I have a question.....the XOM did not meet any of EN's, so why did this A begin? I became a completely different person when the the A started.

The only thing I can think of is my desire for admiration and to be told, "you are so hot, and sexy....". I just turned 39 so I admit to having a hard time seeing those new wrinkles and crease lines!

Maybe my A was all about knowing I could still "get what I want" if I wanted to? Does this make sense?

Any suggestions or thoughts?

I think he met your need for admiration. That is a very powerful EN.

Hi ML - how are you? Thank you for posting.

But he also degraded me, which would be the complete opposite of admiration! I have never let anyone do that to me. I have always been considered by others "very" STRONG person. My therapist says, "I bet he's done this before...these people have a way to pull you into their darkness..." I'm just not sure how I came to that place where I could let someone else degrade me.

Something interesting last night, H told me he wants to tell me a lot and think of telling me a lot how pretty I am , how pretty my hair looks, etc., but for some reason he is unable to verbalize it! What is that all about?

Any thoughts on this would be very welcome. H and I seem to be at a stand-still with our recovery.

I am doing my best to be patient.

We're all going on vacation next week. Should I bring up anything about the A or wait until he asks???

Please help me.

Set ground rules for vacation. No talk of A or R. The point is to have a good time. You can fight and argue at home for free. No point spending thousands of $$$ to do it. WW and I went on holiday for 8 days 2 weeks into discovery. Had a blast. It was good for us. Don't blow the vacation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

D - Thanks. We're actually doing GREAT. I found myself in love with him all over again. I notice sometimes, when I'm looking at him (when he doesn't realize it) I feel little butterflies and say to myself, "He is so handsome!". I tell him too - I don't always keep it to myself.

We have never been a couple to fight.

We are both very much looking forward to this vacation just wasn't sure if we should talk about it or not.

Thank you!

God Bless!

In regards to your H not being able to verbalize how he feels about you, I am somewhat in the same place with my WW. I have always thought her beautiful, sexy, gorgeous, but don't express my thoughts enough, and when I do it seldom "hits the mark" and gives her any good feelings or belief that I am sincere. My advice as a man, is to tell your H different ways you would appreciate hearing his compliments of you. Be specific, but don't refer to the OM at all (even if you quote a phrase that he has said to you) because it does a man no good to feel compared, especially to someone you have cheated on him with. But he does need specific examples, good and bad, so he can have the tools to practice. Be patient with his early attempts, and allow him to gain confidence. (One negative example from my life: recently I was kissing my wife, and she immediately comments that I need to work on my kissing techniques! Not a great time to point out someone's faults....) Expect nothing from your H for now, but accept freely his efforts and encourage him for doing/saying anything close to right. He will gain confidence and be more willing to learn better ways of meeting your needs. Give it time, nothing great is accomplished immediately.

1WH - Thank you for taking the time to post to me.

I just got finished reading your story. I am so sorry.

My H has always had "communication" problems. However, since my A was revealed he's trying. Spends more time with me in the evenings and tells me all the time he loves me. I tell him all the time as well.

What's strange.....I think our M is going to be so much stronger and better than it was before. That just blows my mind away to be able to even write that.

You are right when you say nothing great is accomplished immediately!

Take it easy and I'll be praying for you.

I think your therapist is exactly right. The reason that such a strong person like you was willing to tolerate such degradation was because you were entranced by the feeling you got when he initially met your need for admiration. It was intoxicating and you sought a repeat. It was a like a drug that induced you. Drug addicts and alcholics are perfectly willing to endure all manner of humiliation to just get that FEELING again. It never comes, but they keep trying until they completely burn out!

ML - YOU HIT IT ON THE HEAD EXACTLY....

So I am working on putting hedges around my H and family. Is the the next, appropriate step.

I want to continue working on this, everyday....

I never want to be in that situation EVERY AGAIN.

hey SC....

howyadoin....

just thot id say hi.....

