So, I'm thinking of calling OMW to expose. WW says affair is over but she sees OM at work every day and I have my doubts. She certainly is still emotionally attached to him. I'm thinking I should use a calling card and call from a pay phone to hide my number. I figure if I don't get to talk to her and OM sees my number on caller id he will make up a some crazy story about me. Does a calling card hide your number from the person you are calling if you use your own cell phone? Any tips?

First, don't think about it - do it. ASAP. I just did it 9 days ago and I am glad I did and wish it had been done sooner. Not sure what the end result will be, but I am glad I did it, no matter what.

I don't know what number would show up - and I would not take the chance. It needs to be a surprise.

Or, test it and see - call your own phone from your cell using the card - not foolproof, but may work.

I'd use a payphone - or do it in person.

Either way, I would do it now.

Also, I assume you do know that your WW is probably lying. I think they all do.

c man - your suspicions are warranted. Very wise.

I assume you expect OMW not to be home when OM is working?

I think if you use a pay phone that a dime (quarter?) would work just fine vs a calling card. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I bet caller ID would see past a calling card used on a cell phone.

I'm expecting that she won't pick up for strange number. I have no idea if she works or not, but I'm hoping she is home while he is working.

Then you've got nothing to lose.

Alternatively, consider visiting her in person while he's working - so you can show your evidence.

If you go the phone call route, offer to show your evidence. The point of this is unsuspecting BSs usually go into immediate denial and defend their spouses. I did. The risk of the phone call route - even if you offer to share evidence - is that the "new" BS might immediately contact the WS to report the "crank call." The WS then has the opportunity to play damage control and placate the BS. But this is better than no exposure at all - it will still get the attention of the WS.

If I'm giving you the impresion that this is nasty, nasty business, full of deviousness and deception, good. It is.

WAT

Mr. C, you need to call OMW. Don't let it slide and don't agonize over it -- don't over think the issue. The plain fact is that she deserves to know the truth about what is happening so she can repair the breach in her own marriage. You would rather someone had called and let you know what was going on, wouldn't you?

If you don't want to use your own cell phone and a pay phone isn't an option, consider one of those disposable cell phones sold at virtually every convenience store these days. You can't get more anonymous than that.

I’ve read your thread on “Recovery” and I suggest you don’t bother keeping an active thread there. Bring everything over to GQ II. As a number of folks told you over there, your wife’s adulterous relationship with that other man looks to be very much alive and it will be until she breaks all contact with him.

Your post seems to say you're only considering exposure to OMW. Am I misreading that? Are you exposing to others also? If you aren't, why not?

Exposure, Mr. C, is the single most powerful tool you have to bust up the adultery. If you do not use the tool out of "consideration" for your wife's feelings, embarrassment, or ignorance, you are throwing away your best chance of beginning the process of patching up your marriage. In your case, exposure in your wife’s and the OM’s workplace can be especially effective. The rule of thumb I like to use is to expose the obscenity of adultery to anyone who can put pressure on that behavior.

Beyond exposure, what is your plan to fix your marriage? Have you studied Dr. Willard Harley’s book, Surviving An Affair? Have you read up on Plans A and B? Outline the steps you’re going to take to revive your relationship with your wife, Mr. C. You need a plan, sir. It cannot be a hit or miss proposition because it’s too important. Finally, like others, I recommend you schedule a counseling session with Steve Harley. The instructions for getting a session with him are on this site.

Her work friends already know it happened. Her parents know she has "feelings" for somebody else. Who else would I epxose to? Her boss? The affair was (is?) with a co-worker.

Mr. C

First, specifically how do you know that your WW's friends and parents know? If it's just because your WW says that they know, don't count on it...

Yes, expose to her boss...actually you should expose to the Human Resources Dept. and cc her boss and his(if they are different)...in your letter point out that workplace affairs often lead to sexual harassment lawsuits...at the end of your letter, ask what they plan to do about the situation...Send it registered mail so you will know that they have gotten it...

Also, dialing *67 on your phone before placing a call should block the number from appearing on caller id...not sure if it works on a cell phone...

Mrs. W

Additionally...

You should contact your wife's friends and parents and tell them that you are trying to save your marriage and would appreciate any help that they could provide for you along those lines...Your HR letter should also state your intentions for saving your marriage...Exposure is to bust up the affair and is never intended to be used as a vindictive tactic...I think that you already understand that...

Mrs. W

You can call or send a formal letter (perhaps even via registered mail) to the Human Resources Director of the corporation and express your dismay there is a climate within the organization where two coworkers use company time and resources to conduct an adulterous liaison. (I’ll bet they emailed, instant messaged, etc., each other at work. Adulterers can’t resist it.) I don’t know how far up in management your wife is or the OM is. If either is in a managerial position with supervisory responsibilities that even might someday include the other, then it’s improper and the company needs to know. Research your wife’s contract with the company. It may include a “morals” clause and you can point this out to the HR Director. What are her company’s policies on inappropriate relationships with coworkers? These are just some things off the top of my head.

