I get depressed like anyone but its not a great amount and I don't have the personality for depression. I have been focusing on her and her actions I know your right that I need to defocus on her and not get sensitive....

She only got this reconcilator tone when I started ignoring her rants and started to move towards Plan B and she noticed I was not triggering anymore and I was getting ready to move on... So I don't know what she is doing now is a delaying tactic or what....

Its been two months since we separated and she hasn't looked for a job so I am totally responsible for HER and MY finances during the separation.

Viking, I don't understand where you're coming from. You've been all over the map the last couple of days and I can see you're going through a tough time. The depression is stronger now.

What's with this apartment thing? Two days ago, you were saying you couldn't afford to live with two residences. Listen, being a weekend father is not nearly as good as being with them full time.

How in the world would you moving back into the home be a victory for your wife? That's absolutely false. She wants to have the freedom to act single and she can't do that if you're in the home with her. She might well play the victim. So what? She's only a victim in her fantasy world. That doesn't make it real. Look, Viking, nothing you've said about her is impossible to deal with through counseling.

I mentioned anti-depressants early last month to you but I can’t find where you ever responded. Frankly, you need them to help you get through this. They will help even out your moods and prevent low points as deep as this one.

Viking, do NOT make any decisions about recovery until you recover your equilibrium. If you fall into the same fantasy world your wife inhabits, you’ll regret it later. Stay with us, pardner. This too shall pass.

So LH I agree pressure is there but how do I do it correctly? Do I back away for a while and be supportive or do I continue to move in the direction I am?

Yes, the pressure is beginning to work...and always remember this is a battle against the alien who's come into your world. There is no reason to back away right now. Would a Marine commander back off in a firefight when he saw his men were beginning to break through the enemy line? No. If anything, the pressure needs to be ratcheted up. Get back into your family home where pressure against her “single life” fantasy can be increased.

I see in your words some question about whether anything will work, and even if it does, will there be anything there for you at the end. You’re not happy with what you see in your wife/alien and you’re not willing to settle for the old status quo. I agree. Neither of you should settle for what was going on before.

However, you can’t fix those problems with her in her current fantasy world where she believes she can take, take, and take more from you in the marriage but act single and troll for men outside the marriage. The thing is, you have to fix this adultery problem first, and then work on the emotional deficits you’ve been suffering for so long. With no one else intruding into the marriage, the two of you can work on them and solve them.

It might not work out, Viking. Nothing is guaranteed in life. But if you don't eliminate the adultery and then work on the other problems, you'll never know what might have been. If you work through the MB strategy, even if things don't work out, you will have done everything you possibly could to save the marriage. You won't have to wonder about it.

Once you’re back in the home, you’ve been planning to continue doing Plan A in the home for as long as you can. Plan A might bring her around, particularly if you can get her to pay attention during counseling. It probably won’t though. You will probably have to go to Plan B. That’s what you’re working toward and it’ll probably have to be implemented if she doesn’t achieve some breakthrough in counseling. It’s a winning hand, Viking. If anything is going to bring your wife to a realization she needs you and needs to recommit to the marriage, it’s the MB strategy.

Stay on course, Viking. Your plan was to get back in the home where your finances would be in a better state and where you can do a better Plan A and be there for your children. Nothing has happened that should interrupt that plan. Be strong, pardner.

VK,

It would be a big mistake if you don't try to return to your own house, both for your M and the upcoming custody battle. You cannot really work on the M if you are not around.

Second, even though you may have a strong legal case, nothing is guaranteed in court. I should know. Not being in your home will not help you in court. In fact, it will most likely hurt you.

It is not wise to let your emotions of the moment dictate your actions. I know how you feel, but you must follow the plan that was brought about through reason.

Thanks guys... I felt pretty low this moring and last night, I a guess I was doubting my own success. The success of knowing that I have changed and made my self better and presented myself to my wife as a better husband.. I don't need to go back and be sarcastic and mean or spiteful. I need to go back and share with her that I am still focused on the marriage and getting us back together....

