Hi all,

I’ve been lurking here for awhile but this is my first post. I’m 7 months past D-Day and still really struggling with my ambivalence about staying in the marriage.

Long story short:
Me: BS, 31
Him: WS, 37
Together 7+ years, married 3+, no kids

Husband had 9 month PA with coworker. He ended it of his own accord 7 months before I found out (emails). However, even after the sex was over he kept spending a LOT of time with OW and lying to me about it – lunch every day at work, drinks after work, going over to her house when I was out of town etc. So essentially the betrayal went on 15 months and would have continued indefinitely had I not found out. I guess it was a nine month PA followed by a 7 month EA, strangely enough.

Like many here, the discovery was a HUGE shock to me. Looking back I feel so stupid for not seeing the obvious signs, but I trusted him completely and I thought we were really happy. I also always thought he was the most sincere, loyal, devoted, honest man I’d ever met (HA!). We were making plans to buy our first home and talking about having kids. He always acted like he was totally in love with me and very happy. My mother died not long before discovery and I’d had a horrible time with my sister (unhinged at the best of times) being a maniac. At the time I kept telling myself that it was all ok because I had such a wonderful partner and great friends. So it really pulled the rug out from under me even more than it might normally have.

On top of all that, I found out that a friend had seen him months before holding hands with OW in the street. My friends agonized over what to do and one called and confronted him, he denied it, but they didn’t say anything to me. I guess I understand why – they thought they’d done the best they could; they didn’t have hard proof ; they wanted to believe him – but it certainly amplified my feelings of betrayal.

And, on top of all THAT, the actual reason I discovered the affair was that I found evidence that he’d registered for an escort agency site in our city. I was so shocked by that and went looking through his emails to see if I could find anything more and BOOM, discovered the affair. He still denies he ever slept with prostitutes but a lot else has come out in the aftermath about his compulsive porn use, so I have my doubts. The evidence adds up (the site, the fact I did, several times, notice large sums of money inexplicably gone after pay day) but I’ve asked and he’s denied so often that it feels like there’s no point asking any more. My gut tells me there’s more I don’t know but he swears he’s come totally clean.

Also, shortly after Dday he said “there’ve been others”. We were long distance for a year for complex reasons, but still supposedly monogamous. He admitted there’d been two woman he “dated” during that time but claims that nothing, not even kissing, happened. Frankly I still think this is a lie. I think he was about to come clean but saw the look of shock on my face and realised that revelation would be one too many (and he would have been right). But again, he has sworn so many times that’s all there was too it that I’ve given up asking.

In a way I am much luckier than many people here. He immediately said he’d do whatever it took to work things out. He quit his job, we moved suburbs (she lived nearby), we’ve been going to marriage counseling, he changed his cell phone number, he’s been being completely transparent. He has been steadfast in telling me how much he loves me; that he'll do whatever it takes to get through this; that I'm his world; that he never loved her (******, I don't know if he even really LIKED her that much, from some of the things he's said about her); that he regrets it all immensely; that he's so sorry, and so forth.

In short, he’s done all the “right” things and yet … and yet … I am still so confused. My love for him has taken such a hammering and I just don’t know if I can trust him or love him as I did before. It’s been easily the worst experience of my life. It’s been such a help for me reading these boards just knowing that it’s not crazy that I’m still so wrecked by this 7 months on. I’m getting better bit by bit but it’s still SO hard some days.

We’ve read all the books. I know all the recovery advice. The problem is that I still just don’t know if it’s really what I want and I’m still so hurt by it all. I still feel like my world has been turned upside down. Previous to all this I would have said our marriage was absolutely wonderful; that he was the best husband in the world; that I loved him to the ends of the earth; that we’d grow old together. Now … I just don’t know. I am considering taking a sublet for awhile to give myself some time to work through things and just have space from it all for awhile. Is this a big mistake or very rational under the circumstances. Thoughts?

I read one post where someone said that the Harleys recommend that if it’s a young marriage, no kids, sometimes it’s best just to divorce. Can anyone expand on that or point me to information?