YOU know the answer to your own question already.....it was a weakness, like an alcoholics need for a drink....our lives get boring, we get in a rut....day to day, and then all of a sudden someone comes along and strokeour EGO...

and all of a sudden..."wow, i still GOT it"...

but that person hasnt seen you naked, that person hasnt seen you in the morning when you have BAD breath and messed up hair....that person hasnt seen you after a hard day with STINKY feet, hasnt followed after you in the bathroom....(yes...everyone poops!!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />...etc....

its all new, exciting and "un-real"....

thats why your EN where not being met by your H at this time....we all get complacent.....

complacentcy KILLS!!!

good to hear from ya.....

hang in there!!

S&C,

Don't you see your need for admiration means you will accept degrading as well? In the first part it is something you want and in the second part it is something you believe.

You know I guess I will never understand women. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They worry about a few lines, wrinkles, etc, and yet men find them attractive, part of life. Your H does not see you as just some skin. I looks into your eyes and sees your soul. He feels your touch and wants you, and that my dear will NOT change no matter how OLD he gets or you get.

What your H needs from you will never get old don't you see that?

I know us guys are supposed to be clueless about many things, including relationships, but it never ceases to amaze me how women can think their only value to their H is their skin. I just don't get that. Oh, I guess I am just too old or something. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for your other questions.

You asked
Short answer, he is scared to death. He doesn't want to be rejected. More importantly he does not want his praise rejected or her "Oh you are just saying that to get me in bed." He does not want it rejected with "Yeah right."

He knows you have completely rejected him with your affair and he has no real idea where he stands.

My suggestion...if he compliments you, smile, say "thank you very much, I like to hear that", and give him a kiss and a hug.

Women really don't understand how men take rejection. They don't understand what it takes to ask someone out and hear, "I'm busy", or just "no". Further, men are bombarded with negative messages about how women feel about them. Depending on your H he may have internalized alot over his life, and it makes him reticent to speak his mind about his feelings for you.

You need to let him know in someway that he is safe to speak his mind to you about things he is very emotional about. I think you are missing the point that he swallowed a lot of pride in accepting your affair and trying to make the marriage work. He does not want to feel weaker than he does now.

Now if anything I have said is true or makes sense to you, then you see the issues. They can be overcome, but remember he very likely feels a large part of your A was his fault. He may know different intellectually, but emotionally...no he doesn't.

This is part of the healing S&C. It is part of YOU learning about your H and using that knowledge productively.

Look forward to your thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Sturgis - I am so glad that you posted to me!!!! I've been thinking about you and hoping you are doing well.

I think I found a new friend!

I understand about the admiration, but the fact that the OM was down right cruel and made comments like "You are a distraction"....If anyone had ever said that to me I would have never spoken to them again. When I say I am a strong person - I mean STRONG. However, I am beginning to notice that I appear stronger on the outside than on the inside. Sometimes I feel like a scared little girl. Hmmm - not sure where that comes from or maybe I do but am afraid to admit it to myself.

I just don't understand how I got to the point I did. I was basically begging to see the OM. I hit bottom, I guess you can say - had zero morals, zero self-respect or dignity. Cried ALL THE TIME. Hated looking in the mirror.

I have a lot to work to do on ME. But H has been awesome. We're going to make it!

We'll be on vacation next week, but look forward to talking with you when I get back.

JL - You are so right. Everything to say.

I do want to point out one thing....my H has ALWAYS had communication issues. Keeps everything inside. I notice now AFTER the A - he's more open but still can't give me 100%. That's ok because we're actually communicating better now than we EVER have before. This is how I know we're going to come out of this so much stronger than before.

As far as me being vain. I never considered myself that way, but I guess I am. I was always the prettiest one in the office (with that got lots of attention) and now I''m not the youngest/hottest anymore. I have to deal with getting older, the wrinkles, bags, saggy boobs (sorry guys!)

I am trying to look at it like it's a new chapter in my life. I'm a mom now and my priorities have changed.

How are you doing JL????? By the way, your advice is AWESOME.

S&C,

You stated
That was my point. The A did not help in this regard but the issues may well have developed or been internalized long before you met him. However, I think the cure is the same. Accept his compliments, thank him for them, and BELIEVE HIM. He needs to know you will believe what he says.

Consider this from your current situation. Do you want your H to trust you? If so why? He does not have to trust you to love you or be married to you does he? But, if he trusted what you say, YOU will feel valued, accepted, and respected.

