dru

Drucilla

Rprynne and I do mix in some fund RC when we are together. We have fun together, in fact when we have done things together (always) we have had fun. While we don't see each other every day, we do spend most all of our time when I'm at home together. We are working on a plan to address the distance problem.

For me the RC is the most important. That is a big reason for my A. I enjoy socializing, being out, experiencing new things and meeting new people. We are doing that more now. Thanks for your post.

Yes, I did, ryprynne. That was my answer. It is not "support" to help someone in an endeavor that is destructive to your marriage.


YOU DON'T.

ML
While you weren't addressing me with your post, I'm going to jump in.

When you love someone are you ever happy about them being away? I don't think so. But I think you do support them and make decisions that are not only in the best interest of the person, but also in the best interest of the family/household. Especially, if there are plans in place to spend time together and work through the distance. Also, when it is temporary.

I know when my H moved for his career and I did not move, it was a good situation for his career and our family. I know that support from my H was extremely important to me. I have been told by my H that one of the things he loved about me was my independence and my career focus. How can you not be supportive?

I know that it sounds like my workaholic speaking, but I don't think you can say without a doubt that you don't support someone.

Margie, when you love someone you act in the best interest of the MARRIAGE, not to the DETRIMENT of the marriage. What destroys marriages are selfish, independent choices, such as seperations, whether it be for a "career" or whatever. Seperations are NEVER a good choice for a marriage, as you have seen for yourself.

"Support" for one's spouse should not be done at the expense of the marriage; that is NOT support. And the truth is that career seperations are DEVASTATING to marriages. You have found this out yourself.

Dag gum it, people from Texas really really worry me.

Let me rephrase, and I'm asking you, becuase you said you were a recovering workaholic.

I agree, and get the point, that you can't support something that is destructive to your marriage. I also understand that my current situation is extreme, and I'm not asking how do I support my wife working 1,000 miles away from me.

So, if you are a recovering workaholic, how did someone say to you, while I admire and support you in your chosen profession, you need to work less?

So let me give some history. When my wife first started working, she had "normal" hours. Then work got more challenging, more hours, etc. Now, I thought I was doing the right thing, saying "honey, I know work is important to you, so if you need to work a little more, I'll just find something else to do" That seems like a reasonable position, and at first I didn't mind at all. Well, the hours got to be more and more, and finally, I did start to complain some, and then some more.

MT has said to me, "I thought you didn't mind me being away". So, clearly, she intrepreted my support, as I'm okay being away from her.

Well, the fact is, I am supportive of her career. I also don't like having her work make us spend so much time apart.

So, I don't think your advice is to tell my wife she can't have a career. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I also don't think you are saying my wife should choose to not work. (Again, correct if I'm wrong) And thus, I'm left with having to be (in some fashion) supportive of her career. If her job involves travel, then again, I'm left with being supportive of time apart.