Slow down bert.

If this guy such a scum bag, why is she (his partner) romatically involved with him?

Something doesn't add up.

I suggest you expose what you have to your wife and let OM's girlfriend fend for herself on the other end. Coordinating exposure can only delay it.

Consider the responses of others.

edit: I didn't see LH's response before I posted. He has a valid point about not bad mouthing OM to your WW. Duh!

WAT

Well, i didn't get your advice until after I talked with WW last night and I did give her a copy of letter. Girlfriend confronted OM last night.

OM emailed the following to everyone.

Hi BS, Hi Girlfriend, HI WW

Hope all is well with everyone. Lovely day isn't it? How's work going?
Everybody having fun? good! Me too!

Too bad the e-mails with the jokes in them weren't passed around, (some have been quite funny), or the creative e-mails regarding art, creativity, book covers, music scoring, illustrators, the pleasantries of a close friendship etc., sharing that dry sense of humor, advice to one another to further ones personal endeavors in the realm of art, the emotional support and encouragement to pursue the personal love of it, or the encouragement needed to pursue those lofty - sometimes unrealistic, maybe always unrealistic - but ultimately, achievable goals IF the heart and mind are unwavering in its aim weren't also acknowledged.

What you have perhaps missed all along is without creativity and being blinded with the belief that anything can actually be done, there would have been no Beatles, no rembrandt, no television, no phone, no presidents.
Its NOT always about the money or the check, for some of us, its about the personal accomplishment you pulled it off against the odds, did it well, to the very, very best of your ability and for that one exact moment, when you realize you created what you set out to do, there IS no greater rush, sense of pride, euphoria, that you, and only you, were the creator of that work.

It appears that's hard for non creative people to understand, which on the other hand is something equally hard for those of us who are creative to comprehend how you cant understand it. Sometimes when you aren't getting that reinforcement for what you love and believe, you seek it elsewhere or you have face the fact you would have to give up. And why should you? Its part of you.

I would recommend that perhaps the next conversations and soul searching you should have amongst yourselves while you are wallowing in the "poor me" syndrome is: "how did I let you down, what signs did I miss, maybe it was I, that didn't understand what you needed?" or "I should have listened when you were trying to tell me about your work" or "IM sorry I was so blind to who and what you are on all those other levels" or" I was too engaged in myself and how wonderful I thought I treated you to notice I stopped paying attention to YOU and what made me love you in the first place". Try those for starters, instead of the "how ungrateful, after all IVE done for you" pep talks you are so righteously feeding yourselves these days. Grow up and take responsibility for your part in the "problem" as you see it. Believe it or not, you are 1/2 of it. Yes, really!

Its your call, take either course you choose.

Since it appears you like taking the "low road," Id appreciate If you would please forward all of your personal e-mails to me so i can pass them on to other people who work with, people I don't even know, so we can all share in each others personal thoughts and statements. That would be fun don't you think?
Certainly, there is no harm or any legal ramifications involved in invading one's privacy without their legal consent right? Privacy statements on the net really have no meaning do they? hmmm.

In closing this, what appears to be, a shared open forum, I have more class than to share anything personal here about Girlfriend with all of you, which I could, and WW has had more class than to share anything personal about BS, (neither of which has ever been discussed, asked for, or come up in any conversation or e-mail, nor would it ever) and I would highly recommend the other two of you do the same and show some class yourselves. How absolutely tacky. Show the strength in your beliefs and relationships and work it out, instead of blaming someone else for what you, yourself, let fall apart. Or don't, its your life, your decision.
(did you really tell all your friends in high school every detail of your dates? It would appear from your actions you did)

I wouldn't have asked before, since we agreed not to talk some time ago, but in light of this need by everyone to share their opinions, feelings, and personal information with one another, without consent,
I would like you to give me a call WW.
There are a few things that need to be said, added or expressed after all this.

If you choose not to, I understand, but thank you for sharing your book, I think ITS GREAT! Plus all the talks about the illustrations, the studio, engineers, the music scoring, the CDs, the art for the covers, the story rewrites, the song lyrics, Shaun's songs, the scripts, the voice over talent and all the rest. You can do it. And I still think you should be the narrator!

