I think that H has no contact now and not since January. He has already gone through withdrawl which made him start drinking again. He stopped drinking (about a beer or two a night) last year after the doctors told him his heart was not working properly. I don't know if the drinking( although not much, maybe a drink every two or three days) is preventing the recovery. I really don't think that he feels that it was that big of a deal to have an SA. Also I think he feels it was good for us as it solved his problems with our marriage. All it did for me was to intensify the bad feelings I have about him regarding his love for me and make me focus more on his needs.

to 193296 I am in the same boat- Constantly rminded out what he wasn't getting, BUT that was not the reason for the affair I am sure of it.

I too would like to know why the whole thing happend?

The $64,000 question. Why?

I know the general why. It is because sin is in this world and my h couldn't resist the temptation and there was and still is some problem within him, he didn't want to face or deal with.

The specific why is what I feel I need to know. Why did my h cheat at that time? We were in the same m, I didn't cheat, so why did he. I think the WS sometimes don't even know why and they have to do some intense self-examination to find out why. Without that we will never know, because they will never know.

Ann

cfc,

Thank you. No I have made no progress in my relationship. I have cut and pasted a letter from resilient regarding needing to know. It is awesome you should read it and share it with you H. It hit the nail right on the head. I have not shown it to my W yet.

I can tell you it has been almost 2 and a half years since D Day and I am finding that without radical honesty I we are going nowhere.

Trust me when I tell you it is just the calm before the storm on a regular basis if you do not start as soon as possible on recovery.

I have told my WW we can stop talking about the A when I have heard the story a few times with the details remaining the same. She keeps telling me it is hard to remember everything. I told her it is harder to remember lies then the truth. Mark Twain said an honest man doesn't need a good memory.

My WW actually broached the subject of going back to visit her family where the A took place and told me at some point I have to trust her. I can't remember her earning my trust but I guess that doesn't matter.

He sounds a lot like my WW in that in order to get my basic needs met I need to never speak about the A again. Every time I bring it up I have ruined everything. She with holds sex when we discuss the A and tells me she needs to feel emotionally attached to have sex with me but there was no emotional attachment to OM. I have stopped playing the game.

We have my mom watching our kids this weekend so I am not going to bring anything up until after this weekend then I am going to give her the opportunity to be radically honest and start depositing into my LB or I am going to have to make the toughest decesion I have ever made. The reason I am waiting until after this weekend is that if I say anything now she will tell me to cancel the weekend.

cfc,

here is the link to the letter I was talking about.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=1#3003361

actually called Josephs letter.

thanks for this letter! I like this part "It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

yearsofhurt thanks for the response!

Why in the world can they not see past their noses when it comes to the idea that someone is loving them more than anything that they will ever feel. Forget emotional needs for a moment and think this is unconditional love at its finest- You have hurt me and I am ready to turn the other cheek and say I forgive you. I have never been as religious as I was raised, but I look to the bible for the wisdom that seems to hold the answers: "As we forgive those who trespass against us." I want to forgive, but they make it so hard to forget.

Quote:
______________
Now that we have passed this milestone- what is next? I feel like I don't want to continue! i am not sure why. I wanted him sooo much before and now there is nothing. Has anyone else felt like this?
____________

cfc

That letter (I re-wrote in according to us) helped my H to try to come clean. Well... mostly helped him understand I was not dwelling in the past, and helped him realize the need to know.

So he asked me for some time to think about it.

It took him way too long (a few days) and when we finally talked... I was already giving up on him... actually that was when my anger stage begun (2 months ago or so), I am still there. All in all, he says he's being radically honest, but it took him to long for me to believe him now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He says he told me everything that is, but he still doesn't know WHY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

By anger stage I mean, I realized I would probably be better off without him, hatred feelings growing each day... etc.

I am now trying hard to fight this feelings.

If you come to this feelings... don't let them grow.

I came to another realization that probably works toward resoloving the issue.

