I have been lurking and reading other posts for some time now but have never posted my situation which seems similar to so may others I have read.

My wife and I have been married for 17 years (we are both 41) and have two boys (7 and 4 years old). Since our first son was born W has been a stay at home mom full time. My 7 year old has mild autism and although I thought we have been handling this as best as parents can, it’s “NOW” (boy am I blind!) apparent this has taken a heavy toll on our marriage. I can honestly say that I have spent so much time and effort focusing on the needs of our son child trying different biomedical therapies to get our son back, that I have neglected our marriage and my W’s EN. The good news is our son is doing incredibly well. The bad news is my wife says she has put all she can in this marriage and wants a D. It seems like throughout our marriage she has been in and out of depression and has never been to see IC or MC. She has told me recently she believes she may be bipolar but is afraid to go to see someone because of the label they would put on her. I’m wondering after reading HNHN and a host of other marriage books that a large part of her depression could be the result of my not meeting her EN’s over the years. I do realize now, that she has over the years tried (Unfortunately she uses all the Love Busters for any conflict) to express her need for communication, but I was not hearing her cry for help. I have asked a couple times in the last few years that we try MC but she has refused.

On Feb 24th I got my companies cell phone bill (I share minutes with my W) that was over $1000.00 in overcharges. Looking it was evident that my W was having daily phone conversions with OM from California (we’re in the Midwest) whom she had worked with for a short time 15 years ago and has not seen since. I knew she had been having some contact last fall with him because of a new project she was working on and wanted some advice. She is self publishing a Children’s book which we are spending all of our savings on the publication as this is the new career she wants to pursue. I am and have been 100% behind her new career, but I think she has been planning for some time that once the book is published she would divorce me and have her new career. I know OM is trying to get her to use him for part of this project which will in her mind allow them to talk more and maybe actually spend time together in the future. However I had no idea she was talking to him daily for the last 4 months. I confronted her and she said she was not having an affair, that they were just friends and he understood her and the project that she is working on. My jealousy got the best of me and I opened up her journal that was lying on the dining room table and at that moment my world fell apart. She has written these morning pages for over 15 years and although she always left them on the kitchen counter or on our desk in plain sight, I have never once even considered looking at them. Not only did I learn that she is having an affair with this man (I have no doubt it would be physical if he lived close), it was obvious based on one of the pages in the journal that she had a previous affair with another man about a year ago with my boys swimming. I told her that just talking to another man everyday for hours on end is an emotional affair. She was/is not willing to admit she is having or has had an affair. She says she is not in love with another man but that she does have fantasies about other men from time to time. This was here explanation for the items in the journal. She is continuing the journals and really doesn’t try and hide them although she is not leaving them completely out in the open as before.

Fast forward 2 months to today;

For the last two months I have been trying to meet W’s most important EN’s, and in many ways It has been very successful. The arguments have basically stopped and from the outside it appears we are getting along better than ever. However based on the fact that her phone conversations and emails continue daily, I feel it’s time that I may have to change courses as I can’t keep this up forever it’s just to draining emotionally. I’ve also been snooping to find out exactly what type of relationship she is involved in as she will not talk about it. I have looked at all of the email correspondence by her and OM. Unfortunately all the Emails indicate that W is deep into EA/PA over the telephone and has phone sex a couple times a week with OM. There has also been correspondence about him coming into town in the next month or two. Because the OM’s work is able to help my W book publishing, I know emotionally she feels he is meeting needs that I can’t. The emails he has sent this last week have included extremely graphic photos of sex acts and him describing sex acts he wants to perform with W when they meet. Although this is killing me emotionally, I have not confronted her yet that I’m reading all there emails and know exactly what is going on.

I really am feeling at this point that I’m a complete doormat and want this thing to end. To be honest, if we didn’t have children I would not put up with this any longer. I do love my W with all my heart and will continue to work to save our marriage, but how much is a person suppose to take before they say enough is enough?