Women don't get it with regard to men in this situation. If you listen to your friends or watch their interactions with men, you will see that when a man says something positive more often or not, the response is in essence a rejection, EVEN IF the lady likes the positive comment. Do you see what I am driving at? You need to train him that when he says something positive to you, he gets a positive response back from you. Now before you can train him, you have to train yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> No free lunch is there S&C. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Ok, how am I going to say this without getting too personal? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> You deal with these things by trusting your H. You have him touch you, ON those wrinkles and bags. Men are not only very visual, but tactile as well. Your soft skin and response to his touch will more than overcome any issues with wrinkles. About the saggy boobs <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />, without being graphic, do they like his attention? If they did and still do, they have NOT changed as far as he is concerned.

It may come as a surprise to you that most men don't like the plastic women often seen in the media of all kinds. Oddly, as men mature, they really do appreciate a mature womans body.

There is something else that is on your side. It has to do with a saying that is mentioned from time to time. "Women marry men planning to change them, men marry women expecting they won't change."

Now this saying seems to support your view of wrinkles and such. But, in reality, in my mind my W of 30 years has NOT changed abit. I see her in my mind as she was when we married. Yes, she has had three children, yup, she is in her 50's, but she has not aged in my mind. Men don't age women in their minds, women do that for them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Your attitude, your sense of self, your enjoyment of your H, and your family will more than overcome any aging girl. You should know this. Yes, he sees things changing, yup he is aware of alot of things, but in his mind they don't change his view of you.

Hence my comment about the boob issue. You really have no idea, but you could if you will really ask him what he sees in his mind when you two are alone and together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You just might be surprised. Do you know how I know? He stayed with you S&C, and he did not just do it for the kids. He did it because you still have his heart and his mind.

Talk to the man, you just might learn some very surprising things.


Wrong! You are a mom but your priorities should have expanded not changed. Your H should still be #1, you should still be a W, a friend, and a sex partner with your H. You are a Mom to your children. Do you see what I am driving at? Don't ever forget he still sees you and wants to see you as that sweet young thing he married who he still craves.



I'm doing fine, and thank you for the compliment. Just remember it is just advice. You have to think and collect the data yourself, so that you can make good decisions.

Oh, one final comment. People on this site have for years worried about this one point. I bothers them that the A seems to have made their marriages better. While they like the improvement, that A bothers them and yet it seems to have made the marriage better. My answer is that the A did not make it better, it was the response of the spouses to it. Recovery from an A means people talk about things they have been reluctant to speak about before. After talking about the details of an A, what could be more embarassing? So why not talk about other things. You have noted your H seems more open...he has had to be to express to you his feelings about things.

Use this opportunity to really learn about him. Encourage by your kindness and willingness to listen and not judge, and you will find him opening up more and more, and telling you things he should have years ago. If you respect what he says (even if you don't agree with some of it), and he respects what you say, your marriage is going to be better than it ever has.

You are learning your marriage had a lot less to do with your appearance, or what OTHER people think/thought of you, than it does what your H thinks of you and what is inside of you.

Does this make sense? I hope so. have a good vacation.

God Bless,

JL

JL - I am going to be leaving work soon. Your posts are amazing, they really are. You point of view always gets me thinking.

I am going to respond when I get home so I don't have to rush.

Thank you, again, for being you and offering your advice.

Can't wait to chat later.

S&C...

Hey girl...I'm really glad to see you around...Enjoy your vacation, I think it will do wonders for your recovery...

JL...WOW...what a great post...I REALLY needed to hear that perspective...I'm 36, and S&C, I can relate about the attention getting stuff...that really does make getting older harder to deal with...almost like for so many years you were valued for your looks...sure people knew that you were intelligent too, but that's not what got the most lip service...I really hear and feel you on this S&C...

Sorry to threadjack, I am hoping that it is a question pertinent to S&C as well, but JL, when my husband gives me compliments, how do I get passed the tendency to believe that he's just saying that because he's my husband and he "has to"...kinda like your mama always thinks you're beautiful and smart cause she's your mama...how do you make yourself KNOW that he really means it? Is that an unanswerable question? I don't know...could be I'm just rambling...sorry guys...

