I'm sorry she's getting the idea she can make plans that don't have to be run by you. Aliens have quite an ego and don't recognize there are other beings in the universe. I'll bet she has no knowledge of NC divorce laws and is assuming she'll soon have access to most of your salary as spousal support. She'll has a rude awakening coming to her over the next couple of weeks. That gymnastics camp idea, though it might be good for some of the time, will probably fly right out of WW's mind.

I see you offering your WW the opportunity to come clean, but you're really expecting too much. She isn't capable of telling the truth right now. (I understand you have to amuse yourself sometimes though.) Just don't let a sarcastic note come into your voice. That would be a LB.

Oh good. The letter will get to the scum on Monday then? What a way to start out the week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am almost convienced that she has an affair phone... should I confront her about it?

The OM contact completely dropped off last week and I am curious, should I just be blunt and say if you have a new phone I need to turn your old one off?

I have the strength I keep tellimg myself and you guys - or I should say longhorn - is keeping straight.

I just don't know how much longer I want to live outside of the home, to get back in I will have to be very in her face with my lawyer.... she wouldn't see it coming in a thousand years she is so in the fog and fantasy

She keeps telling me well I need time to see if I still love your will miss you.... yeah so you can have the free time call the OM and see him

Could it be she's using the land-lines in the home instead of a cell? She might have an affair phone...those disposable things from the convenience store work well for that purpose. Impossible for you to find except by accident. Ask and watch her eyes to find your answer...not that you can do anything about it.

You NEED to be back in that home. If it takes "in your face" tactics, so be it. You can't do a real good Plan A when you're only there part time, and the girls deserve a full-time father too.

All that "I need time," and the classic "I don't know if I still love you," is all fog, Viking. It's also a delaying tactic to keep you from interfering in what she has going on. Ignore it, it means nothing. Let your attorney take care of it.

Sounds like you DID get a bulldog of an attorney. Put yourself in his hands and let him focus on what he has to do while you work on the marriage. You can legitimately tell WW that you "do marriage" while he works to protect you out of sight. Things are percolating pretty good over there in North Carolina. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah I feel more in control... I asked her today about a second phone and she completely denied its but I think she has one.

We talked for about 30 minutes this morning I tried not to LB but she was in trying to push my button's

We told her I wanted to be the father I should have been for the girls, that i want to participate and have quality time with them rather than be their driver or sit on the sidelines...

She keeps saying how its too late and why now, but I keep saying it not just now its been for a while - when she opened up to me to months ago I took notice and started to change things, but that has been revised or glossed over.

We talked about the best thing for the girls and I said, what would you say if I thought them being with me would be the best thing.... I had to pull the phone away from my ear for about 5 minutes as she screamed at me about how she is their mother, and she has raised them, etc etc. I then reminded her all I said was what if I said not that I was going to. I did mention that I would like 50/50 custody and she doesn't like that either, she wants me to watch them when she works and every other weekend....

Attorney said that I can get custody - NC has no preference of which parent has custody as long as its the best for the children

I heard a lot of fog and a lot of babble, it hurt it really makes you feel that they believe it.

I don't know what she will do when the OM gets his letter from the lawyer.... I think I need a prepared statement for her when that happens any ideas?

So I have a question about post notification....


W will probably be irrate, and will say aweful things.

I working on my calm reassuring lines to show her I care, I understand, and that I want our marriage to work.

We are separated and she has insisted that means she can date, which I am not stopping, I am asking her for no contact with the OM.

If she refuses NC w/ OM does should I go into Plan B as I am really a whits end on how I can do more longer Plan A. The babble is deafening.

You're getting some good response on your other thread about what to expect and how to say things to your wife when the letter hits. The only thing I can add is to keep fixed in your mind the idea that you are doing what you have to do to save your marriage. You're sorry it hurts her, but it is necessary. Be calm and don't pay attention to the things she's spewing. Work on your control and be calmness itself.