Divorce. My FWW has admitted to me that if I ever treated her that way she would divorce me. I don't know if that is the truth or not but that is what she believes. So I know it is hard for her because of her belief that she would never get over it. I have always believed that what you believe is the truth. The way you deal with a situation is based on what you believe the final outcome will be. Her final outcome is divorce.

The other point is who was in control of the relationship before the A. My FWW for the most part was in control. Now that I am asking her to do something she doesn't want to do she feels like she is not in control. In the past if she told me to drop an issue or to leave it alone I did. I am sure it is a shock to the system that now when she says drop it or leave it alone I don't. I told her I am your equal and you have no right to tell me what my feelings are.

Now on to last night. I used the letter. Guess what. It worked. It was horribly difficult for me to maintain my calm but I did it. She of course became hostile and tried to start a fight to end the conversation. I did not allow this to happen. I stayed on track.

I told her I was coming to this site. She attacked the site of course and said we are probably all a bunch of bitter people. I explained that it is not just the B's here but also the A's and we lean on each other for guidance toward recovery not punishment. I told her all of the success stories I have read start with Radical Honesty. If she would like to be a success story then Radical Honesty is necessary.

She of course said that it happened so long ago two and a half years ago it shouldn't matter now. I told her she has no right to have a secret life or to lie to me through ommision. Just because you decided not to be honest with me two and a half years ago does not mean I do not expect honesty from you now.

Here is the big kicker and I hope this helps. THE DETAILS WERE NOT AS BAD AS I IMAGINED!!!!!! She was angry at one point and said that she did not see how rehashing the past is helping. I told her what I thought happened on one of the occasions and she said well see you must think the worst of me. I said I put a puzzle together without the information what did you expect for me to do. There are a full spectrum of things you could have done based on everything else that happened did you think I wouldn't think the worst? If you want me to think the worst then don't be honest because I never thought you were capable of doing what you did now my truth is based on what I believe.

I told her if you love, value and respect me I wll do the same in return. I cannot and will not believe that someone that will not be radically honest actually loves, values, and respects me. If you don't how am I supposed to give you those things. So it is not about punishement in a way it also shows me what you think about me.

She called this morning and said she will continue answering any of my questions.

I wish I would have been more persistent two and a half years ago.

My mom is taking the kids this weekend and I was actually dreading it for the last 3 weeks. Now I want to spend time with her.

Yeah!!!!! years of hurt I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy for you. It takes a lot of guts to do what you did!!!

I like what you said about "Divorce. My FWW has admitted to me that if I ever treated her that way she would divorce me. I don't know if that is the truth or not but that is what she believes. So I know it is hard for her because of her belief that she would never get over it." My H has repetitively said the same thing. In fact this confused him more than anything. Isn't it strange that what is going through their head is, "My spouse is not meeting my needs, they must not love me..." and what we return is "I DO LOVE you, I will do anything for you to know this. Even if it means ripping my hair out day in and day out just to prove it to you. "

I once out of anger told my WH that if he was able to blatantly tell me he would not meet my needs, and punish me for the A (that he had)I would have to Divorce him. His response was I never wanted that. I wonder then why did you do what you did? What was your goal? Goal :Stay with wife and have fun behind her back while she watches my children 24/7 and I tell her that I don't love her. HMMM... that is not what was on my list of things to accomplish.


Sorry, I am having a bit of a anger today due to the fact H left work early without telling me. Now I have to wonder what has he been doing fo rthe past 2 hours??? I really don't think he is having an A, but the trust is not there.

Oh to answer your other Q about who was in control. I always thought that we were a team, but he felt I was controlling- hence the affair. I was in control. He says that he needs more freedom, I give him all the freedom in the world (basically said to him I will take all the responsibility for kids, bills, house, and our life). He says I did it because I was scared that he would leave. Then with his extra time, goes off with OW. Has all the freedom anyone could asked for with no disregard to my needs and then turns around an dtells me I never give him space. AGGGGH! this made me very frustrated. I feel I am giving my all and he is giving his to OW.