Mrs. W

Mrs. W. - I miss you! I'll chat with you later, when I get home.

I'm outta here!!!!

Mrs. W,

Your Mama, did not have a choice did she? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Further, consider child birth and the response of women and men. To my W, all of the kids were beautiful at the moment of birth. I have my theories why that is, and it has to do with "finally it is over" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But, most men will tell you that the kids looked like Winston Churchill on a bad day, or a drowned rat.

But, here is the point. You H does not have to tell you anything. He chose you for his mate and it was a choice. Not like Mama who gets what she gets. I am not disparaging mothers here, I have one and she still thinks I am good looking and I am in my 60's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> There are a few here who have met me in person, and they can truely believe that I have not been getting any calls from Hollywood. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Don't you find it ironic that as you say you feel

Other people could be giving you compliments to butter you up. I have seen women in social functions gush of another lady's dress, and that lady is all puffed up, only to hear these same women later go "can you believe she wore THAT dress?" Outside people have more to gain by complimenting you. Your H can show you by actions that you are loved by him, and yet he does tell you what he thinks.

As I mentioned to S&C, not accepting a compliment is like calling someone a liar. Of all of the people that would not lie to you it is your H. You show him great disrespect when you feel it is like "mom" telling me I am good looking.

I think your question should be reframed to be "what evidence do I have that he does NOT mean all of those compliments and MAY want to get a little action tonight as well" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />?

The question is not unanswerable, the answer has no meaning because it is not the right question. Do you see what I mean? It is very likely he compliments you because he sees things in you, that you don't see. He sees you in a frame of reference that a mirror cannot reflect. He appreciates you in ways you really don't and won't ever fathom. He wants you to feel good and happy about yourself, because he like most men ENJOY it when their W's are happy.

He has many reasons to compliment you, but very very few to lie to you. More importantly if you want the compliment to really mean something to you, respond as I suggested to S&C, and then say "sometime you are going to have to explain to me what you see or feel that makes say what you did." Then smile and thank him again while telling him you enjoy his compliments.

By the way, you are not unique. Most people respond to compliments in that fashion.

I must tell you a slightly orthogonal story but I think you will see my purpose in a moment. I had a relative that was widowed and very well off. Another relative a sibling of the first made ends meet but not much better. Well the first relative was nearing the end of their life and offered to give the sibling a rather large sum of money.

I was very close to both and the recipient of the gift was really really bothered by this gift. We talked for a long time and finally I explained that it was a "gift" by the second sibling to accept the gift. She seemed confused.

I explained the reality of the first persons life and some of the problems that person had caused in many other peoples lives. I explained that this person NEEDED to make this gift to at least in small measure attone for their behavior. I explained to the recipient, that her GIFT to the giver was to accept the gift, because it must be accepted for the first one to feel that at least somethings were made right.

People often seem to have a harder time receiving gifts than giving them. Yet, the gift has no meaning if it is not accepted. So the recipient has a major role to play in this and that is to accept the gift and allow the giver the joy of a well received gift.

Now consider your H's compliments. He offers them to you not just for you, but for himself. He NEEDS to express to you the things on his mind and heart, and compliments are part of that. You NEED to accept and revere these gifts Mrs. W. It shows respect and it helps your H.

Does this make sense? I hope so.

God Bless,

JL

JL...

Thank you so much for taking the time to so thoughtfully answer my question...I have been working hard to learn to accept compliments for a while now...it's long been an issue for me(and I know it is for others too) and it is something that I have addressed in IC...Your answer makes a lot of sense to me and I do not wish to further disrespect Mr. W...Lord knows I've done that far too often and in far too many ways...I will do what you suggested...

I will also tell you that posting here at MB has helped me understand my husband more fully...things that he might *forget* to tell me, or things that we might not ever have talked about have come out in some of his posts to others...I can't express how much additional respect and admiration that I've gained for him by getting to know how he feels about certain issues(a particular post of his regarding how he feels that porn degrades women comes to mind)...I always make certain that I tell him when I am positively affected by something that he says here...I will honor him by accepting his compliments from now on...Perhaps when I have become more practiced at accepting them I will be more able to fully internalize them...I do know that there is no try <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...I will DO this...Thank you again JL...

Mrs. W