Other avenues for exposure include her parents and siblings (as well as your family), your pastor or priest, and the officers/members of any clubs or societies your wife belongs to. Don't just let your wife convey the idea she has "feelings" for someone. That's not what happened. She committed adultery. Don't make it pretty. It isn't; it’s slimy and obscene. Don't let her get away with telling people it was something bright and shiny. Make sure her parents have the truth and let the chips fall where they may, as the saying goes.

Again, anyone who can reasonably be expected to put pressure on the adultery is fair game. This doesn’t mean you look up your wife’s high school teachers and tell them about her adultery. The idea is not to get revenge. You cannot let yourself be spiteful.

However, if there’s someone out there who can (with perhaps as little as just a disapproving glance) put pressure on the two adulterers, bring that someone in on your side. Don’t neglect your children. Dr. Harley recommends letting them know about the adultery also.

Hope this helps, Mr. C.

I called OMW today, no answer. I drove by, OM was home, OMW was not.

So maybe I'll try again tomorrow, but I am losing my nerve a bit. I sort of wonder if it is the best thing for my marriage at this point in time, which seems kind of late as the physical part ended 9 months ago. I also wonder if the posters here, because of their own personal experiences, are just out to see all cheaters exposed, regardless of whether or not that is the best thing for the person looking for help. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate all the posts of encouragement and guidance. But people often have their own agendas, whether they know it or not.

Also, tonight I asked F(?)WW to open up cell phone records to me (they were password protected) and she said she will and she understands my concern. This has been bothering me for some time and I finally got up the courage to confront her about it.

Because she is being reasonable about that, and we just got back from a weekend trip for our 10th Anniversary, which was her even her idea, I feel like why now? Why expose now? But I have to admit the trip wasn't a huge success, she still is not close to me and I had to plead for any physical contact. Not exactly the turning point I was hoping for.

I can tell you from my experience here, where I've posted to TONS of people, that there have only been 2 people that were sorry they exposed. One was Filly, who got attacked, beat up, and put in the hospital by the OW after she exposed to the OW's husband. The other is Nellie, who still posts, but didn't recover her marriage. She said she wished that she had just ignored the whole affair.

I've read about hundreds that were glad they exposed.

Mrc, you are right, we do have agendas. Our "agenda" is to see you save your marriage like many of us have done. You are going to lose your marriage unless you bust up this affair and the most powerful weapon you have at your disposal is EXPOSURE. Exposure is simply RUINOUS to affairs. We know how effective it is, which is why Dr. Harley and the other experienced posters here will suggest it. Dr. Harley also has the same "agenda" as the rest of us and he wholeheartedly recommends exposure. That is, if you want to save your marriage.


As long as your wife works with the OM, your marriage will NEVER recover because she will never withdraw. As long as it is kept secret, there is no hope of killing the affair.

Until contact ends, there is no hope of recovering your marriage. It will never happen.

What you are doing is the same as sending a "recovering" alcholic in the bar every day and giving him drinks, but calling it "professional" drinks. Do you imagine the alcoholic will ever withdraw or recover? Not until complete and total abstinence takes place.

If you imagine that your W's affair is over while she continues to see the OM every day, I promise you are sadly mistaken. You are facing an on-again, off-again affair that can go on for years if you continue to ignore this.

Affairs can only survive under the veil of secrecy, and by helping the affairees keep their secret, you are ENABLING their affair. You are aiding and abetting the affair, my friend. Otherwise known as contributing to your own demise.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Mr. C...

To give you some perspective, I am a FWW...my husband, Mr. W did not expose(he had yet to find MB), we both see that if he would have exposed, my affair would have ended immediately...we also know that exposure would have saved us both a lot of pain and agony...We got VERY lucky...my OM was single and 750 miles away...once Mr. W found out about the affair he was home almost all the time, which #1, put a stop to a lot of contact between the OM and I and #2 shed a lot of reality to the fantasyland of the affair...I exposed myself to my parents, which REALLY PO'ed my OM(he and I are from the same small town and he knew my parents b/c he was my HS/College BF)...MORE REALITY...He began to see me as far too much trouble and bowed out...that does not always happen, again, we got lucky...still can you see how just a few others knowing put pressure on the affair to end? And withdrawal was H E L L! But without it, we NEVER would have recovered our marriage...

And now you are thinking well, our situation is different...and yet Mr. C it is the same, as are all affairs, stick around, read the stories you will identify with much, affairs are VERY "cookie cutter"...Let me tell you what would have happened if I would have seen the OM on a daily basis, first of all I wouldn't have been such trouble to him, because I would have been right there...like an addict of any kind, I would have continued to manipulate, and rationalize and justify to get my high, and make no mistake about it, that's exactly what an affair is, an addiction and the OP is the high...Trust me, my affair would have continued on some level...I CAN MOST DEFINITELY PROMISE YOU...

But maybe you are right, your situation is different than ours...I gotta tell ya, that personally, I 'd say that it's worse than ours because your WW actually does see her OM everyday...I showed you above what would have happened if I have been in the position that your WW is in, and I'm not lying to you...I have absolutely NO reason to, but as a FWW, I do know, I really do...As Melody told you, as long as your WW continues to see him she will NEVER withdraw...even if she takes breaks, the affair will resume on some level...no withdrawal=no recovery...or, at best, a false recovery...which means that you will have another D-day...can you stand that pain again? I would wish that on no one...

