Thanks Bellevue,

I recently had some hormone tests done through my GP...all the results were normal for your average 38 year old gal.
Would a specialist do more detailed testing?

Just a bit of an update...

Since I started this thread things have improved a bit.

I think some of it is related to the fact that we're having some good conversations outside of the bedroom on the subject. That's a change for us as we usually wind up having late-night arguments in bed after failed attempts at intimacy.

Now, we're asking questions of each other in sutuations where we can both feel comfortable answering, without all the sexual pressure. It helps, but some things have come up that I'm not sure what to do with.

Back in early recovery I asked for details about their encounters. There was one that stuck with me to such an extent that I could hardly get it out of my head. At some point I finally managed to stop thinking about it, but now I'm seeing a bit of a pattern related to it.

My husband has a fairly aggressive approach to physical intimacy...as he did with her in that one encounter that I couldn't stop thinking about.

Now, when he approaches me in an aggressive fashion I react badly and push him away (emotionally & physically).

Even though I've stopped thinking about him with her...is it possibly I'm still reacting to the way he was with her when he approaches me?

I've talked about this with my H, and he does make an effort to 'soften' his approach, but he really seems to struggle with it sometimes. He's now concerned that I've blocked out some things about the A without actually dealing with them.

Is it worth opening 'pandora's box' again to see if I've dealt with all the things in it...or are we just asking for trouble by picking at really old wounds?

Any thoughts?

Dear Banyak,

would you "normally" feel good about such an approach?
Is it just the A-trigger that makes you push him away?

I'm just asking because everyone is different in that respect - some women get turned on with an agressive approach, some absolutely don't.

As for your own sex drive - from my own experience, I would suggest digging into YOUR phantasies to get this "going". You might be surprised at what you'll find. You have been so busy with what H want, what you don't want, etc etc.. Have you looked at what YOU find a turn on?

Also it would be an interesting thing to reverse the roles. Maybe tie him to the bed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

About the 'pandora's box' - is there a good counselor you could talk to about this? Sometimes it's sufficient to just be able to tell someone how you feel, a few times over perhaps, to get it out of your system.

But I do know from my own experience that taken things into your own hands (no pun intended.. or is there?) will you restore your feeling of power, control and self-worth.

Keep posting my dear.
Brit

Banyak,
I don't think a phys aggressive approach is kind, it sounds like a LB to me. I do know, from the man's perspective, that SF makes me feel connected and loving towards my W, kind of ties our relationship together and makes me feel loved and wanted. With no SF activities, tension rises w/in the M but that's no reason, in my opinion, that you should "give in" and feel used. It needs to come from within. Perhaps late at night isn't the best time for either of you, maybe a morning or mid-day weekend time is better?

Thanks for helping me with my SF questions a little while ago, I know the tension and feelings from the other side of the bed but it's not a reason to force oneself on their spouse.

V/r,
No way

Hey lady! You now have 2 emails <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I sent another about 20 minutes ago

I have a couple of thoughts. Take em or leave em. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tell your hubby hello from [H] and I!

Are you still in the same house you were when you found out? The bedroom may have way to many triggers. I know you have little ones but maybe you can move your activities to another room? Heck pitch a tent in the back yard if nothing else! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Literally and fiturativly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Is hubby journaling? Maybe instead of saying those things, he could write them out. Then burn them. I know that helped me in the past. It was either you or Orchid who suggested it.

Orchid had a good point about HNHN. Also try the 5 love langauges by Chapman. That realy helped [H] and I.

Have you done the questionnaires lately? It's worth a shot!

Date nights...Have you been doing them?

That's all I have for the moment. Hugs to you honey.

Love ya!
K

Banyak,


Ok so here is my two cents on the issue. Men and women sometimes have different reasons for wanting and needing SF.

For me and I am only speaking about myself as a man so no 2x4's. I can just about have SF no matter what mood I am in.