Last week had my first telephone conversation with SH. He suggested I use “respectful persuasion” to try and get her to read HNHN or talk to Steve individually at first then maybe together. So I have brought this issue up several times this week with no response. I know in her mind she thinks she has done everything possible to work on our marriage. I just can’t believe she is going to end 17 years of marriage (unlike what she is saying, it has not been all misery) and our children’s happy childhood for some 52 year old man whom has never been married (I’m sure he’ll be a great influence for my 2 young children and have a lot of patience with my autistic son) and hasn’t seen in over 15 years. All this without even talking to a MC or trying to work out our issues. Sometimes I think I must be the worst husband in America to deserve this!

My next telephone appointment with SH is on Tuesday. Any ideas on how to start a dialogue to get her to talk with me or even with Steve about this mess would be greatly appreciated. If she will not talk with Steve this Tuesday, I think I need to talk to him about plan B and exposure.

Thanks for listening to my venting!

Qbert

Qbert -

Hello - sooo sorry you have to be here. I'm glad you are already consulting with Steve. He is awesome.

Usually, exposure is also part of Plan A. It sounds like Steve may have counseled you to hold off on that????

It sounds like your wife is definitely in a fog. You have been meeting somer of her EN's but OM is meeting the rest. Hence she is back to the phone & e-mail during the week.

The way I got my WH to talk to Steve was this(line from Steve): "WH, I have found someone who I'd really appreciate if you'd talk to. He can help us figure out how we can make our Marriage work."

Not sure if that will work for you.......

Good luck with saving your M.

This forum is a life-saver for me.

Kim

I'd tried something similar on Monday that SH suggested.

"WW, I've been reading alot lately and am beginnig to see your perspective on what is and has happened. I have also read a book and have talked to someone that believes we can make our marriage better than it has ever been. I would love to explore that possiblity with you".

Her response was that although she has seen me change lately, that it is to late and she has wasted the last 17 years trying to make it work and She has nothing more to give.

I will keep trying this weekend without smothering her. I agree that exposure may force her to look at her actions and hopefully will bring her to the table. I'm definity going to wait until I talk to Steve before trying this as from what I have read exposure is one strongest sources to have a WS really look at themselves.

Thanks Kim,

Qbert

Had a conversation with WW late last night and she immediately got defensive when I brought up the subject of reading HNHN. She stated that you can find a book that agrees with your particular opinion on any subject. So I drop it and she went to bed angry that I bothered her with this. I purposely left the book out on the coffee table overnight and left it there most of the morning and although she didn’t say anything It most likely pissed her off.

Today she was back to her normal happy self and acts as if last nights conversation never happened. She emailed the following to OM early this morning to update him on her weekend plans.

"I'm Cinder(WW) today. It's rainy and cold. I'm doing some spring cleaning around the house. Tonight I'm going to (friends) house for a going away party. Tomorrow morning I'm taking the boys to (friends) church. In the afternoon, I'm taking them to Health Club. While I lift, they will play in this huge area for kids. After my workout, I'm taking them swimming there. Tomorrow night I'm going to just relax with a movie. That's it. I hope you're having a good day. Have fun at your brother-in-law's party tonight. I'll talk to you later."

Funny how she always uses “I’m” doing this and “I’m” doing that. The fact is “WE” did and are going to do all of thing in her email together, I guess she forgot to mention that! Is this just part of the fantasy to act as if the BS does not exist?

Unless I think of something tomorrow, I guess I’ll be the one talking to SH on Tuesday instead of WW.

Qbert

Qbert,
If you wish your ww to talk w/Steve, do not let her visit this site. Steve had me get my WH to fill out the 2 preliminary questionaires and after WH submitted them, he looked at the site and decided that the Harleys will just tell him to get rid of OP (EA for sure, not sure of PA) and he didn't want to pay to hear someone else beside me say this.....

I even wrote a letter to WH and copied Steve about "finding someone with a really interesting perspective on how to make our marriage the best....blah blah blah".....he was agreeable until he looked at the site. DO NOT LET HER FILL OUT THE QUESTIONAIRE BEFORE HER FIRST SESSION.

Thanks for the insight.