I am going to be with two of the girls while the wife takes the oldest to a end of school party.... I am not going down the path of the apartment. I will work on getting back into the house.

Right or wrong I think I will try and share with my wife some of my fears about this week. not all but the one that I had about her change of direction.

She has said she see hope for us and that she needs more time to heal.

I am giving her tonight child support, and per my lawyer since Iam paying in cash I am going to ask for a receipt... to remind her that we are still separated and that hasn't changed.

Again I want to assure you that Iam back on message and point, getting in the house and working on Plan A.... I think truly in her head she doesn't see her conversations as a big deal, she has always had guys talking to her and she really likes the attention. I just need to show her that I can give her attention and be the one for her to lean on.

Okay, that sounds more like the Viking we've come to know.

Choose your battles in this relationship talk. In Plan A, one doesn't generally push for "Relationship" discussions because the wayward spouse isn't ready for them. Be delicate, and above all else, don't expect it to change anything in her mind right now.



You recognize that as a delaying tactic, right? It's just one more attempt of hers to push things on down the road just that little bit more.

Reference her conversations, and particularly the ones that go too far and slip into EA's: how about rereading Dr. Harley's advice in SAA on the requirement for friends to be friends of the marriage rather than individual friends of one partner or the other? It'll give you good ammunition for discussing such things. Also, use Dr. Phil's criteria. If she wouldn't do these things in front of you, it's cheating.

Hang in there, pardner. We're with you.

Got a boost when I went out to the house today.... my oldest came out and met me and said don't tell mom i said anything 'but mom told me that you guys might be getting back together."

So my batteries are recharged a bit now and back in with game face on

Excellent. Your wife is peeking out from behind the alien. Watch for more signs but don't be disappointed if it's a while before you get another glimpse. Baby steps. Now get back in the game, pardner.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Very cool. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"Maybe" beats the heck out of "Never", right?

I'm not wanting to twist your arm, but please..... give some serious thought to talking to your doctor about depression. It made a world of difference for my husband at the time when we were in marital crisis, and he's completely recovered now. He responded very well to treatment, and he only needed the ADs for a few months until he was over the hump.

From here, your "lows" are looking awfully low. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ...and you just don't have to put yourself through all that. There's no stigma. You have nothing to prove. But only a qualified professional can diagnose you. You can't diagnose yourself. Food for thought, that's all.

In the meantime, have some patience for each other. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know. Y'all have alot of work to do. And it's going to take time for you to rebuild emotional trust with one another. The more empathy you can each develop, the quicker the process.

You can help that along by using the Listen, Rephrase, and Repeat method. You want to give and receive the correct message without either of you making assumptions about the other person's motives. Improving the quality of your communications is going to help you both in the process of resolving your conflict.

You might also consider starting a couple of journals. When I was going through my troubles, I kept two. One worked almost like posting on a thread. We could each address the other person's thoughts, and because we were writing instead of talking... we were forced to slow down the process. That gives you a little more time to choose your words and say what you really mean. It does the same for the other person. And it's a great way to explore differing opinions or misconceptions without the 'heat' of poorly chosen words. The drawback is... that you can't have alot of expectations for your mate working at the same pace as you. My husband only made one entry for every SIX of mine. But at the minimum, he was reading along and he could guage my progress, so I felt like he was listening.

I kept a separate journal just for VENTING. This one was completely private, and I poured my negativity into it. It kept me from slopping my anger and vitriol onto my husband. Writing uses up more energy than talking, so I was better able to commit my obsessive thoughts to paper...and keep them from swirling around in my brain distracting me from my goals.

One last thought for you. Your wife has an emotional advantage in that she's better able to access and identify her feelings. I read an interesting article last summer in Reader's Digest and I was lucky enough to find it online.

Very cool article, and well worth reading in it's entirety.... Here


This excerpt rang a bell with me. I have the ability to change emotional gears in a way that my husband doesn't. His first responding emotion when faced with conflict is likely to be Anger. That's not his fault...it's the way God made him. If I give him some time, he can generally manage to identify his feelings and then put them into well-considered words. It's not until after that happens that we can deal effectively with whatever's going on though.

