I love cocktail weenies especially in BBQ sauce! Now you know you don't have time for for cocktail parties- you are too busy being controlling!!

It would be unfair to unload work on them! they can't handle the control that is why this torch was easily passed!! pass off the hard and except the easy. I have thought about going away for a week and leaving him with everything!!!- he would then live my life. I know I would come back to a disaster! But then again our life is a disaster right now anyway! I am saving your post to read for when H goes to bed again without talking to me. I can never sleep then.

I would like to know how to make them realize thier faults without controlling the situation- meaning I don't want to say here is the problem, I want to show it to them in a positive way. When I figure it out I will let you know!! I

definately want to live to be the best person i can be- I know I can do that well! Part of this means that I can't LB to change the situation. To my H relating my feelings to him even if I am calm and relaxed always turns into a LB for him. This is immature and unresonable, but he responds that I always have an issue- Well yeah you #$#!%$#% another women?!!! frustrated that I am stuck in traffic again! I would love to have a view of the highway!

He claims you are controling -

Two possibliities.

You are
or
You are not.

Often it means different things to different people. Especially it means different things to men, than women.

There is a lot going on here that is/was caused by the A.

Much of what he says sounds like history rewritten becase of his A feelings.

Much of what you worry about would not be a concern for you if not for the A.

My feeling is that you need out side counseling. I havn't read your story enough to know if you are seeking that, or if he refuses to to or just where you stand on it.

A third party can watch you interact, and offer solutions based on what is really happening, not on the perception of what is going on - which is different for you than it is for your H.

I think your marriage is one that can be healed, and be better than it ever was.

AS far as your question about control/responsibility.

Wanting control comes from lack of trust.
You desire a specific outcome, and do all that you can to produce that outcome.

It is better to use boundaries. The other peson has the freedom to do as they desire, but if they do X, you will do Y.

AS an example -
You could say something like this to him:

You are free to come and go as you please, I realize I can't CONTROL your actions, nor do I want to. However, I am not willing to stay with someone that won't take my feelings into account. So - if you don't want to let me know what's going on, where you are, we'll be getting a D.

I wouldn't want you to say it just like I did, you need to come up with what you need from him, and put it in your own words, but this is to show you the concept.

If you take this approach, you need to be consistant, and calm, but do what you say.

If you can't take a stand such as this, you may be in limbo for a long time.

You also have to know you can do what you say - to be ready for it. The WS can usually sense if you are telling the truth. Many have come back and reported (after recovery) "I knew I had run out of chances, and she would leave me if I didn't change, so I changed."

You have to be sure you can do what you say. So be careful not to make statements you are not willing to follow through with.

Consider reading Mars/Venus - it will help with understanding when he is really needing to be alone, and when it's a smoke screen for trying to get away with something.

I recommend counseling with the Harleys, but a good local counseler can help too. If your H isn't willing to go, that tells you this is a false recovery. If he is serious about recovery, he'll do what is necessarry for YOU to recover. If he is not willing, you don't really have anything except a WS who hasn't left yet.

The Harleys can also help you with a plan for recovery, which is what they are much better than average at doing.

Hope you have good days, and can still smile about things.

SS

Is everyone enjoying the coctail weenies? Serving Lemon Drops at the bar.

I agree with the boundries statement.

My FWW has not been open about everything yet and she asked to go back to her homestate.

Each person has a right to be their own person right. However in the context of your relationship right now what he is asking for doesn't seem fair.

In addition to that sometimes it is sad to say but marriage does not equate to freedom.

Before I was married I partied every night, slept during the day and had my fair share of women. When I got married then had children I made the choice that I would give up some of these freedoms. I don't resent not having my freedom, I have gotten so much more with my family then I ever gave up.

Sure everyonce in a while I long for those days but then my son comes up and says You are the best daddy and it all make sense to me.