Telling the other man's wife is an absolute...it simply MUST be done...Dr. Harley recommends telling the other betrayed spouse ALWAYS...even if the affair ended years ago...First, it is a moral obligation, the OMW deserves to know about the choices that her WH and your WW were making about her life, she deserves the chance to recover her marriage, you not telling her is VERY CRUEL...and also, telling OMW will serve as insurance that the affair will not resume, she will be your ally in this...

The people here have no motivation to tell you to expose other than you are here asking for help and we are motivated by wanting to help you save your marriage...Exposure is not meant to be used to be vindictive, it is meant to be used as a tool to end an affair...In fact, it is the most powerful tool that a BS has...as you have been told, your marriage can survive your wife's anger, but it CANNOT and WILL NOT survive an ongoing affair...your call Mr. C...None of us can help you if you choose not to help yourself...I sincerely hope that you will not continue to allow fear to paralyze you...I do understand, but I want better for you and your wife...I know that you do to, right?

Mrs. W

From Penalty Kill


Mr C, I will admit to being somewhat of a suspicious person. How do you know for a fact that the physical part ended?


And I told you before, that in the case of an A that is long dead, where there has been NC, I do not believe in exposure. No flames please.


I agree. But in your case, I don't think people have an agenda. I think that they have seen many cases, *not just their own*, where contact is ungoing, and the A has gone underground. And as I said before, the contact does not have to be sexual in order for it to be poisoning your M.


Well, did she do it? Did she show you all the calls she has made and received in, say, the last month? Will she show you her emails? Will she open her life to you, out of concern for your well-being?

When I ended my A, everything in my life became an open book. Email browser left open, cell phone on table. These handy devices we count on are great for cheaters...and not so great if someone decides to investigate.


Well, she was probably missing OM. Hard to take? You bet. Look, until she leaves her job and finds another, you are always going to have a problem in your M. And be honest with yourself....how do you feel that she is only considering her own feelings by keeping the job? Shouldn't her priority be your marriage? Shouldn't she give it a concerted effort, rather than a [email]half-@ssed[/email] one?

MrC, I wish you well. Expose or don't expose, it's your call. *If* your wife had a change of heart, quit her job, found another, opened up her life to you, and all her electronic means of communication, I would say "don't expose".

But that hasn't happened - not even close. I sense a partial effort on your wife's part, and your frustration.

Take care.

Mr. C,

I haven't been around as long as some of the people posting here, but I'll relate my experience. I found out about 17 As and discovered that one of my children isn't mine all in a 48 hour time frame. I didn't really do anything for a while except blame myself for being stupid and the like. (that wasn't what I needed to do)

I tormented myself, much like you are doing, about exposure. Once I realized that it was my WWs actions that would cause her "discomfort" in her other personal and professional relationships and not the fact that I was exposing... once I realized that is was my WWs choice to do what she did and not mine, exposure was instantly the right thing in my mind.

Be prepared, though. Put a plan together so that the people most likely to influence her are exposed to at the same time, otherwise, she has the opportunity to run around and put out fires.

Be prepared also for the fact that she is going to be mightily upset when she finds out. Ohhh, sweet mama, my WW was boiling. I had never been in a situation where I was so angry and hurt but wanted to laugh so hard as when my WW came to me and said, "You tattled to my mommy?!" But ya know what? There's NC now and even though it took us a therapy session and 3 or 4 days for her to get beyond being upset with me, I feel it was well worth it.

Now, we're dealing with her phases of emotions. Loves me but not in love with me, doesn't believe in God anymore, dislike for her current job position, etc. 2 things we don't do, though. We don't talk about the OM and we don't talk about the A. We go talk about what the counselor wants us to in session, we do our homework, and the rest of the time I consentrate on Plan A.

If you want to make sure OM gets and stays out of the picture, start letting the info fly. Just be sure that you're talking to people who can influence the situation and that you're clear that you want to save your marriage and that you're asking for their help and support to meet that goal.

Good luck. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MrC, no matter what your W does in relation to the affair, the OMW does need to be notified. No matter what the state of the affair or how much time has elapsed, she needs to be told, just as MrsW said. As Dr. Harley - the expert here, after all - would tell you, the OP's spouse should ALWAYS be told, no matter how much time has elapsed. The OP's spouse has a right to this information and there is simply no legitimate reason NOT to inform her.

I realize it is a scary thing to do, but the benefits far outweigh any temporary anger you may have to endure. The nuclear explosion of exposure is poison to the affair and that makes it all very much worth it.

You know I asked this question a few yrs ago...

exposure right?

If from where I stand 1 in 3 serious asaults( from last I read) results from sexual jealousy... As much as I HATED the OP a log time ago and probably wanted her to fall under a few big wheels( repeatedly maybe).

That feeling has now gone

is not there a chance, someone could get hurt? Or worse..someone could get hurt and then some one spends a lifetime regretting that.

Max

Yes, having affairs most certainly could lead to an assault. That is why it is not wise to commit adultery.