Anyway, just waving hello. Any help much appreciated.

Lilly

Welcome to Marriage Builders, Lillian. Although I'm sorry for the circumstance that has brought you here.

Since your WH is so willing to rebuild a new marriage with you, why don't you bring him here?

Jo

I've pointed him to posts here and suggested several times that it might also help him to be reading. And I do think it really would. For one thing, he feels like he is a horrible, worthless person because of what happened. (We both recognise that his pre-existing low self-esteem is a big part of what made him so vulnerable to the worshipful attentions of a STUPID young girl. She was 25 when it started - yuck.) I keep telling him that having an affair does not make him uniquely horrible; that lots of people do it (apparently). But I'm not sure he believes it. So far he has read the posts I've pointed him too but he hasn't seemed that keen to be more active about reading/posting, unfortunately.

Oh, and THANKS for the welcome Jo! You people have really helped keep me sane these last few horrible months.

Hi Lilian.

Reading your post, it seams everything is going on ok.. I also heard that sometimes the BS just realises they can't live wtihout that full trust they had before, only you can find your answer.

Being my self in such a situation, I have to believe that with time we will get there, to full trust.

Just one thing not mentioned in your post that migh be a "key"to give you reassurance...

I know it's not an easy subject but did you ever discussed the "WHY" he did it???

According do dr, Harleys it's really important to understand the why as to prevent it from happening in the future.

Might feel in your doubts about staying in this marriage or not?

Thanks LW. We did discuss it pretty intensively at first. As I mentioned, I think a lot of it had to do with his low self-esteem. She was adoring and "showed him this person he wanted to be" and that was pretty irresistable to someone like him. Of course this doesn't excuse it, but it does help that he understands and has examined WHY. There are more ins and outs of it all than that, but in short, yes, I do feel like we've discussed it. We've also discussed a lot what was lacking with us that contributed and I feel I'm accepted responsibility for my part in all that.

Some days I do feel very understanding of why and how it happened. Other days I just can't seem to forgive him for letting it all go on so long. He says that after a couple of weeks he was wishing it was over. That he "felt trapped". That he was a coward and didn't know how to end it etc.

Still, 9 months is a long time from the first encounter to take to tell the OP that you can't do it anymore. And of course, stupid, because it only got harder the more attached she got. Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't more that it had just run its course and that she was becomming more clingy and therefore the appeal was outweighed by the stress. I don't know. I know he certainly SEEMED stressed a lot during those months. But of course, since I thought he was "working late" a lot I attributed it to job stress. It's maddening to remember that during that time I was feeling so sorry for him working so hard ("Oh my poor baby") and often doing his share of the household chores so he wouldn't have to when he got home late, again. It's also maddening to remember how I was lovingly making him lunch every day to save him time. Lunch that he actually ate with her over a one-hour lunch break each day, rather than the hurried sandwich-at-desk picture that he'd painted.

There are so many painful details like that. (One of the email exchanges I found was written the day after I'd thrown him a surprise birthday party. From that I'm guessing he was with her that day and was late home the night of the party because he was with her. Grrr.)

I know he wants to rebuild our marriage and perhaps I should be more grateful than that. But sometimes I just look at him and think "You cheated on me for MONTHS. You lied to me for OVER A YEAR. Don't I deserve better?"

Sometimes it just all seems too much and too hard. I love him, I really do, but it's not the same as it was. How could it be?

I totally understand what you are feeling. I had six years of things like that to play back. I'm trying to get past that now. As for how could your love be the same...I think it is important to know that so many people have come out on the other side with much stronger, happier marriages. Even though you do not have kids, I think you should do all you can to save your marriage b/c if it doesn't work out atleast you know you tried. Reading your post made me think of a song I heard years ago that was about a couple at some milestone anniversary realizing what they would have missed if they'd given up early on....their kids, grandkids, etc. I'm not saying it will be easy but it could still be well worth it. Only you can decide that. I'm sorry for your pain but glad you've come to the right place.