So far we have gone to a MC who convinvced me that it was all my fault- Not true. Our problems are not all me!! He never addressed the issue of my husband's issues- depression, lack of responsibilty, and the A. It was all CFC you need to do this and that and this and that. Everytime my H would leave and be like this makes it worse seeing that someone else validates my ideas and thinks that you need to make changes. I know I need to make changes, who doesn't. I think the MC was trying to win over my H so that he could help him, but the steps to doing this were wrong. He kept asking me questions like what do you want?? And I would say. I want what I have- 2 kids, my business, and my @#$#@% WS. His response would be but what do you really want? I would say happiness and he would say what do you REALLY want? It was like the part in Anger mangement when he introduces himself to his counseling group and the counselor says who are you? he answers and the counselor says, but who are you??

I told him I didn't know what the right answer was, but I wanted to live the life that we had created.

[color:"yellow"] [/color]
In the end the counselor led us to my H saying I never wanted a D but I want one now. This was our last session!!.

I have read MARs/Venus some with my H, but to no avial. WE still agree to disagree on the freedom issue. I think he needs freedom, but not at the expense of everyone else!!


I totally agree with the whole trade your freedom for children. I have completely sacrificed for my children to provide them a better environment than I was raised. I have completely dedicated my life. This is what I wanted and still do. I want my children to be the best they can.

With this thought, I still thought that my marriage was more important. Children, I said need a good example of a good marriage and need a firm foundation to grow. I thought that if we both decided that the children were the most important than they would be. I did not account for what we need to be people. That has been one of the biggest changes I have made lately- recognizing that we need time together without the kids and time on our own without the kids. Of course my time alone= clean the house.

Everyone is right that if the affair hadn't occured then I wouldn't have any of these problems. People look at our marriage and say how they have never seen such a great couple. Friends say they wish they have what we have, but somehow my H is soooo unhappy. His responses to me are based on his feelings at the time. Where as i try to be big enough to recognize the right answer regardless of the feelings I have at the time.

Still seeking's comment on "It is better to use boundaries. The other peson has the freedom to do as they desire, but if they do X, you will do Y." This is what I need to do. I need to sit and write some boundaries for myself.


You know what you said about sometimes marriage not equating to freedom is what my H need to learn. If I set limits like we need to compromise on all of our decisions then I think that will help!

Now about you:

Are you moving??? you said last time that you would need to be packing. In two weeks you are moving??

What about moving away from the area that the OM lives not to it? Also, I know it has been a long time ago, but do you think your W may want you to move so that she can have her OM. How is you W feeling about your Marriage? Is she satisfied? Or, and please don't be mad, but is she moving her family near to her family so that she can ask for a D with support from her family. Not to mention it would make it harder for her to D you where you are now and be able to see her children when she wants to be in another state. Sorry i just had to ask becasue from an outside look she seems to want to be in control. Are you both sure that you want to move?? Are you moving just because this was the reason for the A? How about telling me about the move.

Please, Pass the spinach dip, it goes well with my cape cod. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


By the way have you set boundaries? what are they and how did she respond? DOn't you think to some degree this is controlling, If my H decided to set boundaries he could say:
I can't stay with you unless you will be happy when I go and party at bars unitl 3 am.

Or am I not understand this right?

I am tired.

Also you said that W refuses sex, what is your response? Does she not care that she is not meeting your needs. That really bothers me whne my H does this.


Oh and since I am adding more, Have you stared working on recovery now? YOu said she told you about the A , but then you just said she didn't tell you everything. HOw long did it last?

So far we have gone to a MC who convinvced me that it was all my fault- Not true. Our problems are not all me!! He never addressed the issue of my husband's issues- depression, lack of responsibilty, and the A. It was all CFC you need to do this and that and this and that. Everytime my H would leave and be like this makes it worse seeing that someone else validates my ideas and thinks that you need to make changes. I know I need to make changes, who doesn't. I think the MC was trying to win over my H so that he could help him, but the steps to doing this were wrong. He kept asking me questions like what do you want?? And I would say. I want what I have- 2 kids, my business, and my @#$#@% WS. His response would be but what do you really want? I would say happiness and he would say what do you REALLY want? It was like the part in Anger mangement when he introduces himself to his counseling group and the counselor says who are you? he answers and the counselor says, but who are you??