BTW, you and she are NOT separated and she cannot date. She's married to you and she can't act single. Why not address that issue too and get everything out in the open? She's showing disrespect for the marriage by claiming a "right" she doesn't have.

I hope you can press the issue with your attorney and get back in the home soon. I know you've been doing what you can in Plan A, but it would be best if you could work on it with both of you home. Once there, if you possibly can, work on Plan A some more. Work on it as long as you can until going into Plan B. If you feel your love for her becoming endangered, that's the moment you go to Plan B.

She might want to move out, of course. You can't stop her, but you can stop her from taking the children with her. They deserve to have their home. Check with your attorney, but there is a writ that can be filed to make sure she doesn't leave with them.

If I were you, the second she says she's going to a lawyer, I'd drop separation papers on her simply to protect yourself and the children. If she wants to leave the house, that's fine. You can't keep her there against her will but your children deserve to not become her pawns.

How's that exposure list coming? I'm not sure I've asked this before...have you told your children what is going on? Dr. Harley has specifically stated children need to know why Mom and Dad aren't getting along. The disclosure has to be age-appropriate but they need to know. Don't let them worry that they have caused this rift between their parents. If they don't know, children have assumed that in the same circumstances.

Stay strong, Viking. The babble is deafening, but it's only the wind. There's nothing of substance to it.

Here is an update....

I am not pushing the getting into the home issue right now because I am actually at home more with the girls than ever before, i am just not sleeping there. I get to tuck them in and spend so much more time with them now. Mostly because I am trying to support my wife in her new job, if I didn't do this she wouldn't be able to do the job - that is part of my plan B is I am going to change the schedule that I can see the girls so she will have to find her own daycare... which will be her mom and that will piss her mom off.

So last night I hung out with the girls and did somethings around the house... made the wife dinner (which I was thinking was nice because she has fixed dinner for me for years) Well when she came home, she was crying in pain... her inner ear problem from last week was back and she was in extremely pain. So instead of leaving like I have been I stayed looked after the girls. She has been dowing advil and was almost out. So I offered to go and get some more for her so she could make it through the night... I told my w I would take my youngest to dairy queen so she wouldn't bother her. She has tried not to aske me for anyting since March 31, she asked for a small blizzard which I thought was nice.

I went out got her advil, filled her tank, and got ice cream for everyone. I also talked to the pharmacist and she suggested a heating pad for her ear (it was also on the direction from the ER last weekedn) So I picked on of those up as well. got home her and my youngest got into bed a told her I would be available for whatever she needed and locked the house up and left.

I am not sure what is going on today, I am probably going to have the girls with me the whole day (sweet) and she will probably be back in the ER today because of her ear... or maybe not.

The letter to the OM went out yesterday in the mail so it could be there as early as today or monday.

Exposure list is still being worked on, right now I am not sure who would be the best to expose too, she is just not talking to anyone right now

I broke down the cell bill


March she talked to the OM 2199 minutes or 36 hours worth
April She talked to the OM 1500 minutes or 25 hours worth

Now in april she was able to actually see him more in person so the accounts for less talking on the cell phone.

Now I checked and there doesn't appear to be a second cell phone so she has really dropped conversations with him off greatly... I think mostly because she has been so tired and sick since her folks moved out from our house.

So the fog is there and I think it will continue to be there
I think the fog is more that she doesn't want to work on hte marriage so the OM is just a distraction.

What does your attorney say about getting you back into the house? Does he not think that would be a good thing in a legal strategic sense? It also works in the MB principles. You have to BE there with her, spend time with her for the magic spell of her inappropriate relationship to be broken.

Supporting your wife in her new job is fine, until you begin to make that the focus of your plan. Viking, you cannot shield your wife from the consequences of her adultery. That job may turn out to be a casualty of her infidelity. That's HER problem, not yours.

