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i'm trying to understand something....i'd appreciate some help
can someone explain how any kind of contact prolongs the affair? (as it applies to my situation and past contacs is you know the details or just in general for any situation)
and if/how my H's contacts to me....even though they were so mean and hateful help to prolong the affair IF that is the case. (or accepting contacts in general if you don't know my situation)
i'm NOT planning to make contact....(please don't think that's why I'm asking this! I'm glad to have peace instead of being yelled at, manipulated and lied to!)i don't have anything to say to the monster man....and i don't want to hear from him until he's the man i love again....if ever
i get that it hurts ME......i don't get how it helps to prolong the affair
i just have a hard time understanding this and i recently read a post on another thread that said "every time there is a contact it prolongs the affair" and it made me wonder about this again since i've never really understood it completely
thanks for helping me to understand!
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nothing kills a fantasy like real life. when the Ws moves in or continues unabated in an affair, you gotta hand it to them on a silver platter. Nothing like bills, custody, lawyers (maybe if you're at that stage), shelling out custody payments or cs, managing two households, etc to break a fantasy. Plus, if the BS whom is the BUTT of the abuse from both the OP and the WS is unavailable to push around, the star crossed wackaloons get to DO NOTHING BUT FOCUS ON EACH OTHER...and when the stresses occur like what I said above (bills, real life, supporting two households) happens, THEY LOVE BUST ALL OVER THE PLACE.
My xh and his affair wife are just like that. They are damn miserable. He has not been faithful one minute since being with her. He is horribly miserable.
But it's the dunderheads' choice.
and I don't want a WS under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.
When things get bad b/w them, when reality is too much, they fight. And they do it alot.
That is why you give em to each other! It really does work.
Plus if the WS and OP are NOT UNIFIED AGAINST YOU AS THEIR COMMON FOE anymore...then they have NOTHING TO UNIFY FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. ENDS THE HYSTERICAL BONDING THEY DO. surely does. If they can't be in unison being AGAINST THE BS and undermining it, then they will find ways to vent the real nature of their unhappiness which is something deep seated inside themselves...not the marriage usually.
me:37 BS; s:7;
xh:38; OW:26;eloped w/OW 1 wk after D: 12/29/03. OC born 3/17/04. Happy! Blessed to be the mother of a wonderful son..great profession..Life's good!
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((( eav )))
I also think that every time your WH has some contact with you
he gets his *fix* of you.
Sincerely, carnation
Me - BS 55
WH/FWH 50
OW 30
Much evidence says that my H was/is
deeply involved in a very long term PA
Prolly will never know much more than that
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Maybe you can look at it this way. I am an alcoholic. I needed to bottom out before I would see that. I was a very high functioning drunk. I would think, "Maybe I have a problem", but then I would get a promotion. So I would think, "I must not have that bad of a problem, my life is good". Some people need to be lying in a gutter before they will admit they have a problem. Every time I approached the figurative gutter, something positive happened which prolonged my addiction.
Pain is sometimes (I think usually) the only reason people will make a change.
As a FWW, I believe that my BH's accomodation of my affair prolonged it. First, I never had to give up my BH, except sexually. We had a great coparenting, chummy relationship and we talked almost every day. Second, OM never had to meet all my needs. If OM was being an a$$, I would call BH, make small talk and feel a little warm fuzzy. We weren't ever talking about reconciliation, he was just meeting my need for companionship.
Again, I want to stress, BH and I never talked about reconciliation until we actually did. The chumminess never led me to believe that he was still available to me. But, he was in my life and that prevented me from facing the full reality of my actions.
I think we think that because we are not having cordial conversations with our WH, that we are not meeting a need. But, when I was a WW, even fighting with BH gave me a fix.
It is like cheating on a diet, or sneaking an occasional smoke and saying that you quit smoking. If you are going to be a wayward, then be 100% wayward. No cheating, no slipping up and acting like a human every now and then. Everytime a BS allows the WS to "play human" for a minute, it prolongs the moment where the WS looks in the mirror and can't stand who they have become.