And by the way . . The art for your logo, the cards and the name of your upcoming book company are all yours. no fees, now or anytime in the future. Use as needed or wanted. You have my total permission.
I appreciate the fact you let me make them for you. It was fun for me to do it.

thanks
OM



Do I respond. If so I would love some feed back/ideas on how to respond to this complete crap and justifications as I'm not the greatest writer in the world.

Qbert [i][/i]

Of course you don't respond to that.

You'd be responding to someone who thinks he has no responsibility other than to himself. He's playing the "woe is me" game. "What did I do?" He is ready and willing to take advantage of any married woman who is vulnerable. Pondscum.

So, what's your WW's current attitude?

WAT

Last night she was amazed and stunned how she was played. I really tried to listen to her and not be to judgemental. She did express remorse for the loss of the friendship but i think that the fantasy that she built up about OM has been shattered.

I have called and asked her that before she even thinks about calling OM as he requested that we talk.

Qbert

Absolutely - try to persuade her that he just wants to play her some more. He's been exposed for what he really is and he desperately wants to undo the damage. Pathetic, really. The best posture is no contact, but she's probably not ready to consider a NC letter yet. Feel your way.

It's vitally important for you to be the Knight now. Validate her pain and don't rub her nose in it. It's OK, IMHO, to allow her to feel victimized - for now. It's not healthy for her to play this role long, though.

Also, please consider a session with SH to help gguide you through this unstable period.

WAT

The best thing that she can do at the moment is NO CONTACT WITH THE OM.

If he needs to say anything to her, let him say it through you. And vice-versa.

I just talked to WW and she said that she does not intend to call him. She said that he is "playing the role of the victim" as the Girlfriend letter said he would.

WW has an appointment with IC for the first time on monday. I would love to have us talk to SH again but don't think she would agree based on her first conversation with him. I think I will call for an individual session. I actually have my IC session with my therapist in a couple of hours.

Qbert

Good job, bert.

What are your thoughts regarding staying in touch with OM's GF? - to monitor contact? I'm not advocating one way or the other - can't tell from here whether OM's GF seems reliable/cooperative.

WAT

I actually just got off the phone with her. OM's letter although adressed all four of us, was only sent to WW. So I forwarded to Girlfriend.

She told me that before she was involved with him he did this to another married women and she left the marriage. OM then caught her (that's what he said..I doubt it) in bed with another man. This guy is a complete SNAKE!

Girlfriend is reeling as this effects not only her relationship but also her work and livelyhood as they are business partners.

Qbert

In trying to be the "LIGHTHOUSE" should I try and get WW to talk about how she is feeling? No relationship talk, just listen if she wants to talk about how she is feeling?

Just rambling as trying to get any work done today is out of the question.

Qbert

Since I have nothing better to do than to sit at my computer thinking about this mess, I have a question for you lawyers out there. What Privacy laws have I broken by emailing correspondance between OM and WW to Girlfriend?

Qbert

None, I don’t think. Don’t worry about that. An as OM is the artsy type he would not know anything or think about privacy laws.

I would give WW her space and not push things. You may want to point out to WW that she can share her feelings with you whenever she is ready, but do not push her on this. WW will shortly go through withdrawal, and for the most part, this will be her cross to bear.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm sure the answer is none.

As for how to treat your WW at this point - well, I never got this far, so who amI to say? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I suggest you listen intently, validate her pain and disappointment, and pick up your underwear.

WAT

Just got back from my IC. When I showed her OM's letter she said she thought she had seen everything. She said this man is completely deranged.

I'm going to tread lightly tonight and if WW wants to talk I'll listen and be there for her.


Oh yea and I'll make sure I pick up my underwear! Thanks for the tip WAT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Qbert

If your IC needs to see more examples of "deranged", she could get a load any day on this forum!

WAT

WW last night is feeling the effects of the fantasy being smashed. Very crabby and can’t stop smoking. When I got home she said she just tried to keep herself occupied to keep from thinking of this mess. I told her if she wanted to talk that I would be willing to listen. She didn't take me up on the offer.

WAT – I did do some laundry, washed the dishes, made the beds and picked up the house before I left for work this morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

Qbert

Good job, bert.

Be patient.

Perhaps get an appt. with Steve for yourself?