There are times I want it to be intimate and others I don't. My FWW knew that and it was fine because she was pleased either way. I made sure to keep a careful balance though. More intimate SF then not.

In my personal experiance since my FWW had her A she has really stressed the intimacy part of it. When in all reality there are times she has really ticked me off and I want some SF. Heck sometimes even more. We all know make up SF is great.

Now I don't know your H but sometimes we just want SF. Not for love or intimacy but just plain out down and dirty lust for our spouse.

In a sense if intimacy is the main thing for you any time it is not intimate you will probably feel used.

Now if he loves your chest you should be thankful but ask him to respect you as a woman.

I always ask this question when people are having something like this happen. Was this how your H acted pre A?

I do believe there is a blueprint for success here. For me if I want SF and my FWW isn't quite in the mood. I rub her hieney for a littl while. Rub her shoulders and kiss her neck. If after about 15 minutes of this she still isn't in the mood then I give up. So far that has seemed to work almost every time.

Now there are times where I am darn sure that she doesn't want SF and I don't even aproach her for it. I don't want to feel like I am being obliged.

So here is one thing that your H should read.

Banyaks H. Go buy some nice scented candles. Get a nice mellow CD. I actually have a Spa CD. Get some nice bath crystals.

Draw Banyak a nice bath and light some candles and play the CD. While she is in the bath go warm up some non greasy lotion or massage oil. I prefer the lotion because the oil is really greasy. When she is done with her bath. Give her an awsome massage. When I say awesome I mean focus on her back for at least 20 minutes.

You can take it from there.

The bath my FWW gets about once a month. The massage at least the awesome one once every two weeks with some good ones in there as well.

Banyak,

From reading all of this thread, I can't get a sense of what you enjoy related to SF. You have mentioned a few things that your H enjoys. I know it is difficult to talk about these things on a forum and I really appreciate how people here try to keepn things from getting weird thereby discouraging weirdos from reading what we write.

He likes your chest. Is there ever a time that you enjoy him playing with it?--any pleasure zones here? Do you O? I tend to agree with (was it) Max. It doesn't sound like you are getting much out of the physical relationship. What is it about that relationship that you enjoy? It does seem like it would help to figure that out and maybe more of it will fall into place. If you do not like the aggressive come-on, then H should cease it IMHO.

Get out that body lotion and let H massage your body where you like to be massaged. Let it be your turn for SF. I'm sorry you feel like you are being used--that's not a good feeling when it comes to SF. You need to feel like you are being fulfilled and that you are fulfilling you H. How can you get those feelings?

I suppose you two are already working on all this but I just felt the need to say this after reading your thread.
Lske

Banyak - please check my lastest email ASAP. I just sent it.

Hi Everyone...and thanks so much for all your replies and suggestions!

It's far too late right now for me address each point the way I'd like - it's after 1am here - but I'll be back soon to answer in more detail.

Knewjie...got your messages and will respond as soon as I can. Thanks for the update hon!

G'nite everyone!

B.

Hey lady. I look forward to your post. I'm not here much on teh weekends but feel free to give me a call. I'll shoot you the numbers just in case.

Love ya,
K

Hi there again folks!

Finally a bit more time on my hands to get into things.

I really do appreciate all the feedback, and my H has read the update, so I imagine we'll be having further conversations on the subject.

To clarify a couple of things, when I say my H has an aggressive approach I don't mean that he forces himself on me. In the past he's been a bit on the pushy side and didn't tend to take no for an answer on the first (second, third...) try. That has since improved. Now when I say no he'll respect that response more often without trying to 'change my mind'.

I think when I say he's aggressive I'm meaning that he's quick and purposeful - it's like he's already in 4th gear raring to go...and I'm still trying to decide if I'm in the mood. We've spent some time talking about checking in with eachother to see how we're both feeling and then trying to adjust from there so we're closer to being on the same page. That helps, but we haven't quite mastered that one yet.