You appear to think it's a coincidence she started an infidelity at the same time she began complaining about the marriage. That's nonsense. Even if it's entirely correct, it's an inappropriate, cruel, and selfish choice to commit adultery in response to perceived problems in the marriage. Solve the infidelity problem first, Viking, then deal with those perceived problems. MC can help with them. MC cannot help get rid of a third person in your marriage.

Her being tired and sick is an opportunity for you to improve her feelings about you...but don't expect it to happen. She's rewritten history so much you can't possibly make up for everything. Be very, very careful about becoming a doormat, Viking. It's easy to slip from being a supportive, contributing husband to a needy, co-dependent mess of a man. Don't slide into that morass, okay?

Be strong, Viking. Expect to be down some days, but keep your eye on the ball and don’t let it get to you too much. You’re on the right path--the one that can bring her out of this fantasy world and back to her family.

So in the past 6 months there were two other men that she "talked" so I know there is nothing specific about the timing, except she feels empowered because her folks now live here and that this specific guy is very charismatic and has been focused on her attention....

Now I think that is drawing to a close, with her being sick and working so much he hasn't been calling her.

You right I need to focus on the reason's we were having problems and show her that I am fixing them.

I am not a doormat nor will I be one but I do love doing things for her.

So she is suppose to be fixing her mom and dad dinner tomorrow but since she is on pain meds and sleeping most of the day, I am going to clean up tomorrow and make mothers day dinner for her and her folks, but be gone for the dinner, as I wasn't invited.

That may sound like a doormat but its be staying focused on the family which is a complaint of hers.

And about the strategy for getting back home?

The only thing I am not doing in the home is sleeping there, I am in the home with her and the kids MORE now than before I left, I am taking every opportunity to be there during the week and even on the weekends.... and we are talking not much but we are talking....

So I do have a plan to get back into the house, but I am not executing it until at least june 1st... when I start executing my plan B.

Viking? Where are you, pardner? Come talk to us, okay?

So monday was an interesting day... wife has a severe ear problem all weekend and on pain medication... so I took her to an ENT on monday, made the appointment got the kids to school and then took her. Drove her without saying a word, she didn't want to talk. Waited for her at the doctors office and then when she got done, offered to take her to the Olive Garden for lunch (which she likes) So we went to lunch, didn't really say a thing, got a lot of eye rolls because I kept looking at her.

She has asked last week if she could buy some summer cloths... since we said we would discuss finances with each other before spending money.... So I offered to take her to Old Navy (favorite store) and we baught some cloths. She was dissappointed in some of the selections... so I offered to take her to The GAP, second favorite store, so we go there buy some more cloths for her. I pick up a couple of things for myself - I went from a waste size of 44 to 38 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So we go to another store and buy some more cloths for her... as we are walking out of the store she makes a comments... you should go back and get the sales assistance number. I was taken aback by that but didn't LB or say a world.... but I was stewing.

I took her home with her 300$ of cloths and dropped her off didn't say much to her because she is still trying to avoid conversations with me.

after a while I had to call her and tell her how I felt... so I called her and told here....

"You hurt me with the comment about the girl at the store. The whole time we were shopping and you were picking out outfits all I could think about is who was going to see you in those, who were you going to be dating wearing these outfits. I don't it was fair for you to make a comment like that since you were standing next to me the whole time and all my attention was towards you"

She then said that felt like I was looking at her, I said well I wasn't but I thanked her for letting me know how she felt and I would like for her to tell me when I do make her uncomfortable or when she feels I did something.

So this morning as I was going to the gym and to work, she called me and said my youngest had pink eye and if I could travel 45minutes out to the house to take her to the doctor and stay with her so she could go to pre-school.

I am thinking we are separated but I am doing all the things for her that she ask.

My question is besides being a doormat, where do I draw the line.... I know they are my kids and I love them but she calls me whenever she needs something.