I told him I didn't know what the right answer was, but I wanted to live the life that we had created.

[color:"yellow"] [/color]
In the end the counselor led us to my H saying I never wanted a D but I want one now. This was our last session!!.

I have read MARs/Venus some with my H, but to no avial. WE still agree to disagree on the freedom issue. I think he needs freedom, but not at the expense of everyone else!!


I totally agree with the whole trade your freedom for children. I have completely sacrificed for my children to provide them a better environment than I was raised. I have completely dedicated my life. This is what I wanted and still do. I want my children to be the best they can.

With this thought, I still thought that my marriage was more important. Children, I said need a good example of a good marriage and need a firm foundation to grow. I thought that if we both decided that the children were the most important than they would be. I did not account for what we need to be people. That has been one of the biggest changes I have made lately- recognizing that we need time together without the kids and time on our own without the kids. Of course my time alone= clean the house.

Everyone is right that if the affair hadn't occured then I wouldn't have any of these problems. People look at our marriage and say how they have never seen such a great couple. Friends say they wish they have what we have, but somehow my H is soooo unhappy. His responses to me are based on his feelings at the time. Where as i try to be big enough to recognize the right answer regardless of the feelings I have at the time.

Still seeking's comment on "It is better to use boundaries. The other peson has the freedom to do as they desire, but if they do X, you will do Y." This is what I need to do. I need to sit and write some boundaries for myself.


You know what you said about sometimes marriage not equating to freedom is what my H need to learn. If I set limits like we need to compromise on all of our decisions then I think that will help!

Now about you:

Are you moving??? you said last time that you would need to be packing. In two weeks you are moving??

What about moving away from the area that the OM lives not to it? Also, I know it has been a long time ago, but do you think your W may want you to move so that she can have her OM. How is you W feeling about your Marriage? Is she satisfied? Or, and please don't be mad, but is she moving her family near to her family so that she can ask for a D with support from her family. Not to mention it would make it harder for her to D you where you are now and be able to see her children when she wants to be in another state. Sorry i just had to ask becasue from an outside look she seems to want to be in control. Are you both sure that you want to move?? Are you moving just because this was the reason for the A? How about telling me about the move.

Please, Pass the spinach dip, it goes well with my cape cod. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


By the way have you set boundaries? what are they and how did she respond? DOn't you think to some degree this is controlling, If my H decided to set boundaries he could say:
I can't stay with you unless you will be happy when I go and party at bars unitl 3 am.

Or am I not understanding this right?

I am tired.

Also you said that W refuses sex, what is your response? Does she not care that she is not meeting your needs. That really bothers me whne my H does this.


Oh and since I am adding more, Have you started working on recovery now? YOu said she told you about the A , but then you just said she didn't tell you everything. HOw long did it last?

Wierd I thought I answered this lol.

We have to move they are renovating the complex we live in. We are moving from one apartment to another within the complex.

I am not worried about OM for a few reasons. One is that he lives over 3,000 miles away. The A lasted 4 weeks while she was out of state to attend a friends wedding and visit family. Or the physical affair lasted that long. Two weeks of phone contact when she got back.

The other reason is because he is really a complete loser and she could do way better then him. She has come to expect certain things that she cannot get from this loser.

My FWW crossed every boundry I set after the A. Like no flirting. When she corssed that boundry I became very angry and never relented. Now she hasn't flirted in like six months. I don't know if it will happen again but if it does I will let her know my displeasure.

If he sets a boundry like 3am curfews then tell him no. Neither one of you have to accpet the boundries that are set. But it could lead you down a slippery slope.

When I say she hasn't told me everything I mean she hasn't. For example I just found out last week what happened the first night. I knew she went out then had sex later but nothing in between. There are many other examples of that but in a nutshell I have been waiting two and a half years.