Hope you are ready for the weekend. I know it is hard, but do try to focus on good times together. Let her know what it is like to be with the man she married! I really think this will help her come around to see what she needs to do. I think making it easier for them makes it easier for us. I told h yesterday, I am not here to play games. When I say something it is what I mean at face value! Hopefully he gets the point as he loves to tell me how I feel about things. CFC, he says, you are not sick to your stomach, you are emotionally making yourself a mess. Meanwhile I get everyone in the house sick.

Good luck this weekend! Oh and by the way I think most of the spouses who are not coming here think we are nuts! Atleast that is the responses that I have read. They must feel threatened by support as they know they cannot say we are crazy when 50 other people on MB say that we are correct.

Question of the day:

How do you trust that your spouse is going where he says he is going ever again???

What do you think about WS changing plans at the last minute constantly?

Sorry to hear about that leaving work early.

Funny how things that never bothered you before now do.

Funny how a person who obviously does not deal with things in an appropriate manner (or the A would have never happened) now have a keen insight on the human condition and feelings. Yes I am sick to my stomach but I am not making myself a mess. There are things you can do or not do that will help me. If you want to help be considerate of those things. Leaving 2 hours early for work and not telling me is one of those things. So call me tell me where you are and where you are going and who you are with and I won't have these feelings. Not a complicated concept. Please do not tell me it shouldn't bother me. That will not help.

I hope things start going better for you. I know we have a long way to go but for the very first time I actually believe we have a chance.

I treated her so well yesterday I know she was suprised. She didn't feel well at work and had to go home. I came home got her in her PJ's rubbed her back, picked up the kids and gave her a big hug.

Thanks for listening. I hope you keep writing on this post, I feel knowing how someone else is making it through day to day helps. Especially from the male perspective. When I get to be to into the A and not focused on the recovery, I feel hopeless. Thanks for directing me back to the right road!

No problem. Now if we could just get them on the right road. I keep hearing people talking about putting GPS on their WW spouses car.

Sometimes I want to stick one on my FWW so she knows the right direction and road to take. LOL.

Then again she always tells me the right way to do things maybe I need the GPS.

Hi, I am feeling horrible. Yesterday was horrible! I think things are going in the right direction and then something comes up to put us back to square one.

Yesterday H arrives home after working his second job. His second job is something that a friend and him started to make some extra cash. The friend opened the business and basically H helps out. SO anyways he leaves work early without telling me to go do this job with his buddy (takes a vacation day). He accounted for all the hours, but I was rubbed the wrong way without him telling me. At least his motivation was in the right place- he was leaving early to finish his 2nd job so that he could be home for me to go to a Softball game. We have wanted to play Softball for years together. We finally were afforded the opportunity with a church. He then pulls a muscle and can't play. I decided I needed to start doing somethings to help me feel better and so have decided to continue playing.

Anyways, he came home in a bad mood says it was because I was asking him where his phone was when I called 3 times and he didn't answer. Also he says that he was angry that I asked why he left early and where he was between the job and 2nd job. Why do I have to feel guilty to ask quesetions about where he has been? I have been thinking about the Mark Twain quote years of hurt sent. An honest man doesn't have to have a good memory or something very close to that. H always complains he has a bad memory, but can quote other stats remarkably. So we have a little argument –pretty much I tried to respond casually and not respond to his anger.

Then we get in the car to go to our softball game and he says I signed up for a class today. It starts next week and goes 8 sessions. So what goes through my head is what about my sons baseball games that you are coaching? What about this softball team I just committed to? What about being home to take the kids when I do my work in the afternoon? I just opened a business and it takes a lot of my time. His response is that I am controlling and telling him what he can and cannot do. My response is couldn’t you have discussed this with me before you started this? Of course thoughts of the OW are swimming in my head.

I go to softball and he is steaming! I am an emotional train wreck.

After ball he doesn’t talk the whole ride home. I am thinking in my head how to make this work to show him that I support him. He says everything that he brings up like this I always turn into an issue. I think I do. I think I need to work on this and he needs to work on not springing things on me at the last minute. I feel that he makes decisions without regard to the rest of us. I mean my 6 year old is going to be sad when H stops coaching his team. And I am already stressed with the extra work from the business.

