FH -

You've mentioned a couple of times that you've been dealing with ongoing contact of some nature for several years in your situation, I believe.

I have a strong suspicion that there is still some level of contact between my wife and OM. She did tell me about the most recent one, and I thanked her for that. On a practical side, I also know that I would have found out about that contact because it was via cell phone, and I can check those records. I have access to most of her e-mail, but not all, and I have suspicion that there's been e-mail contact through one of the accounts that I don't have access to, though I have yet to ask her (and doubt if she'd give me a wholly 100% truthful answer anyway).

Things between MP and I are going pretty well right now - she's not as distant as she was a few months ago, and I think she's leanning more and more in the direction of our marriage, though she's still watching me quite closely to see how long I'll stay the new me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

On a personal level, in the end it's either me or not me (regardless of how OM plays out). In other words, my boundary is NC, and the consequence is that if she can't or won't establish it completely and permanently, then I will remove myself and our family as a choice for her (I do not mean that I would keep our kids from her).

It's been about 6 months since D-Day, and I'm still perfecting my Plan A. The contact is a point of contention, obviously, but I can't force the issue.

So I guess my question is, what do I do about it? Accept it as part of the current situation and continue to Plan A and work on my relationship with God? Berate her about contact and/or my suspicions? Give her an ultimatum (not a good idea, as I know my wife and I know what the response to that would be, and my gut tells me that the time for such an ultimatum has not yet come)?

I understand my role from a Christian perspective, as outlined in Ephesians 5. My wife is also a Christian, and I do know that she is conflicted over this situation (which is a good thing, IMO). Am I playing the fool by meeting her needs (willingly, because I want to, not because expect her to fall at my feet or whatever)?

I do know, looking back over the last month, that I've not been as dutiful in my personal walk and spiritual stewardship of my family as I was a few months ago, and I'm taking steps to address that issue. I need to stop using Christ as my "big red button - push here in case of emergency" and begin using Him as my "Where do I go today?" navigator. Things are better (I feel) than they were, and this would be the worst time to push God out of the driver's seat (again) and take over...talk about leaving the door open for the enemy to pop back in....

I fear I've rambled, but hopefully you can pull the essentials out of my post. I'm basically looking for advice or suggestions on how to work through this current period.

brokenbird,

I am confused by your post. In one breath you state that you doubt her being NC and in the next you tell us that NOT having NC is a deal breaker for you.

If you confuse me with this message , what message are you conveying to your WS?

Sorry for the confusion. The long-term deal breaker is NC; in other words, I'm not willing to give up the ship yet because NC is not in place - but at some point I will have to say enough is enough.

I should also clarify that the contact is only via voice, message or e-mail/chat, if it's occurring at all (and I'm not being paranoid). OM is in a different state (or at least, he was last I heard a week ago).

So, currently my belief is that my wife is trying to maintain NC, but keeps getting beaten down by withdrawal. I'm willing to do what I can to help her through this, but at some point if NC can't be established, I may have to have look at other options. Any clearer?

This last "go around" of contact my wife said to me that she needs to tell herself that contact HURTS me and, therefore, she should resist any urge to contact no matter how hard they pull on her "caring spirit" heartstrings to come and help them. She said that she needs to remind herself that she needs to consider my need for her to "care" more about me than being a help to the OM or his family.

Recovery for a WS from an involved Class II affair is long and tedious a lot of time....and it DOES require a lot of patience and endurance on the part of the BS.

Philippians 4:13 and Romans 8:28 are key verses to sustaining in the face of contacts when they are NOT contacts based in resuming or maintaining an affair.

How long? Only you know the answer to that question because only you knows the totality of your wife's recovery efforts and commitment to the Lord. But contact MUST end forever at some point. Only you can determine when, and if, that point is reached where you no longer believe that complete FIDELITY can be reestablished.

Edited to add the following:

It is essential, imho, that when you are aware of a contact, that a discussion follows wherein the total UNacceptability of any contact with anyone involved in the former affair, especially the Other Person, is restated, the questions asked as to WHY there was a contact and WHY they thought it was OKAY to have a contact regardless of what that person did to try to destroy your marriage? Ask, "are the needs or reasons you perceive for the other person MORE IMPORTANT than mine or this marriages'?" "Do you not understand that No Contact MEANS No Contact, not for ANY reason, for the rest of our lives? That person on longer exists or has ANY bearing on our marriage. IF it is NOT so, then there is no "forsaking ALL others" and no marriage. I am here...will you be here?"

Confrontation, in LOVE, is part of the process. It is, in recovering from infidelity, going to teach YOU huge lessons in "Forgiving Seventy times Seven times," and how HARD it is but how NECESSARY it is.

Understand that I am talking about "stupid" contacts, not willful "let's get the affair restarted or continued" types of contacts and False Recovery.


God bless.

FH -

Thank for the input. I didn't reiterate my stance on No Contact after the last known occurence. I probably should.

Actually, part of what I've been struggling with is how to tell my wife, in a loving manner, that contact has to end forever, at some point, or I will remove myself and our family as one of her choices? (Again, I will not keep her from the kids).

She knows I've been struggling with some stuff the last few days, though I haven't told her what it is (schedules are a bit packed right now). I do try and look at things in a positive light - the fact that she notices that I'm not 100% normal (whatever that is) means a lot.