We get into it she starts disclosing then calls a time out and says we can talk about it again later. Two and a half years later I guess. When I bring it up again she says I am dwelling. I keep saying I am not dwelling you told me you would be honest you called a time out now you want to be done.

Hey I just read your post: Wow!

Somethings rang out in my head:

"It took her almost 2 years to admit to everything that I descirbed above. The only reason she admitted to it is because I put two and two together. She was never open and honest. The way I found out she took my kids to the amusement park is because they told me. She did nothing to hide her behavior from anyone that was close to me so it was easy to find out."-

It would make it sooo mauch easier to trust your S if they came clean and told everything. We would then know that they were ready to make it work.



"Long story short she just kept taking withdrawls from the love bank. Not little withdrawls but big ones. There were more but this is already long."- think that ALL WS do this in order to decieve themselves into thinking that they do not care about you. they think, If I don't care then I don't have to feel guilty for what I have done.- VERY WRONG. They should have guilt for hurting another person regardless of what they have done and they should feel even worse that it is the person that they promised to care for.


"When I gave her very specific things she could do to deposit into the account she took them with a grain of salt. I asked her to get dressed up for me everyonce in a while in some sexy clothes. She won't even do that."-
This drives me insane. It just is blantantly saying I do not care for you. My H does this when he is upset or mad. He needs to understand that love is does not stop when your feelings are hurt. His love is conditional in that he responds to me I will love you when you.....I love H no matter what! Even after he has done the most hurtful thing I could encounter.

SO what is up with you now? I am glad you are moving locally. I was worried that you were moving close to the OM.

I continue to be in the same limbo- Waiting for my H to commit his love to me. I have been waiting 13 years. I guess I need to set a limit, because I know that I cannot live th rest of my life with a man who is unwilling to commit to me and say he loves me. I need a man who is willing to say I love you unconditionally. I need to know I am secure and protected. We need to be commited to movign forward in this relationship to make a commitment to work on things. I would liek to do a MB weekend, but know he would laugh about it.

I would like to know from other BS what did you do to spark your WS into recovery?


My H is tired of talking about things. He just wants to go on with life as normal, but yet was unhappy enough to have an A?!

Oh and have any of you done a MB weekend?
How did you convince your S to go if they didn't want to?

How did you spark when you first met? What was it? The initial attraction? Sometimes for the spark, you have to go all the way back to the beginning.

I suspect that your H isn't the only one tired of talking about things. I suspect that you get fed up with it too. If you could sit down and talk through all your feelings and emotions and who did what to who's in one long marathon session with each other, recovery would take a month or so (guessing) of non stop talking, expressing, communicating, apologizing, crying, laughing, on and on and on. NOBODY has the patience of energy for that. You don't eat your steak all at once, you cut off small bites and eat them one at a time.

I believe I saw a quote from SH earlier that said something to the effect of falling in love with another person other that your spouse doesn't result from not having ENs met in your marriage but it results from not caring or not knowing what your own weaknesses are and putting yourself in a position to have those weaknesses exploited.

Is he unhappy or is there a weakness?

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well for me things are pretty down in my life and in the hopes for my marriage.

I have posted other questions here and realized that there is no way to meet my FWW needs.

We discussed radical honesty and her response is fine we can talk about it what do you want to know. We discuss it for a while then she says she has had enough for now. After the last Q&A I told her how much I appreciated it. She said "I don't see what good it does". Even after reading Josephs letter. I said well it doesn me good and thats why I really appreciate it. She gave me the ultimatum that we could talk about it one more time. I could ask any questions I wanted then we were done. I said well the problem with that is that I come away with more questions sometimes. You drop a bomb on me and I cannot think clearly. I think that we should commit to discussing this until I don't have anymore questions. She said no.

We had a wonderful weekend without the kids. I took her to a late lunch/early dinner. We went to the movies. Took her to DQ for some ice cream. Gave her a bath with candles then a 45 minute massage. Next day lunch, walking around the outdoor mall. Nice dinner and another massage. (she loves those).