I thought about this. Based on the EN’s and the help with portions of her book she is getting with OM, I know she is going to completely resist stopping the A. My gut feeling is she will not talk to anybody because she does not want to face the fact that she is ruining our family and what this will do to the children.

When I booked the appointment they did suggested she fill out the two questionnaires. If she agrees to talk with Stever I’ll let her go into it blind and I’ll email Steve prior to tell him as much.

SaddestEver, I’m going to check your thread as it sounds like we are in somewhat the same situation.

Thanks for the advice!

Qbert

You are welcome....I am having my second appt with Steve Wednesday....hopefully he will have a back up plan for us. I have been doing Plan A -very hard with OW in the front of my brain 24/7. Good luck to you.

It just amazes me how the WS’s will hold onto something that is tearing their family apart! Hang in there and talk with Steve on Wed and I’ll do the same. Are you seeing an IC? I started meeting weekly with IC as soon as I found out and this has really helped ME deal with my feelings and the turmoil about this whole mess. This has given me some insight on why I have not provided some of the EN’s to wife so that I can change and work on myself.

Each morning I wake up and can't believe the nightmare that I’m living. Well, i guess just one step at a time. Take care of yourself and get some exercise to keep your body strong.

Qbert

Hi Qbert -

I hope that your wife will talk to Steve.....It will at least let Steve see where her mind is and help figure out a plan. Most WS do NOT want to follow the MB plan. Mine read some of Surviving an Affair & then said "It's a good plan, if you are prone to follow it."

If they are deep into their addiction, they do NOT want to give it up. It's like a drug addict. Getting their fix. And they don't want to follow MB b/cause they will have to give up their addiction.

They also don't like to "get educated." So, it might be wise to hold back from directing her to one of the Harley's books or to this website.

Just continue Plan A as hard as you can....then Steve will help you decide when to go into Plan B, etc.

Exposure is a huge tool. The WS hates it.

Take Care,

Kim

I know that complete exposure to WW that I know EVERYTHING that is going on and have seen ALL of their emails to each other the last 2 months will make her very angry, defensive and embarrassed. I mean how could you not be completely ashamed of yourself if your spouse read the crap they are writing each other and fantasies they are acting out over the phone! Hopefully exposure will shock her into reality of what the A is doing to our family and marriage.

My fear is that because she has been journaling about leaving me for so long that exposure may just push her over the edge and she’ll file for D. I guess the fear is something I’m going to have to face as I can’t keep this up forever!

We just got back from the health club with WW and the kids. We truly had a great time together. I started working out with her which I believe she has enjoyed. Do you think she’ll email OM and tell him what a great time we had this weekend together?! Just so many mixed messages, I don’t know what to believe.

Qbert

Qbert -

What all do you know about the OM? Is he married? Where does he work. Find out how to contact his family. Exposing the A to work and family is key.

I don't know if I would tell WW that you know all about their e-mails. She will find a way to hide that and you need access to this to monitor her behavior.

You will also want to expose to WW family.

MelodyLane is the exposure expert here on the boards. And of course, Steve will help you plan the exposure.

I'm glad you and WW had a good time working out. That is great for Plan A!!!!

Again, I would not tell WW how you know everything.

Take Care!

Kim

OM has never been married and is 13 years older than my wife based on some journaling from my WW. He works/lives in California and we live in the Midwest. I don’t believe he has been to town but it is certainly possible. I’ve actually thought about hiring a private investigator see if there is any dirt on this guy. I do have some email addresses from OM friends as he attached them to an email to my WW. I certainly could email all of them!

WW family is going to be difficult. WW siblings have all been thru divorces and her sister whom she is closest to married the man she was having an affair with. Since they appear happy after 10 years of marriage if she actually tells them it may help her way of thinking. I have a great relationship with MIL and FIL but I think ultimately they will stick with their daughter. WW hates my side of the family so she could care less what I would tell them.

I’m definitely going to talk to Steve prior to doing any exposure, but I think ultimately this will be the only way to get her see the ramifications of her A(s).