Me-41 BS (FWS) DH-41 WS (FBS) 2DD's- 10 and 12 Married 15 years Separated for 2 years after my A Reconciled for 1 year before his A D-day for his A 8/23/05 WH moved out 9/16/05 Divorce final 1/23/07 Affair ended or month or so later My Story
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I have another angle to look at. Every time the WS is allowed to meet a need of the BS, the WS gets to think "I am trying to make this easy on BS, I don't have to feel that guilty".
When I was the WW, I relieved alot of guilt by performing as BH's nanny/housekeeper. So I could tell myself that I was meeting all his needs except the romantic ones. He was free to date and he always knew I would watch the kids.
I believe that my WH, since he is still supporting me finacially, relieves alot of his guilt that way. If I call him about some car thing, or home repair and let him meet MY need, then he gets to say to himself "See, BS has not really lost much, I don't have to feel bad".
Maybe if we were not doing so well without him, maybe WH would feel a little more guilt. And if I was in plan B, he would not know how we were doing.
Letting a wayward meet a betrayed's need, gives the WS their fix of feeling human and relieves them of the guilt bug for awhile.
Me-41 BS (FWS) DH-41 WS (FBS) 2DD's- 10 and 12 Married 15 years Separated for 2 years after my A Reconciled for 1 year before his A D-day for his A 8/23/05 WH moved out 9/16/05 Divorce final 1/23/07 Affair ended or month or so later My Story
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I take it you mean Contact between the WS and the BS helps to prolong the A?
Well, as long as the WS is seeing both the BS and the OP, he/she can sit on the fence and enjoy the best of both worlds. And that's exactly what most of them REALLY want to do.
You must understand that most infidels, IMHO, are not trying to "choose" between the BS and the OP. What they really want is to have both and they are looking for some way to do that.
If you take away your support on your side of the fence, they are suddenly forced to fall one way or the other and can't have both anymore. And the OP usually fails pretty miserably at being forced to meet *all* of the WS's emotional needs.
This is why Plan B is very effective.
Mulan
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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very great explainations and examples!
so contact lets them vent their feelings to BS instead of OW, allows them to feel a little less guilty, and lets them get a "fix" of the BS
makes sense!
mulan
your explaination makes perfect sense also and helps me to understand. althought it's probably the case for many BS spouses here.....sadly, not in my situation
my H isn't "cake eating" at all......he has choosen OW and would already have his divorce if he had the $
the only things that he seems very clearly to miss about our marriage are my income and the lifestyle we had because of it(nice home, cars, pool)and he misses our two dogs (he gave them up)
he's living in a HUD home, doesn't have the $ to fix it up and can't pay his bills, OW works only part time for hourly wage......
my H said that "he had everything every man could want and he still wasn't happy" so he gave up everything he had to find happiness with OW...if he's happy, he sure complains alot about what he can't afford now!
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***my H said that "he had everything every man could want and he still wasn't happy" so he gave up everything he had to find happiness with OW...if he's happy, he sure complains alot about what he can't afford now!***
. . . and so . . . remember what I said about an OP being forced to meet all of the WS's emotional needs.
I have not been following your thread, but I hope you are in Plan B - if he's left you for the OP, you should be - and stay very dark. Let him have a full dose of what he thinks he wants. It's the very best thing you could possibly do for him - not to mention for yourself.
Mulan
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Plus if the WS and OP are NOT UNIFIED AGAINST YOU AS THEIR COMMON FOE anymore...then they have NOTHING TO UNIFY FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. ENDS THE HYSTERICAL BONDING THEY DO. surely does. If they can't be in unison being AGAINST THE BS and undermining it, then they will find ways to vent the real nature of their unhappiness which is something deep seated inside themselves...not the marriage usually. Boy, I hope so, Peachy. You put it very well.