It has been 5 weeks since the last time I brought up the lingerie. In those 5 weeks not one time has she dressed up in it. BTW we were walking around the mall one day and she saw this baby doll she really liked. I told her no way I was going to buy it because she will never wear it anyway. For a few days I heard how I want her to dress up but wouldn't buy it for her. I went to the mall at lunch bought her the baby doll and 10 months later have seen it 3 times.(all right after we had a fight that I brought it up).

I think I came to the realization my FWW can and never will commit to me.

She has wanted to move back east for 5 years now. I told her then we needed at least 10k in the bank to do that. She spent over 20k since then on herself. She blames me for not moving back. Says I make excuses. I have arthritis, bad knees, and a bad back. The cold winters would certainly have a bad effect on me. Plus she never did anything to save the money.

I have realized this is a huge love buster for her. She actually told me once that if we would have moved back she would have never had the A. When all of the lies about why she had the A were cleared up it all came down to that issue.

I think the reason I cannot get through to my FWW is that she is a renter in this realationship until the time she can ultimately go back east for her dream life. Not with OM that is for sure. I feel like when I am trying to make deposits all I am doing is replacing IOU's for her giving up living where she wants to live.

During our last Q&A she made the comment that it wasn't fair that I made the decesion to stay here. Still seems resentfull to me.

Now I have to decide I guess. Do I want a renter that is clearly waiting till the kids are old enough to go back east or do I keep trying and hope she will give up that mentality.

Hasn't worked so far. BTW we went to an MC regarding the moving issue before the A. When he told her she was clearly idealizing the east coast and that she needed to work on our marriage she decided she didn't want to go to him anymore. He told her she was driving a wedge in our marriage and if she continued to do that he would be crazy to move based on the way she was acting toward me.

I hear the same things for you that go on for me. I want two more children and H says NO NO NO. I can feel for your wife because all of us women are the same sometimes. She is telling you her needs and you are saying NO NO NO.

Of course she has done this to you forever but you are bigger than that!You don't want to take control, you want to compromise. And you want to teach her to do the same.

Are you from the area that you live? What is the drive to stay there? I know you set limits about moving, but did you compromise on this issue. Until we can save, $10,000 for the move, what do you want instead? Why does she want to go back there so badly? Can you provide for her what she desires back at home? If no is the answer you want and yes is the answer that she wants, what is in the middle. For example,if she wants to move back to be closer to her family. Can you create a Family of friends to help support her here? Can her family visit more. I think if the answer from you is no, then provide her some comforts while she is stuck where she doesn't want to be. I do not mean material things like she has asked before. I think she has used material substitutions for something she is missing in her life.

To get back from your wife what you wnat and desire, you are going to have to give of your self more than ever. Help her get what she needs as a person. Obviously she has failed with the finances and is unable to save the 10,000.

What about saying, I know that you really want to move back east. Tell her that this is a sacrifice for you because.......... Then tell her how much you love her and want her to be happy. Tell her that you will do anything to make her happy because that is what love is about. Then hit her hard with I don't want to feel resentment for this decision. I want to feel that our love and commitment flows in both directions. If it doesn't then I will be deeply hurt. I need you to make as strong of a commitment because you say that you love me. I want you to commit to making this marriage work. The first thing that we will need to do is fix the problems that we are arguing about and then we can begin to work on rebuilding our love for each other. In saying these words to you I am giving you all of myself. This is hard for me because I have yet to regain trust after what you have done. I am blindly throwing myself off a cliff hoping that you will catch me in your arms. I am hoping that you will give to me the things I need to recover. I need a commitment to telling me everythign about the affair (If it takes just one more time OK)and a commitment to reassure me when I have questions about what happend that you will answer them from here on out. I will in turn try only to ask you things when they are really bothering me as I know it is a love buster for you (and it makes her think of what she is not getting from you, but got from him). My step towards solving the problems that we have is that I am going to try to fix your problems by helping you get what you need (moving back). After we both get what we need, i would like us to continue to work on our relationship until it becomes better than ever. I love you, that is why I am still here, and I want to prove it to you by gicing you what you need.