When we get home, I practically had to beg him to talk to me. I explain that instead of shutting down and bottling up his feeling we should talk to clear the air. He finally agrees and we talk. I say that I am sorry for coming to a rash decision and that I feel hurt by his actions. I told him I think that he should have called me to ask what I thought first because it affects all of us. Then I turn it over to him. Here comes the guilt trip about how unsupportive and horrible I am. How I am very controlling. I do my best to repeat what he is saying and agree with his point of view, because he has some valid points. Then I explain that I think that he at this point has given in to me. He said he resents me for dong this to him for years. I say I am sorry I never realized that you were giving in. I told him I was always telling him my point of view. I was hoping he would tell me his and we could agree to a solution. He has always just given in and been unhappy and now he resents me for it.

Two things- if I ever realized this, I would have tried to change things immediately! The thought that he has been miserable because he hasn’t gotten anything that he wanted for 10 years makes me sad. I feel probably as bad as the WSs who realize what they have done wrong. But this was his decision- agree instead of compromising to make me happy at his expense- great idea huh?

Second- now I need to fix this huge problem! And so does he, instead of just agreeing and becoming resentful, he will need to talk to me to say what he wants. Which is difficult for someone who refuses to tell their feelings.

So we try to talk things out, I feel we get to a solution and he is still very hostile- I will not live my life like this, I will not compromise, I will do everything that I want because I have no marriage with you… ugly word…. Nasty comment… some I don’t love yous… I resent you…. I don’t want to see you….


Then at 5:30 leaves for work when he isn’t suppose to be there until 6:45. Doesn’t answer any of my calls this morning until 7:00. Says he turned his phone off and doesn’t want it. Says he feels fine today.


Whoever has gotten this far-Thanks for reading. I was writing to get out all the sadness and anger I feel this morning. I wold love to know what you think. How will we ever make it to recovery with LBs going on????

How do I meet his needs when he relates his biggest need to be ultimate freedom- I think he wants a relationship with no responsibility to think of the other or communicate-please god let me be wrong!!!

He states his needs as Admiration, recreational companionship, and family commitment. I guess I am going back to read how to survive an A and HNHN again.

Yearsofhurt what would your spouse do to make you feel like you were in control??? Please be specific.

P.S. the road diverted down this ugly back alley and I need to find my way out again. Soemwhere around here there is a highway that I hope to get on as the side roads are very slow and jammed with traffic!

My FWW never made me feel in control. She always said I was in control but in reality I was not.

Now I wll let you know that there is a root issue that I had psuedo control over. One day she decided that she wanted to move 3,000 miles across the country so we could live where she grew up. I placed conditions on having the discussion of moving back. The first conditon I placed is that we needed $10,000 in our savings account. That would cover the cost of the move and leave some money in the account while I looked for a job. In the beginning everytime we had the discussion of moving she said I was making excuses etc. Over a 3 year period from when she brought up moving she spent over $20,000 on herself. So she could have saved that money if she really wanted to move.

I tell you that because there is no other aspect of our life I am in control of. That is the one issue I would not lose control of because I have two children and a wife that I have taken on the responsibiliy of supporting. From that point on any time she did not get her way I was controlling.
BTW she told me the resentment of my not moving back to where she wanted was part of the reason for the A.

Imagine now she had the A while visiting her home state and spent more time with the OM then any one of her family members. Which by the way was the reason for the trip in the first place.

Now in her mind I am controlling not because I am controlling but actually because I did not give into her one time.

I cleared that BS up right away. The other two points she made as to me being controlling never really control issues they were compromise issues. Just like moving back to her homestate. She said I was controlling because I would not let her get the coach and loveseat she wanted. BTW she wanted a tan or white coach and loveseat and we have two young boys. Even the lady at the furniture store told her that would be a big mistake. We compromised she got the syle I picked the color that would last. Five years later the couch looks great even though kids spilled stuff all over it. If it were white or tan it would have been destroyed long ago. The other issue was that I did not want our bedroom decorated in flower print.