(Formerly SadMommy05)
BS, 29 (me)
XH, 27
DD, 1
M, 2001 high school sweethearts
OW, 36, divorcee, "we have a friendship people can't understand"
WH left out of the blue 9/5/2005
I filed 11/1/2005 D finalized 6/20/06 
XH and OW married 1/6/07. Ugh!
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For a couple of reasons.
For years you were depositing LU's in WS's LB. You were supplying some of his EN's. For whatever reason, either they sought it out or someone sought them out, but they began getting LU deposits from the OP WHILE they were getting deposits from you.
While they are carrying on with two people, the WS is pretty happy...guilty...but happy, their LB is really filling up!
Then the BS stops fulfilling their WS's EN's...boom, half their LU supply is gone...now it is entirely up to the OP to fill their LB...and let me tell you, they are a poor substitute...why? because the WS found them at a time they only needed to fill in the gaps of missing EN's. They were not responsible for fulfilling ALL their most important EN's...
So there is pressure on the OP...they've got to step up the EN fulfillment if they want to keep that *catch* they have. And this is no small feat, but near impossible for the selfish likes of OP...
So the Taker comes out, and the A begins it's demise...
What's wrong in A land...it used to be so easy? WS's LoveBank is dimishing. WS is expecting more, and the OP is resenting it...well then...go back to your BS if you are so unhappy...
And there is goes.
Should you call or contact him...boom, a deposit of Love Units...a little longer time until tthe A feels the effects of the depleted Love Bank...
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
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Eav: I think that Still's answer is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT!! I enabled my FWH's affair more than once. He would get his fill of me and then go back to her. It seems like at one point... during his cake-eating...he fell more deeply "in love" with her. Not until Plan B, when he learned that she was "just a normal person", that a lot of what she was saying and doing was "BS"..the quotes are his words...that's when he became miserable and began the process of ending the A... Not saying that this will happen in your case but this is how the process worked in my situation..exactly as Still explained it.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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mulan
i am in plan B! i have to be "very dark" because my H has been using me to vent his frustrations....now i'm not even listening to his messages and i am getting my numbers changed!
still here
great explaination!! OW can't meet my H needs financially and with her 4 children, she can't meet his needs for a quiet and very neat home...........
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This should be a sticky topic. It's the best description of Plan B ever.
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I also got some great responses to this question on my other thread. I'm going to copy them here to help anyone else in need. Hi EAV,
I am going to give a shot at an answer to your question....
For me, to not be in direct contact with WS while in PLAN B (or, in my case it's phone messages re kids and finances only) is just a way of being 'consistent' with what I have stated to him to be the most basic 'boundary' to be respect should he want to maintain a relationship with me - more or less, the PLAN B letter - (which on occasion, if ASKED to restate it when WS 'forgets' why I refuse to see or speak to him, I am more than happy to oblige) and that is: A relationship with me will only be possible once his A has ended, or a variation of that, when HIS family is again a priority in HIS life....either way he knows where to find me.... and PLAN B is as much for WS as it is for me.... to force ME not to LOWER my standards!
By staying dark in PLAN B, BS is saying 'I am serious about this'.... by being in contact.... BS may be sending the message that the 'boundary' can be 'moved'.....BS may be open to lower 'standards'.... and that WS may eventually be able to 'cakeeat' and have both BS and OW in their lives....which is really what they want....not to have to choose but somehow have both! BS by being in contact helps to 'maintain' the possibility of this 'fantasy' longer......by staying dark in PLAN B..... BS forces some 'reality' into WS's life..... BUT THE MESSAGE MUST STAY CONSISTENT...it's like with kids, really!
When my boys ask me for something.....and depending on how 'firm' I am with my answer... they will either stop asking me....or if there is any 'doubt' in my answer, they will continue to ask me until.......
....the hard part about PLAN B.....is that BS will have to accept WS's choice to respect N/C with BS and stay with OW.....convincing themselves it's what they really want and need...