I want to ge to this point with my husband. I want to get to the point of why he did what he did and commit to recovery. I want to recommit ourselves and move forward. I feel that it is almost like a diving board that you must jump off to move forward. I want to say I know what happend, why it happend, and now I am going to dive in and fix the problem. The water is not safe, but at least I can swim. AS I am in the water i can still see the diving board, but it is not as scary anymore because i have already jumped off it and I am still okay.

I hope I haven't come off too strong for you. I think trying this may help. My wish sometimes is that friends in my life will be this radically honest with me. Hey I see that you do this ..... and why don't you try this.

I reallllllllllllllllllllly hope this helps!

BW 29
WH maybe FWH 29
knowledge of the affair -the week after he began the affair 10/31.
D DAY - Confrontation of details and the stop to the affair January 7th

2 kids 2 and 5

Love is the gift of self. At times it means empting oneself to reach out to others. In a sense it means forgetting oneself for the good of others.- Pope John Paul II

CFC

Thank your for your well thought out advice.

We live 3,000 miles from where she grew up. I grew up where we live now.

I would have moved before the A. Not now or ever.

She rejects everyone here as not being as good as people from back east. Always finds flaws in people here saying they are shallow etc.

I will not mislead her into believing that I ever will move or compromise on this issue. I will not. I am not trying to be controlling on this issue. We are well past the point of compromise on this issue. I was willing to compromise before but not now.

Background for you. She wanted to move back I told her we needed the money. She decided because I wanted to discuss it I was never moving back. She went out and spent almost 7k on plastic surgery. Another 3k and we might have moved. Then spent about 1k on clothes for her new look.

She has used that as an excuse for all of her actions and now I am past the point of compromise.

One important note. If I move there child custody laws are in favor of the mom. Where I live now they are 50 50. Not going to take that chance.

If she insists on moving back to be happy I will have to make a decesion. I will never move back.

have you read HNHN? or surviving an affair? Will she read them?

LOL. No any mention of the word affair, former wayward spouse, adultry etc. makes her feel like she is being labled.

Just had some radical honesty today and I feel like crap.

Not to mention the fact I am mean, a horrible person, sick in the head, not a man. I can list them all.

Funny how she is resentful of the names I called her when I found out. Didn't stoop to that level though.

When she started throwing the wedding pictures out I asked her not to. She did any way. I told her I called the police because the night she hit me I was threatening to throw away her clothes. That night wasn't about her hitting me it was about me throwing away clothes and having her arrested.

When she told me she wanted a divorce I opened up the yellow pages to divorce lawyers for her. Said there if your mind is made up here are the listings.

She has picked those two issues to prove I am the wrong one. When I brought up the name calling she did toward me she was very unapologetic. When I told her I am a man, I take care of you and the kids and I live up to my responsibilities she rolled her eyes at me.

Things fuzzy in my world today.

Hey sorry to hear about your horribel day. I was living in my own h#$%ish weekend. Mothers day was a huge argument and lots of crying!!! Today was a emotional roller coaster low. When will this ride stop? I am sick already! Oh and WS started class today. He has 3 hours between class and work and he will not be coming home. I surprised him today and showed up at work when he said he would be there until 4:00 and was leaving at 3:15, BUT he had his wedding ring on for the first time in 8 years!!! He was also on the phone taking care of Bills I gave him to do. So myabe all of that equals out. We has a nice day after that. Last night I put down all that I had to tell him that I needed him to commit to the MB agreement and begin to work on it. He said he needs to see a reason to first! Will I ever be appreciated? I hope so! One day he will tell me he is sorry (I hope!!) I asked him to wear his wedding band to show his commitment to making the MB priciples work. He said our wedding band is like a nuse around his neck squeezing tightly around his freedom. I explained that we should agree to a divorce if he is not willing to show me that he can try to put these principles into work. The conversation changed after that. I wish he would play games and come clean about his feeling towards me. You want me or you don't. I will continue to wait because love is patient! I really need to work on the patiences I guess here is my chance. Foggy here too!