Your wife doesn't have this information. So it's up to you. If YOU realize that sometimes you need to take a breather, you can give yourself time to catch up with your feelings. So, don't be afraid to take a 'time-out' when you need one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I had a good night with the girls, felt down when my wife called she was lost and wanted me to help her by looking up the directions on internet. She was very frustrated and I walked her through her naviation problems... I got hurt when I didn't get a thanks.

I know its normal when a spouse is so distant to the other that simple things like acknowledging things that are not normally done but are is missed.... That is one of the big things I have always missed from her is that I work 60 hours a week for the things we have and I come home and still help her out around the house..... I am not trying to be pretentious I know there are a lot of wifes and mother's that put in as many hours a day as husband's but she has never... she does things but she also has a LOT of break time.

So I am not depressed as much as I am building resentment and tired of being delayed and held off.... She knows that we are now going financially in the whole and the option of letting move into the apartment attached to the house has been out there.... but she has still delayed in making that decision...

She had the girls last weekend for memorial day and earlier in the week we had a argument about custody and needing to follow our guidelines, so I was suppose to be with the girls this weekend but I found out last night they have different plans... so I felt bad, told her but am flexiable and will see them monday.

Today (saturday) I was at work trying to catch up on all the things I haven't done and she called me up.... She gave me this long list of things need for the horses and I said are you wanting me to do them today? Well she is suppose to be responsible for the horses since I am not there, but they haven't been taken care of since I left, besides the basic feeding.... She hasn't gotten any hay for them, and one of them is getting skinny.... Anyways I left work drove an hour to the house, went and got the feed and stuff that she asked for... went into the house did some laundry, cleaned up the dish's on the table from their breakfast (kids fixed it) and vacuumed OUR bedroom and made OUR bed... stuff I normally do when I am there.

So she called me a bit ago - and thanked me for each thing I had done and we talked a bit. All 3 daughters are in 4H and she is a co-leader, lately I have been doing 4H stuff in her absence... I made the comment if we got things back together I would love to do 4H as a family and she agreed thought it would be a bonding and building experience...

So that really makes my day.... the things that still bother me are our finances and the fact she has not looked for a job.... She does have a phone interview for the radio gig on monday, but I think she is a long shot and I know its going to kill her if she doesn't get it.... she is the type to put all her hopes and dreams into something like this and will get down if it doesn't happen.

I so much want to be there for her either way.

Viking, take what thanks and admiration you can get for now and don't worry about what is lacking because the rewards in this program are all at the back end. It’s not time yet. Hold that resentment at bay using whatever means you have. Go to the gym and pound the body bag into insensibility or something. Work off the frustration there, so you have more patience elsewhere in your life.

Have you seen the attorney yet about starting things moving to get back in the home? You can't be there for her if/when the radio job falls through if you're not there.

I have to disagree with you in one thing. I think you are getting your message across to her, or she wouldn't be giving out tidbits like "mommy and daddy might be getting back together," or speaking of "bonding experiences." You must keep on your guard though. They could also be ploys to lull you into over confidence while she cultivates a relationship with OM#3, or whatever number she's up to.

I think you can increase the pressure on her to make her see you’re an indispensable part of her life. When the request came about the horses, I know you couldn’t TELL her she was supposed to take care of them. But…you could have pointed it out to her by saying something like, “I didn't realize you hadn’t had time to get around to them.” I think that would do the job. She knew the horses needed attention or she wouldn’t have asked you, and she knew (even if it was deep down) it was something she should have been doing. It would be a subtle way of letting her know she needs you for still one more thing.

Also, if you hadn’t cleared up the breakfast dishes and done the cleaning, that would have been another subtle reminder of what your absence means. Perhaps you could have said, “I recognize you feel you must have some independence right now so I didn’t intrude by doing (whatever).” Do the things necessary for your children’s health but leave the details to her. See where I’m headed with that?

With you working hard on getting back into the home by legal means, it might seem such opportunities are going to be limited in the future. I don’t think so. I believe you can come up with a zillion little hints you can drop now and in the future. What do you think?