It's not what BS wants.... but life is what it is!
...but as we keep saying here, EAV, you wouldn't want to be in a relationship with WS (self-centered, insensitive to your needs, etc.etc.).....what you want, if possible, is your S back.....or NOTHING!
When WS chooses OW over respecting BS boundary and end A to be in relationship with BS.... the 'healthier' thing to do for a BS is to stop 'investing' energy (mostly mentally I find) into WS, and focus it on own recovery, personal grown, dreams, healing,etc. because we will always be in a relationship with OURSELVES...until our deaths!
Although I am very sad that WS is choosing not to continue to be a part of my life.....I am trying really hard not to get 'stuck' on this....but to continue to grow INSPITE of WS's choice....
I am not saying it's easy, EAV, but it can be done....because so many of us ARE doing it!
TAKE CARE.
Lunamare I would like to hear Harley say how much of plan B is for the BS and how much is trying to get a reaction/change out of WS.
For the BS, I think of plan B like this. You have a lovely peice of pie in front of you, you are happily eating until you get to the last two bites. One bite is the perfect blend of crust, filling and topping, and the other bite is a peice of burnt crust with no topping and just a little filling scorched on.
What to do? You probably eat the good peice and toss the burnt crust. You want to leave your mouth with the pleasant taste of pie. I think plan B is for when you get down to that crust and want to leave with a nice memory of that pie.
Statistics seem to prove that A's don't last so one objective is to keep the BS willing to reconcile. So you have to get out while you still have a warm fuzzy for your WS.
For the WS, I don't know. I was never plan B'd and I haven't gotten to plan B yet with WH. But, switch from pie to cake. Now we have the cake eater. We may think that the WS is not cake eating. In my case, I don't think that WH is cake eating, he shows no interest at all in even swiping a little icing off the side of my plate (emotionally speaking). But, if you are going to approach plan B as a tactic to knock someone off the fence, the WH needs to feel like the BS has pulled out of the race (at least the competition for WS). Any comfort that the BS gives the WS at this point does seem to allow the WS to continue the A longer. As a BS, we may not be able to see that the WS is getting anything at all from us, least of all comfort. But I do feel like the WS does feel the reality lifeline from the BS.
How about this? WS has dug himself a very deep hole. For awhile, the BS was up on the ledge, feeding him a safety rope. WS wasn't using the rope, it was just hanging there, but WS knew it would be there for him. The BS says "I am out of rope, time to come back up" (plan B letter). WS keeps digging... BS drops another foot of rope down. The BS keeps saying there is no rope left, but the WS keeps digging and the BS keeps inching the rope down.
At some point, the BS has to stop feeding him rope. Then the WS will keep digging at first (he doesn't believe that the rope is really gone). Maybe, just maybe WS will come to believe that the rope is really extended as far as it will go. Now the WS is a few feet below the end of the rope and wants out. I think WS has to figure out a way to scale the wall until he reaches the end of the rope. The BS can help him from there, but that first few feet of wall scaling is all up to the WS.
If the BS were to drop another few inches of rope at this point, the WS realizes he can happily dig some more and worry about how he is going to get out later.
But, this is all just my random theory and I haven't finished a full cup of coffee yet, so take it for what it is worth
jean36 eav, may I donate my 2cents? In a sense I agree with Jean, the more contact there is the more WH realizes you're still around. I think when he cannot get a hold of you and it appears you're moving on with your life(as he has, allowing the OW to move in), he will realize that he may not have 2 options.
Wh seem to be in a very selfish state and just assume that if they decide to end the A the BS will always be there for them. If he is made to realize this is not the case, he may react differently.
IF OW has kids and neatness issues he may realize sooner rather than later how good he had it- then the choice is yours.