Sorry to ramble when you seem that you are an emotional wreck. The things that you tell me I wonder why you two are still together?? Love Busting and all of that. Are there good times? Why do you love her? Will you ever be able to get past the A and move forward? Are you working to meet her needs and does she care at all for yours? Can you atleast agree to not being the source of each others unhappiness? YOu could move forward into recovery and try to make things better (just a suggestion). Eventually she will become more honest. I think when she sees you showing her the way that you need to act! She need to learn to trust you too!


You are the only one that can show her how love is supposed to look. No matter how hard she hurts you try to avoid hurting her. Turn your check and take what she puts out. Eventually it will not be fun for her to come back at you because she is encountering no response. I was reading last night how when anger wins love loses. Whe she is trying to show anger or LB in any way, you can not respond. Anger is a form of punishing th eother person because they have hurt you in some way. If you don't let her punish you (i.e. respond to her) she will need to learn to treat you the right way. One person on this site was writing in everytime that she felt like exploiding towards the spouse. This kept her from LB. It could be a good plan for you.


Okay now remember these are just my suggestions and ideas from what I am hearing from you. I hope that I am not overstepping my boundaries. I am worried that you are setting yourself up for another affair.

Q for U- Tell me about what you feel is appropriate space for a spouse. Regarding bar hopping, going out with the friends... I need to address some of the issues as these were the reasons he says that he had the affair. If I was soooooo controlling, i would have controlled the fact that I didn't want him to be out at 2 am %$*%&^&)* and whatever else they were doing. At the time in fact i was tring to give into soemthign he felt that he had missing in his life eventhough I didn't agree to it i said to go and not worry about me. Look where that got me.


Why do people play games? i wish that all things were cut and dry. By the by the refreshment table is getting dry!

Hope things get better for you quick!

Well things are actually better for me today. Friday was probably one of the worst days I have had.

She basically realized I was not going to accept anything other than radical honesty and she gave it to me.

After that I was at peace.

Why am I married to her right now is a good question. I really don't know other than I love her.

I am making one last attempt here to save my marriage I think. On Friday when we were discussing details she sat there looking hostile while she was telling me some details. When she got done she asked what can I do. What do you want from me. I walked over put my arms around her and said this is what you could do. Instead of acting like you hate me because you have to admit your actions why don't you hug me and tell me how sorry you are.

At the end of it we were good believe it or not.

I gave her a wonderful mothers day. Bet she didn't expect gift cards from the salon she goes to and gift cards to strbucks after friday. Took her to dinner too.

Today I got home to a card telling me how much she loves me.

Funny thing in the conversation I did not love bust once. My last count on her about 15. LOL. I realized she did this to get a rise out of me this time she didn't. It allowed the conversation to continue where in the past it ended.

I am sorry you had a crappy time. His ring is a noose? Please it is a symbol of love that has no beggining or end.

My FWW has the same commitment issue as your FWS. Just in a different way. The back east issue.

Hopefully he will wake up.

Soooo glad for you. Maybe you needed to just get onto the right track. i hope you have found it. Funny, I got a fortune the otehr day that said, You can be on the right track but if you sit still you will get run over. An omen ???? LOL I thought of you saying that you hoped that they would both get onto the righ track. Now they are, BUT they need to keep moving.

I should say we are on some track, I hope it doesn't lead to a long dark tunnel.

H said the other day that he didn't want to talk to this long term buddy of his because he intrduced us and he was mad that he ever introduced me to him (my H). How hurtful. He also continues to say he has hatd me for 10 years and has no idea why he wants to make it work. I see no love coming from him. I really have no clue why he doesn't love me and why the affair occurred. But then he starts wearing his band and commits to the MB ideals. SOOO confused and thinking about Divorce.!!!

Ok so why are you still there. I know you asked me that question.

I know part of the answer already the Kids. That is part of my answer as well.

If he doesn't love you that is his problem not yours. You can only feel good about taking what he is giving you. Not what you demand.