She has bought furniture I did not even look at. She picked out our dining room table and told me just to pick it up. She upgraded her wedding ring without consulting me till it was done. She decided she wanted plastic surgery and bullied me into letting her. My fault for giving in.

If I was controlling none of these things would have happened.

Ok enough about me and on to you but there is a reason I told you that. I realize now that marriage is about compromise. You can not always have things your way this is not Burger King.

If he says you are controlling because you don't let him do everything he wants to do. In other words he wants to start a class that he did not tell you about or consult you about. Who is now going to be IN CONTROL of making sure the kids get to baseball, you go to softball etc. You are in control of that right!

So it is ok for you to be IN CONTROL of the responsibilities he has heaped on you when he made this decesion on his own. HMMMM.

Compromise does not equal control. Not getting what you want when it is self serving does not mean you have lost control.

Now here is what I did. When my wife came home and told me she resented me for being controlling I said fine. I have had to fix the previous financial problems your spending created. In other words I was IN CONTROL of the finances. I said you are now in control. Fix the mess you made. I have waited 2 years now for her to fix it. She could never figure out how to fix it. She always resented me when I told her we didn't have the money for something. Now I am starting to fix these things with the understanding that me being IN CONTROL of the finances is necessary.

Finally I have changed the word control to responsibility. I am not in control of the fincances I have accepted the responsibility. You have placed me in control when you gave me the responsibility. If you don't want me to control that Issue I am fine with that it just means less responsibility for me.

Now this might not be the case for you I don't know. You need to think about why you were IN CONTROL of these issues. If you were in control because you were responsible that is a good thing not a negative.

This is long don't think I answered all your questions.

Okay I need to keep copying this post from word because it take me soo long to write my computer shuts me off. I will try to respond again.

My reply was something like this:

Wow! you are reading my mind!!YOu definately answered my questions and more!

"Finally I have changed the word control to responsibility. I am not in control of the fincances I have accepted the responsibility. You have placed me in control when you gave me the responsibility. If you don't want me to control that Issue I am fine with that it just means less responsibility for me."

Yeah!!!- I told my spouse this too, BUt it is not just about the finances. It is about control in everything he gives me the responsibility of everything!! Kids, house, cars, ..... He helps out if I ask him to, BUt that is controlling-so I stopped asking. Instead I decided to do just as much work around here as he does and take the rest of the time to focus on my kids and new business.

When I give him control he just doesn't do it. Then my credit is ruined and things that need to get paid don't. # weeks ago I asked him to find out from work who his dental provider was, the closes dentist, and to make ann appointment for the whole family. He told me to tell him something that he could do to help. He hasn't done anything!!! I think he needs a reality check.

SO does your wife- I am glad you told her your limits about moving and the sofa- those need need need to be compromises! OOOOOH and the ring and surgery YUCK! If I were you, you might as well have ripped my heart out right there!!Kudos to you for comign through that!!

Would love to know more of your story!! When was d-day? how old are your kids? and how long have you been married?

My story is below: It is a long one! But aren;t they all??
I have to make light of things other wises I would be in a hole of pity!!

He said to me yesterday- do you think I like to come home to a house of dirty dishes?? My response was of course you don't and nor do I. (I think this is the reverse babble that they talk about).

Anyways you hit the nail on the head and said it better than I ever could. I think you said that control to them translates to them not getting their way. EXACTLY! WOW you must know my H!

Here is my story from the first post:

hi I am new to discussion boards and infidelity. I just need to know if anyone has gotten past the husband not wanting to work it out after an affair and then some love busters on my part. My husband says that he is tired of the love busters and is unwilling to try any more. He has tried for 10 years and is done. We have been married 10 years, have two kids 5 and 2 and a lot of stress including hospitalization of kids, loss of dogs, loss of house due to mold, loss of second house due to renters destruction, loss of his family due to unsupport of all of these issues, opening of a new business, and now the affair that went from nov to jan (this all happend in the past year and a half!!!- MUch Stress). please help or direct me to some where I can write a message and accept posts. I have three of dr, Harley's book and am trying to stop the pain but it just won't stop. recent love busters are related to me getting sick (because I teach 3 through 6 year olds) and having the stress of all the responsibliities in the house and with bills.