WAT

Here are the happenings in my world. Since exposure last Monday about other man being in a committed relationship and a serial liar, WW fantasy has been smashed. Last week was the last week of school for sons and concentrating on that was basically all she was capable of. She asked if she could check into a hotel on Friday night to have some quite time away from the kids and messy house to think. I asked if she was going to talk to OM and she said she didn’t know. She said she would tell me if she called OM. In her words she said the fog is lifting and “I need a night to collect my thoughts since this week has been so emotional”. Since there was no chance of physical contact with OM (and I really have no control of what she does or doesn’t do) I agreed and she went off to the hotel.

I kept myself busy Friday night and Saturday morning cleaning the house (one of her EN’s of domestic support) and tried not to think about if WW was talking to OM which I knew was going to happen.

Saturday she got back home around 3:00pm and thanked me for the time. She said that her anxiety had drop 10 fold and she was in a "good place". She said that she did want to talk but asked if we could postpone until the evening. Late Saturday afternoon it was decided that son was going to have a sleepover with a friend at our house so the “talk” didn’t happen last night.

Sunday we went to church and the sermon was about “A New Line of Site” and the Pastor mentioned several times about struggling relationships and having to look for new ways to mend those relationships to save the family. Ever since we started to frequent this church at Easter, I’ve been praying for a Sermon that would speak to my WW….and today was the day. It was a great sermon and I knew it had an effect on WW.

After church WW asked if she could go to the book store as she was in the mood for a new book? When she got home from she said she was talking to one of her favorite employees at the book store and this women said out of the blue that she believed that Saint Michael was looking over my WW. She went on to explain that Saint Michael was a tall strong man who would “swiftly and passionately cut through the turmoil and deception with a sword to show the truth”. WW said this absolutely stunned her as she definitely had not spoken to this women or anyone else about our situation.

She thanked me for being her Saint Michael (my actual name and yes I’m tall), said that she loved me and believed that we are going to be fine! Strange that my first thought to myself was It’s going to be a long road to recovery before I’m able to say we are going to be “fine”…but I just listened intently and quietly as I’ve been waiting to hear this from her for the last 4 months!

She then told me she did talked to OM on Friday night. OM’s girlfriend had sent an email to me on Monday that I shared with WW. The email among other things stated that she believed OM has had numerous email/phone/IM affairs over the years (never had proof until Monday), has been impotent for many years (drugs don’t even work), and is a serial liar. WW said that OM basically lied throughout their conversation and since WW had this information about OM (OM didn’t know about the email from girlfriend) he basically buried himself. At the end of the conversation WW told him that they would never speak or communicate in any form again.

She told me that she is looking forward to her first counseling session tomorrow and that she knows she has a lot of issues she needs to resolve. She expressed again that she is most likely Bipolar or at least has some sort of clinical depression that needs to be addressed. I’ve tried to get her into see someone for years but she has always resisted. In addition she said she needs to finally resolve her deep seated lifelong issues with trying to get her parents approval and admiration.

She said that she knows we need to get into MC but asked if we could hold off a week or two until she gets a hold of her emotions in talking with IC. WW is an emotional wreck and desperately needs to get through a couple of IC sessions and possibly get on some drugs for her depression (BP?).

Well, that’s where we are at after a long emotionally filled weekend. I finally have some hope that our M can be saved <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />! However I’m realistic that this is only the tip of the iceberg and we have a long road ahead of us.

At least very least I think that the CAPTION HAS BEEN PULLED BACK INTO THE SHIP!!!!. The coming days, weeks and months will tell me if she is willing to help start bailing this ship as it is completely full of water and i'm tired of bailing by myself!

Qmike - great news!!

At some point a no contact letter should be sent, but based on your description of things, this may be a formality. But some FWSs have stated that just going through the motions of sending a NC letter provided helpful, symbolic severance.

You're now past my level of personal experience, so take any further advice from me with caution. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Today for the first time in months I woke up feeling like a ton of bricks has been taken off my shoulders and a smile on my face <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

I have a true belief that a great fulfilling marriage can be carved out of the hurt and dispear of what has happened. Although I'm going to proceed with caution and know that a long road to recovery is ahead of us, I’m excited that at least I have this opportunity.

I’m going to make an appointment with SH this week to keep MY MC game plan going and continue to work on myself (with IC) as WW starts IC today.