M27, I see what you're saying, I do. I guess that's why I didn't walk out the door the night I found out. Like many people, if you had asked me what I'd do if he had an affair prior to DD -- when such a thing would have seemed impossible -- I'm sure I would have said, "Well, I'd be devastated, but of course I'd leave him." Of course, like so many others I discovered it's just not that black and white when you have a long history.

Still, sometimes I wonder if I'm just pushing a rock up hill. I can fully understand why those with kids and mortgages would stay, why it would seem worth trying. But in my case I think, I'm still young, I could meet someone else. Why stay with someone who would mistreat and deceive me so? I love him, yes. But a lot of my love was based on a "reality" that didn't exist. And beyond meeting someone else, sometimes I just think I could be out leading my own life, spending time with friends and having fun instead of mired in this nightmare that I didn't have any part in choosing. It kills me that someone I've never even spoken to has F-ed up my life so badly.

Now, had it been a drunken ONS I would have been hurt and mad but I never would have considered ending the M over it, especially if he'd come clean. I would have chalked it up to lust and temporary insanity. But the fact that he sat down with her at a bar a week after they'd first had sex and talked about how they were "ok" with "just seeing where it went" (where was it going to go? hello? you're MARRIED. It ain't gonna go anywhere GOOD!) The fact that he went to great lenghts to hide it from me. that he lied to me over and over for more than a year. it's just so hard to get over. And because it went on for so long it infected so much. My birthday, his birthday, Christmas, our anniversary, Valentine's Day. It's so hard to know he was with her, calling or texting her on all those dates. We had lovely romantic weekends away during that time. Was he hiding in the bathroom with his phone after we'd had sex texting her? Probably. All those details just kill me. And it's screwed up so much - not just our relationship, but his job situation, his relationship with all our mutual friends who now feel uncomfortable around him. My best friend doesn't even want to be in the same room with him. It's all such a mess and I HATE it all.

Sometimes I love him dearly, still, and desperately want to make it work. Other times I just want OUT of this horrible life. I want my old life back. I didn't deserve this. I was a loving, affectionate, devoted partner. It just SUCKS.

Thanks for letting me vent ...

Lillian,

Greetings and Salutations! You're definately at the right place to find support and to draw on the experiences of others. I certainly feel your pain and anguish. I'm in a similar situation to March.

I just wanted to touch briefly on one of your questions. You asked, Many a BS has asked that and many a BS has gone on to have a more meaningful and stronger marriage than they had before.

Think back to why the two of you fell in love in the first place. The feelings, the excitement, the new car smell. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />He brought value to your life. From the sound of it, he still does, just not as much as before. Maybe the question you should ask yourself is, "Can this person bring to my life the value that he once brought and if he can am I willing to give him that chance?"

Just food for thought. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are right, Lillian77, it does suck and I can understand why you just want to throw the towel in. My FWH's first ONS apparently happened before we had kids. He didn't tell me then b/c he felt like I'd leave b/c we didn't have children (we had been married 7 years though). Of course I wish he had b/c then it hopefuly wouldn't have happened three more times but would I have stopped then. We'll never know but I can tell you still knowing what I know now about what has transpired the last 6 years I'm still glad I was and am with him. These mistakes do not define all of him or erase away the good. I know the circumstances are different re: the type of A but betrayal is betrayal. Even though you are young and don't have kids I would still do the work or you'll never know what could have been. I would not trade all the good times and my two beautiful, smart children for the world. I'm with Drexxell's food for thought.

I would be a bit concerned. He didn't only have a fairly long affair, but also "dated" two women while married to you, and registered at an escort service. To me, this is more of a pattern, than a one time mistake.

Think very carefully before you have children with this man.

I do agree with believer...you don't want to have an opps pregnancy for sure. The MC should be done and if that doesn't happen or work, I would think IC will be important to help with you with future relationships.

I agree with Believer. This guy has cheated on you for what essentially amounts to your entire relationship. When you include the escorts sites, missing money, porn usage, "dating", and the recent PA/EA....what other conclusion can you draw?