All of the things lacking in her contributions to the family are things that need to be resolved. I’m urging you to note them, journal them (you’re still doing that, right?), but set them aside as much as you can until couples counseling is something she’s participating in voluntarily and without reservation. It’ll be a while, but I think all these issues have resolutions that will spread the load more evenly between the two of you.

Hang in there, Viking. Expect there to be days when WW is petulant and unresponsive because she still will be. There are times though, when she’s peeking out from behind that alien who trolls for other men and those times seem to be increasing. Take hope but be vigilant.

I am getting into those percarious situations where the person I use to love now hate that I want to love again is talking to me... I don't want to get into a trap of talking R.

but that is all I want to talk about with her.

I am good conversationalist with everyone but her how do I restart having chats with her without being so nervous

Have your topics ready before you're ever near her. Start with the weather if you have to, then tough it out like that briefing you had to give to the old man that time. You got through that. You can get through a conversation with your WW.

So late yesterday my wife called and talked briefly and she told me thank you for the things I had done for her yesterday. besides taking care of what she asked I did things around the house... well she was having her girlfriends over last night they do this girls night where they spend the night... well our house it probably the best place for it right now because I am not there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> anyways.... after the call I sent her this txt I think it was okay?

"Thank You for the recoganizion earlier for the things I did around the house, it means a lot to me coming from you. Its something I have always wanted and needed.

Hope to talk to you later <me>"

So she is usually really tired after staying up most of the night with her girlfriends so I offered to come out in the afternoon and get teh girls and take them to the pool so she could rest.... she also has a meeting sunday night that she needs me to watch the girls...

Question - my wife in the past has complained - made comments like that all I think of her is a piece of meat and all I want from her is sex. Last time we separated (in-house) she was the one that initated first SF because she wanted it..... Now I am starving for SF but don't want to miscommunicate that we are friends with benefits type thing.... Do I politely refuse any advance or offer? or see it as meeting an EN? for both of us <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

She did ask me what I was doing yesterday afternoon, I said a friend of mine and I were going to look at apartments, she how I thought he had a house, I said he did - we're looking for me" No more conversation about it after that.

Unless there are concerns about STDs with an active sexual affair underfoot, I wouldn't think that SF should be necessarily avoided. It's an EN, and in Plan A.... you're identifying and fulfilling your partner's ENs, right?

Your best bet is probably to follow her lead. There is a history of misunderstanding and miscommunication as witnessed by the "piece of meat" comment. (Lot's of women go through that you know. The female libido is more fluid than static, and most women will have fluxuations in it over the course of her lifetime. Mismatched libido is a common enough problem in alot of marriages, so I hope you haven't internalized those kind of comments.)

I haven't internalized them I am just being aware of her feelings and needs, I find my wife very beautiful and very sexy but I don't want her to think that is where I am at... just about the physical.

I would rather lay in bed holding her than anything else right now.

I am going over later to take the kids out.

Follow her lead regarding SF for now.

Why are you looking for an apartment or even telling her you are? That sends the wrong signal.

ON another note....

I went to MC on Thursday without wife and we talked about getting back into the house she advised against it strongly, she said I might be right, justified and legally capable but she thought that it would destroy any short or long term chances for us. Now I have heard very MB like comments from our MC and she is pro marriage and she thinks ours can be saved, but she strongly advised against it....

She is wanting to see my wife in IC starting this week, she wants to know what my W thinks and what is causing her current actions - I don't think its all me and I think that is what MC thinks.

I asked about how then I handle our financial problems - caused by my W's need for space but lack of committment on searching out a real job....

She said that is upto me, if I can live like I am or need an apartment that is my decision, she said I need to discuss it with W so she knows why I am doing it, then let my wife make her own decision's.. like is she willing to pay part of the mortgage? Does she want me to move back in with pre-stated boundaries (no dating, no acting single)

So I will have to wait and see how things go this week, I have a feeling that by the end of this week I will have a lot better understanding of what my W intentions are, either way

Okay. I wish you all the luck in the world in saving your marriage.