There will be a lot of flip flopping. My FWW is a little different she tells me I should D her. She tells me I never loved her. I know I did and do love her.

Sometimes I just don't get it and I don't think I ever will.

You know one time during this whole process I was getting so mad that I was this close to having an A myself. Not to punish her or get even but to show her that she was really wrong about the way she would react. I wouldn't talk to you like that if you did it. I wouldn't call you names. I wouldn't yell at you. She was so perfect in the way she would react to it.

I told her no you probably wouldn't. You would get a lawyer divorce me and try to move my kids out of the state. I would rather be yelled at then divorced.

Oh I am ranting again.

It is what it is. I hope he straightens out and sees what he has. Anyone that would put up with what we have must really love someone.

I wonder every day whether I love him. I am tired of the roller coaster. I have tried the motion sick bands, but they just don't work!! LOL twice!

I lose love every comment he makes and his stand offish behavior makes me sick (resentment).


How long did it take for your wife to say she wanted you? or has she. YOu did say she said sorry right?

WOuld you stay if you didn't have kids? If the answer is no, have you thought about life after they are gone?


My H expected me to throw him out right away that is the problem. I turned around and did the opposite. I said I love you and people make mistakes. We can get through this together for us, not the kids. This shocked him because, he wants out by way of me. He doesn't want to make a decision on his own. I think that he hasn't loved me for 10 years. I think that he devised a plan to get away from me without him having to leave (interestingly enough he has told me that our brother in law was planning the same think- I think he was telling me to see my reaction). He would make his girlfriend (toghether 16 years , but not married formally) so angry at him that she would kick him out. How low! I think that is what he wants- to leave but not make the decision. MAybe I am being sucked into the fog of his feelings or maybe what he is saying is true and he hasn't loved me! Why would you have children with someone you don't love? twice? He said I pressured him into it. SORRY Rambling AGAIN!

Oh about the A thing- me too! not out of spite or revenge, but H abandoned us for a weekend- just up and left didn't tell us goodbye or where he was going. REfused to answer his phone..... I called my first love (I always wanted to see if he was okay or not, but felt that I couldn't while married. I thought that my H left for good and I called. It made me feel better temporarily). I then realized the feelings that I felt for him. He felt badly for me and kept calling for a week. I didn't return his calls and finally had to explain that I thought I would be beginning an EA if I continued to talk to him. I told my H I thought I almost had an EA but not with who. He said he wished I would sleep with someone else (probaly so he wouldn't have to feel badly).

After that I understood how my H could feel about someone else, IF I wasn't giving him what he wanted. BUT I was. I just have no idea why this A happend. MAybe H doesn't love me???!!!


Getting more confused daily. Maybe because H is wearing his wedding ring for the first time in 8 years and says he is committed, but continues not to protect me from disrespectful comments. HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!

Or maybe I am scared because he is getting close to me again and I don't want to be hurt?

I hate guessing games.

thanks fro reading my posts yearsofhurt I think you are the only one.

LOL.

I don't know what to do either.

Why are they so messed up. We are the hurt ones willing to change for them. They are the ones that hurt us and sometimes don't see their own short comings. I don't get it.

I am actually starting to contemplate a D at this point. I don't think my FWW thinks she has to do work to make me want to stay. It is almost when she took the vacation she took it from everything and expects it to go back to normal one day.

We are packing up our apartment tonight and all I can think is why am I doing this. Why did I just sign a one year lease.

I hope things work out for you sometimes me I just want to throw in the towel. I am tired of the pain this has caused me and my pride.

I feel like I am here because she lied to me so much and I kept thinking it wasn't that bad. Now that I know the truth it was really worse then I thought. I think if I knew then what I know now I would have divorced her then. I know I would have.

I keep asking myself why stay now if you wouldn't have then. Makes her lying benefit her even more. Screwed up I tell you.

As far as him loving you the question is does he love you more then he loves himself. Maybe I could introduce my FWW to your FWH they would probably get along.