Knewjie, we are in the same house we've always been in, but are currently in the process of building a new house in a town just outside the city where we currently live. I'm not really feeling like the house itself is 'trigger happy'...it's more my own head and knee jerk reactions that are the problem today.

The new house is the primary reason that counselling really isn't an option right now. We're both self-employed and don't have private health insurance, so with the expense of the new place we just don't have the extra cash to manage another bill right now.

In terms of the sex itself, when we get there it is fulfilling for both of us. We seem to read eachother pretty well in terms of what we each like and don't like.

The problem we have is getting past the initial (foreplay?) stage of things. I may be physically 'in the mood' but my head gets in the way. I start thinking about how I'm feeling and question whether I'm feeling forced, used etc. By the time I'm doing this I'll be pulling away, but H doesn't realize that's happened because he's already in that 4th gear. At that point I get upset that he isn't giving me space to sort out my feelings and push him away. Then I feel bad because he's not understanding where I'm at and is now hurt or angry because of my actions.

That's where our nasty cycle starts...I'm trying to explain my feelings and he's too hurt or upset to relate. He'll demand answers to questions I really don't have the answers to, and we both get so frustrated that the whole mood carries over to the next time we try to get intimate.

This is really confusing for me. There are times that we don't have any problems at all, and times when my head causes a whole world of trouble. I haven't figured out what makes one time different from the next...or how to 'turn my head off' and just let things happen.

That's why I'm wondering if I'm still somehow reacting to triggers I didn't know I had, or if there's some other issue we haven't identified yet.

I know if we keep talking openly we'll eventually get to it...I'm just hoping to help things along by sorting out what I can here on MB.

Banyak,


Well I think for myself anyway there are several types of issues that the A created.

All need to be dealt with in a caring loving manner by the FWS.

The surface issues, the skin deep issues and then the really deep issues.

IMHO there are residual issues that may last a lifetime after an A. It may take some time for the BS to even know there is that issue. There are so many to deal with some of course are just not uncovered.

Now there is a residual effect that is not going away with what the H is doing.

Maybe more space and time is what is needed. Maybe your LB is not full enough right now.

I don't know but this is obviosly an after effect of his A, and helping you now is just as important as it was in the beggining.

What is called for is kindness, love and understanding. From your post it doesn't seem like you are trying to be punitive or punishing. You have real legitimate reasons for your feelings. There may be something he can do to help you with those or maybe it is just time.

In either case you are the person that has to deal with these. With his help or without. Hopefully it will be with his help and understanding..

I am sorry for your sitch.

Thanks HL.

You said some interesting stuff.

One thing that stands out is that you don't think I'm trying to be punitive or punishing. Funny you should say that b/c sometimes H will accuse me of it. I haven't meant it to seem that way, but for one reason or another occassionaly it does.

I'm glad that from an outside perspective it doesn't look that way - I was starting to wonder about that point.

Who knows...maybe I'm just overthinking things. I know it'll sort out eventually, but it's tough to wait when things get so frustrating.

I have always said that peoples perception is THEIR reality.

Now if your H has that as a perception it is real to him.

Sometimes just saying "that is not why I am doing it" is enough. I really have these feelings and I want them to go away but right now this is the reality for me.

I don't want to do a chicken and the egg thing here but maybe this is perpetuating because of his reacting to you with anger. In other words you feel this way. What would help? Comfort and understanding? You get the opposite. Now when you don't feel like SF he might get mad.

Now you have 2 issues your feelings and the possibility he will get mad.

There is only one person that can make this about only one issue and that is your H.

My FWW does this too. As a matter of fact she did it yesterday.

She wants to go back to NY to visit. I in no way, shape, or form feel comfortable with that right now.

I told her I didn't feel comfortable with her going back to NY. She said I was being punitive or punishing. She said I should trust her. You know my story I can't trust her right now.

So I eliminated that from my mind. I am not that type of person. In all reality I am a very forgiving loving person or I wouldn't still be married.

Somethings take longer to forgive though and that is for both of you to own not just you.