In general, I try to focus on the positives and what I can do. It dose get hard sometimes. I ran across some...let's call it information...a couple of days ago that really spiked the struggle for me. I've managed to work through it a bit because it's all relatively old - 99% of it from when the A was full blown, and the other 1% is over a month old. I bounce that against the general upbeat feelings and connectedness we seem to have had for the last 3 weeks, and that's why I'm against a hard and fast ultimatum at this point.

Balancing my need to get things off my chest (which is something she's wanted me to do for a long time, rather than holding them in and stewing on them) and pushing too much relationship talk is tough at times.

Anyway, I will continue to state my boundaries (without trying to educate her), and see where things go from here. For now I'll continue to do my best to draw on the Lord's strength, as there's no way I can do this on my own. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here's another thing you can do while "waiting on the Lord." You can start thinking about the positive things you have learned about your walk with Him as a result of what you have had to face and endure, as well as His strength to help get you through those "learning processes." Refining fire is still fire and it is still not easy to endure. But the working out of changes in MY life have been easier to see when I "look back" to how I was and what I felt "back then."

If you'd like, I can comment on what I told my wife in response to just what you are feeling; "Actually, part of what I've been struggling with is how to tell my wife, in a loving manner, that contact has to end forever, at some point, or I will remove myself and our family as one of her choices? (Again, I will not keep her from the kids)."

Just remember that YOU have to read your wife to know if the contacts are part of the disentanglement process or if they are really a restarting or rekindling of the affair. The second scenario is serious because you would not be in Recovery then. The first is difficult, because ANY contacts cuts the BS to the bone. Sooner or later you will have to tell her that you simply don't have it in you to continue on if she CAN'T bring herself to stop. You will love her and forgive her, but you won't live with her, having to look over your shoulder all the time for the next contact with the person who had set out destroy your family.

God bless.

FH -

I can look back and see some of the thing God has done in my life over the last 6 months. Unfortunately, I've come to realize that I've handed Him back quite a mess to fix, so He's got His hands full with me. Good thing He's got big hands <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am in a better place than I was 6 months ago. Things do not appear to be as bad as they were, so my one of my constant struggles right now is to stay focused on God daily. For whatever reason, at least for me, it seems real easy to "not need God" when your world isn't in the process of completely shattering around you.


Yes, I would appreciate that (unless what you wrote following that paragraph was it).


This is the hard part for me. So much of what I have to decide is based on what my gut tells me. My gut is generally a good indicator of things (though I suppose it's more the Holy Spirit prompting me than any intuition on my part), but it has been wrong on occasion.

If there is contact that I don't know about (and there are a few contacts that I'm aware of that she hasn't told me about), I do believe that the frequence is way, way down from where it was when the A was full-blown. I guess right now I'm still willing to extend grace, so to speak, and let her work it out. I do not think I can wait forever though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

By the way, what is a Type II affair? I've heard the term a couple of times, but I'm not familiar with the definition.

brokenbird - Yes, what I wrote, and will re-post here, is essentially the answer to your question. One thing you must remember is that ANYTIME there has been a contact that you are award of, especially if not volunteered to you, you MUST lovingly confront the "choice" to contact. It is a choice that says your hurt and pain is not important that her need for contact, for whatever reason or excuse, is what is MOST important. Putting "self" ahead of spouse is NOT what marriage should be about. If it were, you "should" kick her to the curb as your response to her adultery instead of forgiving her for inflicting so much pain and attempting to recover a marriage WITH her.

IF the contacts seem to keep happening over time, sooner or later you will have to tell her that you simply don't have it in you to continue on if she CAN'T (for whatever reason) bring herself to stop. You will love her and forgive her, but you won't live with her, having to look over your shoulder all the time for the next contact with the person who had set out destroy your family.




A "Type II" Affair is referred to as an "involved and emotionally entangled affair." You can read all about Types I, II, and III, and how to recover from them, the challenges, etc., in a book called Torn Asunder by Dave Carder. It is written from a Christian perspective and is one of my favorites, and most helpful.

God bless.

FH -

Thanks again for the advice and information.

I've been reluctant to confront her on contacts that I know about because she'll probably figure out where I got the info and not use that avenue any longer. I recently found a number of things (most of which, but not all) I knew about. It's sent me on a whole rollercoaster ride for the last week, even though I keep telling myself it (or most of it) is from when the affair was full blown.

On the flip side, I'm tempted to remove some of it because it's in a place that could accessed by other people, though they'd have to go looking for it (but not very hard).

I'd like to install some logging software on her laptop, but I don't have access to it (at least, I'm pretty sure she changed the password after she installed a new OS on it - she did give me her old one).

One approach I've thought of using is simply saying something along the lines of "I feel very strongly that there is contact that I'm not aware of, and I was hoping you'd be able to show me that I have nothing to worry about by showing me <insert account> here."

If I do confront her about the contacts I know of, I won't beat around the bush or try to play games (like I have in the past); I'll simply say I know contact happened on date such-and-such by this method, and see where the chips fall.

I feel very much like I'm in limbo right now, even though the last 3 weeks or so have been pretty good in a lot of ways. Unfortunately, while many things for me are negotiable, OM and I are mutually exclusive choices.