Hope this is helpful.
apl
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I believe that my WH, since he is still supporting me finacially, relieves alot of his guilt that way. If I call him about some car thing, or home repair and let him meet MY need, then he gets to say to himself "See, BS has not really lost much, I don't have to feel bad". Jean - interesting thought. Makes me wonder if my WH is getting one of his EN's met by continuing to contribute to mortgage & bill payments. You must understand that most infidels, IMHO, are not trying to "choose" between the BS and the OP. What they really want is to have both and they are looking for some way to do that. Mulan - That is so true. In Plan A, might WH always said that he just believed I would come to "accept" his and OW's relationship. Ugh. Eave - I am finding it quite hard not to respond to WH"s voice mails lately. But I do understand how it can give WH a warm fuzzy. Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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This has helped me so much. I DO believe my WH is cakeeating on both sides of the fence. But at this point IM not strong enough to go into plan b. But i have started to 'avoid' answering texts etc.
I hope your situation improves Eav. I will keep track of this thread.
Can anyone send me in a good direction for plan b letters?
ta
justine
Me 34,WH 37, Children 7,4,21mths
D'Day 30/3 but awareness of 'depression' 19/3
Moved in with ROOT on 26/3
Plan B 9th May 06
WH nervous breakdown & suicide attempt 14th May 06
Chocolate Root Melted 26th May
Recovering now with baby steps.....
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Juzzie: Do you have a thread? Post on your thread and bring us up to date? What do you mean that you are not strong enough? Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? It will help you with the Plan B letter... Start a new thread or rename your thread: NEED HELP WITH PLAN B and others may direct you to letters... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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thanks Mimi - yes I do, its here.. Its only been 4 weeks (today) since i found out about the A. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=Thanks for your response! Jus
Me 34,WH 37, Children 7,4,21mths
D'Day 30/3 but awareness of 'depression' 19/3
Moved in with ROOT on 26/3
Plan B 9th May 06
WH nervous breakdown & suicide attempt 14th May 06
Chocolate Root Melted 26th May
Recovering now with baby steps.....
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I think ther eis a secondary outcome of Plan B that shouldn't be discounted.
I was told once, and I beleive this, that *nearly* everyone questions their decision to D..."is there something I could have done", "maybe things aren't better after", "perhaps I would have been better off if I had stayed." I think this is especially true if they had jumped right into the OP's marital bed...no turning back doncha know.
The WS lives under this fantasy that there will be no harm in the D, it's for the best, they will be happier once they are D'ed. Everyone will be friends...eventually.
Most of us know that is a load of steaming bullchips. D is not good, for us, for the WS, especially for the children. Like a forest fire, it leaves a wake of devasation...sure after awhile there is regrowth.
What Plan B does is gives the WS the opportunity to see what a D would be like, to try it on for size...the guilt and lack of communication they will have to live with...and they find out it is miserable...
Plan B gives the WS the opportunity to learn regret sooner.
Sure, some WS are SLLooooooow learners, and some never learn, or claim to. But I beleive in the 5% rule...where only 5% of A relationships go on to happy M...(and only 20% even M at all).
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might as well dance!
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I have another long-held theory, one that predates my exposure to MB:
In a relationship, there is a certain amount of sex energy between a couple. This takes the form not only of sex, but all sorts of affective bonds, warm fuzzies, etc.
When Plan B comes down like a knife, there is all this leftover energy. It's UNCOMFORTABLE, because unresolved.
When couples break-up, what they usually do is expend the last quarts of this energy by arguing, fighting, etc. Then they are "done."
But when all this energy is left ... just hanging there ... it makes the new relationship a bit odd and tentative.
That's why you must stay dark. Because they WILL want to fight with you. They WILL want to argue with you. It's a tacky kind of closure. I don't know about you, but I am way-too-easily drawn into a fistfight. In my head still, I play out all the snappy comebacks I'd like to say. If I ever started in on these in reality -- he too would have his snappy comebacks. These scenarios only work to your advantage inside your own head. That's why they should stay there.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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