Good luck

Have you tried plotting this on a calendar? Hormones may be contributing to this.

I am this way as well but I did plot my sex drive on a calendar so I do understand that it is related to my hormones. However before I figured this out, I related my lack of drive to my H`s behaviour, to recovery from the A ect. Those were constant issues though so that didn`t explain why some nights I was into it and other nights I was not.

There are a few days every month when my mind races, in bed and out. I am hyper physically sensitive but uable to concentrate. My fuse is also much shorter and I am ticked with just about everyone. I tend to find faults and I dwell on negative thoughts.

H understands my cycle and so do I so this is not an issue with us anymore.

This is a fascinating thread! I don't have any answers, because I can relate to a lot of your issues. We're 8 months past D-Day and I'm finding that lately the A's are coming back into my head whenever H tries to get intimate. It doesn't help that he seems to have a singular approach (foreplay is non-existent). Half the time I just go along with it and try to fake as much enjoyment as I can. This is not healthy, I know, but he doesn't seem to be interested in trying any new tactics. Anyway, I hope things get better for you.

Thanks folks!

HL...You've brought up a good point - you're on the money there. I question how I'm feeling, then get anxious because if I express myself he may react badly...and so on, and so on.

I'm going to try talking with him about this one and see if we can't come to some sort of agreement. If I can get him to understand that I'm not being vendictive, but just trying to work out my feelings he might be willing to put a lid on getting angry and just try to talk it out with me.

I'm a little worried about how to approach him with this. No offence, but that male ego can get in the way of understanding sometimes - any suggestions on a good approach?


Daisy - thanks for the input.
I remember reading someone elses thread where their hormone cycle was mentioned and it did get me thinking.
I have noticed that there are certain days in the month where my 'hormone drive' makes it easier to get past the stuff in my head, but I haven't thought of mapping it out on the calendar. I'll think I'll give it a try - thanks again for the suggestion.

Bronwyn, I'm sorry to hear our sitch's are so similar - I know how tough it can be. My H has a pretty 'singular approach' as well, but these days he's aware of it (he reads this thread when he has time) and does make an effort to be a little more...shall we say...sensitive to my needs?
Hang in there, and I hope the boards are able to help out.

Yes HONESTY. LOL

I have a male ego as well. I am going through SF issues in my M and have been for quite sometime. LOL.

Anyway with the singular approach thing. I think you will laugh at this. I actually took an Honors class in Human sexuality in college. It was an elective but everyone took it because they showed somewhat explicit movies. But the regular class was filled so I took the honors class.

They showed a movie that focused on men meeting womens needs in the SF area. These women were frustrated by the single approach thing as well.

What they did was remove the actual act itself from the equation for I think it was a month. Anything up to but not including. So kissing, hugging, petting etc but no traditional ...I hope you get my point I don't want to be graphic. The main point was it had to be mutually beneficial. The woman was not obligated during this month to take care of her H if he had not taken care of her first. I don't think he was even allowed to ask her unless he did.

Imagine how dang creative and loving and caring these guys became.

All of the women said it was so much better and the men said they actually liked it more too.

Now for the talking about it thing. Say I am not trying to punish you. I promise that. I love you too much to do that. I hope you understand that I love you more then anything in this world. I love being with you but sometimes these thoughts etc make it hard for me. I am in that spot right now. It is better then it was before and i am sure it will continue to get better as time goes by. If you can be understanding about it I know it will get better quicker because I know you are sensitive to what I am going through. I hope you understand.

Interesting stuff in that human sexuality class - kind of like that idea actually!

Thanks for the suggestion on how to approach this one - it helps.

I think I'm going to ask H to check in on this thread first - I'm sure it'll spark a conversation...wish me luck!

B.

Read His Needs/Her Needs.....u will find out that men vs women communicate very differently even on the subject of sex. For example, 2 very opposite organs spark the male vs the female. Understanding this is key to learning HOW to communicate effectively on many levels. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.