How do I handle this situation, I will take care of them when they are with me and she takes care of them when they are with her? She wants me to only have them every other weekend and when she works.... I would like to have them 50/50

Her selfishness and attitude is starting to wear on me, I am not LB'ing and I am doing a good Plan A right now. There has been no a less than 30 minutes of phone calls with the OM in the past 4 days.

I am waiting to see if she goes sees him again this week for lunch.

I asked my lawyer about if I am paying her car payment and she is going and driving the OM around if I could make that her payment... Also my lawyer says that I don't owe alimony since I am taking on all family debt if we do actually divorce.

----
Another update... I am sitting in mcdonald with my youngest and you wouldn't believe who walked in to use the bathroom... the OM.... OMG how I stared to shake, as my daughter and I walked to our table he walked out.... and it was very sureal we both gave that man greating "what up" I think it caught him off guard. I just watched him walk to his truck and then sat down to each breakfast with my daughter and I was shaking with so many feelings but now feel better that I am getting a chance to vent here.

I am sending my W a txt msg to to say who we saw.

Viking, doing everything you can for her has been a concern of mine. With respect, what you're doing is giving her lots of room to stay in contact with OM, but not depriving her of the comfort of having a full-time husband and father to her children. Please show me any indication she's making any adjustment in her life to accomodate sick children...or anything else. She's getting accustomed to her new, independent lifestyle with you always there as a safety net. Independent, except she doesn't have to pay for anything. She wanted you out of the house, but she wants you there for every crisis, major or minor. It's coming close to time for that posture to end. Perhaps when she finds out about the alienation of affection letter to the OM?

Part of her attitude is a by-product of Plan A because Plan A encourages fence-sitting. It's also why Plan A has a definite time limit. Plan A cannot be sustained indefinitely because it doesn't put much pressure on the adultery and break it up. Remember, Plan A exists to set up Plan B and I think you will be able to do a fantastically effective Plan B. It's going to throw a bucket of cold water in her face when she has to start dealing with all of the everyday things you have been taking care of.

What's your time limit for Plan A, Viking? The average for men is six months but it's sometimes not appropriate to go that long, particularly if your love begins to deteriorate in the light of WW's selfishness and attitude. Plans A, btw, are never perfect. I think you've been doing a fine job at it, probably better than most.

Start planning your Plan B, pardner. Your finances have to be separated and some intermediary set up for handing over the children, communication between you and your wife, etc.

I'm on pins and needles waiting for the fallout from that letter to hit the fan. It should have hit yesterday but I suppose the U.S. Mail isn't anymore effective where you are than here.

What do you envision happening in the near future with reference to Plan A ending and Plan B beginning? What is the timing and how will you determine it's time to begin Plan B?

Ironically enought Longhorn, I was already thinking about my Plan B, since I am trying to do just what you say. I trying to foster a sense of security and warmth - that has alwasy been there - but is being intensified on my part because of the separation. So here is what I am thinking for Plan B

I want to write a nice plan b letter to my wife explaining why I need to break contact and get her out of my thoughts. I also want to set boundries around contact and expectations. Like no need to talk until your ready to talk about us.

I want to have a cover letter from my lawyer to my plan B that outlines my legal intentions, ie no alimony, 50/50 custody, I wont pay for her car if she is using it for ex-martial relationships EA/PA or just friends (she told me on a couple of occasions she has chauffered OM around)
The reason for the letter from the lawyer is that it will cost me 75$ vs 700$ if I have him do up separation paperworks. So get same bang for a lot less money.

I plan on around the beginning of June to execute my Plan B. This will be right when she gets out of preschool for the summer and may want me to do more childcare for her.

She is being a real big cake eater on the fence and I am really starting to get annoyed by it and seeing more of this side of her than I want and its is breaking down my spirit to stay committed to the Plan A.

I have already made a committment to myself and god that I will not start a new relationship while my girls are still young and need me. I would rather focus on them and their happiness than worry about dating and the stuff like that. I know I could if I wanted to but I don't.