I have no idea how to start a new thread, but here is my situation. In Ocotber it was our 10 year anniversary. He gave me a ring and commented about the price- I was very hurt, becase I felt that he didn't care.I ask for the ring as a way for him to ask me to marry him again and profess his love to me- as he and I had a rushed decision to marry after two years courting. We needed the money that the military would give us if we were married to put me through college. We were planning on getting married the following year, but he had yet to propose except a proposal of getting married - not traditionally- more like a if you marry me then, ... and it would be best... I felt okay with the situation, He feels that it was quick and I felt it apporopriate. Anyways our marriage has been filled with love busters and not meeting of my emotional needs for years. I feel I meet his needs, but then withdraw from his love bank by using angry outbursts and disrepectful comments. To me these are not harsh because I come from a very vebal house that presents all their problems in a forceful way, they get solved and we move on. He comes from a family that bottles all of their emotions. Anyways, he is deeply hurt when we argue and never forgets it. I have stopped almost all except the occasional once a month outburst. Anyways I was not having any outbursts until I found out about the affair. Then I responded very calmly. I asked if he loved her and wanted to be with her? He said they were over having sexually relations before christmas and they were still tslking, but he would have to talk to her one more tiem to tell her it was over. He says he hasn't spoken with her since January, but of course I still fell that he is. I wish I would have found recovering after and affair book in January. Now we are three months down the road and do not have naything going in the right direction. We never have time together because we have two kids ages 2 and 5. He wants to spend the bulk of his time with them and says, "should I feel guilty for being with the kids?" I say no, but we need time to work things out. He says he is done trying to work things out. He has tried for ten years and I have done nothing. i feel this is not true, I if knew that i hurt him, I would have changed everything! I had no clue he was this unhappy as he didn't express his feelings to me. No he is being better, but now I have lost trust. yadda yadda yadda- a typical HELP what should I do now? I know that i need to stop having LB, but I feel talking about the books is causing him stress right now. Shoul dI try to meet his emotional need or is it worthless right now because he won't let me? Is there hope? or will I come out of this feeling resentment for my efforts and his desire to not try now.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2995555

and
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3000069


AS i read through them you can see the roller coaster I have been on!! Something i wrote in a fog. I think BS go through their own fog of what to do what to think how to respond.

By the way excuse the spelling sometimes I am writing at five in the morning or at the end of a loooong day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Would love to know what some others out there think???

Does control= responsibility?

how many of you have spouses who say you are controlling?

Is this because you are controlling or taking charge of responsibilities?

Ok I am 37 now my kids are 10 and 6. Two and a half years since D Day. Here is the link to my story.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2999976

Yes the control thing is funny. We got into the other day because she works 30 hours a week because she wanted to be home with the kids after school. She took the responsibily for my sons homework. Guess what he has 2 F's and a D for not turning in homework. She asked if I was mad at her. I said not at her I am upset with the situation. She said it is not my fault. I said I thought WE decided (she decided) that you would work until 1:30 so you could be home with the kids. You told me you would do homework with them. It didn't get done. If you do not want the responsibility let me know I will take it.

Guess what I am in control again. With control comes responsibility and guess what I am so lucky to have all of these responsibilities. I take the kids to school every day. They have not been late once this year. I watch the kids 2 to 3 nights a week while she goes to AA. I cook diner a few nights a week. I work 40 to 50 hours a week. I take my son to baseball practice. I take him to the games an hour early for practice with the team. I pay the bills. I work with the creditors. I am in charge of moving in two weeks. I have to figure out how to juggle the finances so we can get my son braces. I wonder why she thinks I am in control. I wish I could unload some of these responsiblities.

When the ****** do I have time for myself. I haven't golfed in a year because of all these responsibilites.

OH somebody please join my pity party I am serving cocktail weenies. LOL