Qbert

I’ve noticed that my WW on the weekends (typically no contact with OM) is a completely different person than during the week when she has contact with OM. We had a great weekend (she mentioned several times how great it was) and last night ended the weekend with a movie at home. Then I woke up this morning she would barely talk to me. Is this intentional shift in her mind to be able to justify the A and contact with OM during the week? Do any other BS’s see this kind of behavior? Maybe some insight from FWS’s would help me understand what WW is thinking.

Qbert

Qbert,
I could have written your last post myself. This is exactly how it is for me/us, too. Monday mornings are horrible. I am sure it is all about EN's being met in different ways during the week vs. weekends. Since we don't have a two way mirror into their interaction together, we can't know how to counteract their connection. I do know my OP is the proverbial Damsel in Distress. Don't know the solution, but I hope Steve has some ideas for me on Wed. Wishing you the best.

Wanna place any bets on this?

Good idea - or simply do a legal search to se what pops up.

Have you been saving all those e-mails? Can you copy or scan the journal entries?

What does your wife know of what you know about all this?

Exposure is your next step. Do not delay.

How do you do a legal search, are there web sites for this?

I've been saving all the email correspondence. I haven't copied any of the journal entries yet.

She knows I am aware of the phone calls. A month ago I asked her to get her own cell phone plan but there was a mix-up and it didn’t get changed. So she is still part of my plan and I can follow all of the phone call times and dates online.

Because she leaves a few of the emails in her inbox (only those that have to do with her book) she probably assumes I have seen these. She has no idea that I have viewed all of their email correspondence.

I was not able to convince WW to talk to SH tomorrow, so I’ll be talking with him about exposure and the next step.

Qbert

It’s a complete turn-around from the weekends to Monday mornings!

I know from WW journaling and conversations with her that she views the last 17 years as a waste of her talent . She constantly says where would she be know if she had followed her career and did what was best for her. Because OM has always been single and has followed career (WW envies his career and would love to be doing what he has done), I think this feeds into her fantasy. She basically wants to forget she has a husband and two children and do what she wants to do.

I to hope SH has some additional insight and suggestions.

Qbert

Very typical WS rationalizing.

The greener grass syndrone.

Do not for one minute take this seriously - her rationalizing.

As for legal searches, start with Yahoo's People Search. You'll stumble upon all sorts of tools. I've never actually done one, so I can't offer personal experience.

WAT

Qbert -

I used Yahoo plus one of the services where you had to pay to get info(I only asked for address, phone # ....) Yahoo works pretty good as a locator tool.

Good Luck with your session ---

WAT is right though --- don't wait to expose. Don't let what her family history keep you from taking a strong stand that you believe in your M, want to save it and WW is having an A, trying to destroy the family.

Kim

Why do I care about this women so much? After a great weekend with WW and sons we are back to the weekdays which I call H*ll. It took exactly until 5:34am for my WW to email to OM this morning. 6 emails latter and 1 phone call. The last couple of emails included “Thank you for life's best natural high” and “mmmmmmm ... right back at you on that one, babe”. So apparently she waited all weekend for that wonderful orgasm you can only get over the phone. Why am I putting up with this crap? Yea, I do love my wife and am willing to put the time/effort and pain into making this marriage work, but enough is enough. I really think I need to stop snooping because this is killing me.

Sorry for venting and having a huge pity party! We had a really good friend over for a good bye dinner tonight as he is moving to Las Angeles this week, so I’m extra bummed out.

I was going to approach my WW after our friend left tonight to try one more time to get her to talk with SH tomorrow. But apparently I DO HAVE EMPATHY because my wife was really sad about our friend leaving and I didn’t want to add to her sadness. Imagine that, I’m actually thinking about someone else’s feeling instead of my own and it only took 17 years!

Tomorrow will not come soon enough to talk with SH and try to get some other ideas, as this ship is about underwater. I guessing he'll suggest complete exposure because nothing else has worked.

Qbert

PS, I did try the pay Yahoo search today and really didn't come up with much worthwile, except for some neighbors addresses.