Okay, sounds good. I'll be interested to see how effective it is to have your attorney inform her of your legal intentions rather than file for a formal separation agreement. My only question is whether there's a chance it might give her a chance to hire a lawyer and get some kind of action filed to force far more support...even temporarily?

Still nothing from the alienation of affection letter? Darn!

So in talking to my lawyer - which was an eye opener - since I am taking on 100% of the martial debt and that I am giving her any proceeds from the house and personal property if we sell the house and that I am paying all the bills while she lives in the house and I have to maintain a separate household. legally she has no ground to stand on. She is in a big house with lights and air conditioner and tv and telephones and I am renting a room froma friend where I don't even have enough room to have my kids come over and sleep over....

Legally I am sitting pretty - my lawyer said that if she hires a lawyer he is going to tell her to take any deal we offer and run with it since in the short term is looks very sweet for her. Now 3 or 4 years out from now, my debt would be gone and I would have a whole lot of income to go and get whatever I wanted for the girls. She on the other hand would probably still be staying with her parents.... Lawyer says North Carolina looks at the earning potential of each spouse not just how much they make, so I could insure I wouldn't have a adjust alimony down the road if she does get off her a#@ and get a better job.

I will not file separation paperwork - I am pro marriage - that will be my wifes decision and action. However I am confident that I can protect myself in any legal matter since I have retained a lawyer and briefed him fully on our situation, so I know where she can come from if she attacks.

Like they say the only winner in a separation/divorce that involves lawyer's are the lawyers...

I am also documenting with the help of my lawyer all my positives in the marriage, like how I have spent more time with the kids than the wife, what I do for church, that I am the only one that takes the kids to church... etc. So if we get down to a custody battle I will look like a good solid parent with a plan.

viking, why can't you get back into your house? I thought that was the goal here? Having you there will make it much more difficult for her to carry on her affair. Without you there, she has it MADE! She has you paying her bills and, in effect, financing her affair.

I don't think you should go into Plan B, you should go home so you can put some pressure on the affair! Her set up now only FACILITATES her affair, at your expense.

You sound good to go, Viking. Kudos!

I would have to go to court to get back into the house - per my lawyer and I am actually spending more time with the kids and at the house than ever before......


SO the LETTER was DELIVERED TODAY and a copy was sent to my house - so my wife saw it and called me on it tonight.
It started innocent enough and then she really started to get angry at me... why did I have to bring a innocent man into this. he didn't do anything wrong.... then she started saying she has never loved me, I never showed effection, all I wanted her for was sex. I have always been about ME and stuff like that

I kept my cool for most of it only going down a few rat holes about why I brought the OM into the fray, I said any man willing to get involved with a married woman, no matter what the state of the marriage is in should be dealt with.

I can tell my her cell phone record that she has stopped stopped calling him and the only contact they have had in the past two weeks was lunch last thursday.

So she kept repeating herself that its over and its over and its over. I kept saying that is your decision but I am going to be here for you and I am committed to our marriage and that all I want is to make something that we didn't have before. I agreed with her that I did it all wrong and all I can do now is improve myself and try to be the best husband possible for her and the girls.

She finally had to call it quites because she couldn't get me to get angry or engage her in the babble.

So she is so animate about getting rid of me and divorcing me and starting her new life why is she still living in the house, using our bank account and living this way.... I think its classic fence sitting and cake eating.


So my question is this, if the OM is out of the picture, there will be obvious withdrawl but to the bigger problem of my wifes fence sitting and cake eating, what can I do to jar her off the fence and spit out the cake???

Should I get hard on her, take her bank card?

Should I have the lawyer send her a letter saying that she needs to contact him about any separation work, as I am not going to deal with her on that??

I know the OM is not gone just far out of the picture right now, so how do I get her back?

Does Plan b come into play eventually??

Financially we can do the separation thing too long or we will be filing for bankruptcy.... I can do this another month before her actions strain us to a point where we can't recover, financially