Redemption is possible for everyone. But it's a difficult road. So yeah, a serial cheater can change...but when he's consistantly selected 'the path of least resistance', you'll need proof that he's accomplished the task at hand before you can trust him.

Personally, I wouldn't commit to rebuilding the marriage until a trained professional had diagnosed and treated this guy successfully.

That's just me though....and I'm a tough sell. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Whatever you decide....do get tested for STDs. Your fertility could be at stake, (your life too for that matter).

Thanks for the replies guys ... much appreciated and please keep it coming. I do have wonderful friends who have been endlessly supportive about listening but after 7 months I've started to feel like I don't want to exhaust them with it and I really need a place I can vent and work through this stuff and get some support.

LadyJane, believe me, one of the first things I did after discovering all this - well, after I picked myself up off the floor - was to go and get tested for STDs. And even though he swears the last time he and OW had sex was the end of 05 and that they always used condoms, I still plan to get re-tested again. Much better safe than sorry.

Believer, thanks for your input. I do appreciate the forthrightness of you both. I don't want to sound like I'm justifying, but just to clarify: the "dating" was before we were married but when we'd been together 3 years and were engaged. Now, at this time we were apart for a whole year (as in we didn't see each other once). Long story short, we were moving to a different country and I went ahead to start a job. We thought it would be just a couple months we were apart but one thing after another happened to delay it that we had no control over (mainly visa issues - we're different nationalities and there were major delays after 9/11 - and also he broke his arm and was out of work awhile etc). He was stuck in a small country town and bored and lonely. Had he been open about seeing people during this time I wouldn't have been thrilled but I would have understood MUCH more than I do about the PA while living together and married. What bothers me is that he didn't tell me about them, nor them about me, and that he may still be lying about the extent of it. Another giveaway that more happened than he admits is that the first several months we were apart we were talking every day and it was all "I love you, miss you so much, can't wait to get married etc". Then one day he calls and says he's changed his mind about coming and getting married. I remember the first thing I said was, 'Have you met someone else?', because it seemed SO out of the blue, but he denied it. Now he says that it was just that he was "confused about having those feelings or someone else" but still swears nothing ever happened. Hands up who else finds this far-fetched? Obviously he changed his mind back pretty quick, but it was very upsetting at the time.

So, again, it doesn't make me that mad he saw people during that time per se, it's the lying that gets me. It was a lonely year for me too and, believe me, I had plenty of chances to date/sleep with other men but I didn't because we had an agreement we wouldn't. Yes, it was rough, but I never contemplated cheating or lying.

As for the rest ... I should add that my husband was sexually abused as a child. The reason the porn stuff all came out was that when we read "Infidelity, a Survival Guide" he really saw himself in the section on sex addiction and it was like a damn had burst and he starting telling me all this stuff very honestly and openly and reflectively. I have to give him credit here for finally being really honest with me about it all and for really confronting it. Also, he did get into IC almost immediately and has been open with the therapist it all. (We're also in MC.) He's also read a couple other books on SA and been talking to me about it. So, although it's been a huge double whammy, it helps that it's clear he's facing this stuff finally. Stuff he'd never dealt with or confronted or talked about with anyone ever before. And he says, and seems sincere, that regardless of what happens with us he really, really wants to change.

Obviously the problem for me is do I hang in there and hope he really can do the work to change? Do I take the risk that down the track it'll all start again? Or that I'll find out that, yes, he was and is sleeping with hookers. Or I am pregnant or have small kids and another OW comes along.

One weird and almost creepy part is that a big part of how he and OW bonded was talking about their childhood abuse. Apparently she started telling him all about hers before they even slept together. Of course, this begs the question, why on earth was she getting that support from a married coworker instead of a girlfriend or family member? Like I said, kind of creepy. But a few things I know about her now are creepy/icky.

If there's anyone here who's had experience with SA partners I would REALLY appreciate your input on this one.

Thanks again you guys. I'm most grateful for the support and ear(s).

Lil

My H has SA with sexual abuse in his childhood as well. One greater poster for this is AskMe. You might want to post with his name in the subject line. He's helped me a lot.