"I am enough work that he wouldn't have bothered if he didn't feel something real"

You're 2 young 2 know, yet, the difference between being "in love" and experiencing "real love".

Love is a choice, not a feeling. What you're describing here is "chemistry", and chemistry won't sustain you. In a 2ple years, precipitates will form at the bottom of your Erlenmeyer flask, and you'll have nothing left but a bitter-tasting solution.

(WAT, how did I do with that metaphor? Did I spell Erlenmeyer correctly? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

-ol' 2long
P.S. 2hip, gotta go mortise a hinge!

At what age is it SMART to have an affair with a married man? Do you really imagine that there is ANY age at which you can escape the consequences of profoundly foolish actions? You ARE very naive if you believe that, dear.

There will be consequences for getting involved with a married man. Not that he will ever marry you, but I promise you that if you do not start using more intelligence in your choices, you will suffer.

Choosing an unavailable married man who you KNOW is deceitful and unfaithful is not a wise choice that any woman can "afford."

When one chooses a marriage partner, some of the very most important traits that will ensure a lasting marriage are HONESTY and TRUTHWORTHINESS and FAITHFULNESS. This man has NONE of those traits, yet you oddly believe he is marriage material. It doesn't matter how old you are, you cannot EVER AFFORD to take such a stupid risk unless you are willing to pay high consequences. Such as being married to a man who will lie to you and commit adultery.

Just know this, if you do end up using such tragically poor judgement in choosing a marriage partner, you will be damning not only yourself to a life of he11, but innocent children. You will have no right to complain when your own H lies and cheats on you, because you volunteered. But innocent children did not.

I will just simply say that everything your MM has told you, my (F)WH told his mistress, to keep her on the string. He said he was divorcing me. He said he was going to move out. He said lots of things, but never followed them up with action.

If I were you, I would send a letter to the wife telling her of the affair, and asking for her idea of where her marriage is. What happens then will tell you everything you should already have known.

I wish you the best.

WAT again with the age thing! LOL!

I do have a father thank you very much, your surrogacy isn't needed.

And what exactly do "YOU" KNOW about anything? I bet you KNEW about your marriage until you realised you didn't right?

I'm starting off saying I don't know, thank you very much.

LadyJane, I don't need to sit down with his wife and do or say anything. I don't know her except for what I've heard from my SO.

And so you know, key members of his family know and his bestfriends.

Yes I know he's in the FOG right now. That's why I'm no longer making it possible for this to conitnue semi-hidden for longer.

LONG AND SHORT you've all been hurt by someone you feel that's just like me. That's where all this venom is pouring from. Everything you wish you could have said to your WS OP you're trying to say to me.

I get it.

But not all hands are the same.

Like it or not.

Some people do stay together long after a marriage ends - men in particular because the status quo is comfortable to manage.

Both their parents know of the impending divorce. Both know lawyers advised them to wait unless they saw the contract out.

TWO YEARS ago when SHE filed for D he started separating their assests, moving his business stateside, and their house is currently on sale.

We only started seeing each other 7 months ago. I had nothing to do with this.

Could I DISAPPEAR until it's all done - Yes. But he doesn't want that and has asked for my patience.

I would have been in this situation a total of 1 year by December. It HAS been loving, respectful, generous and healing for both of us.

So even if it ends, I'll be taking all that good stuff with me. The process of Plan A and B? A lesson in strength and discipline, and the MB rules don't just apply AFTER you're married! They can be used before you marry, in fact should be.

He's not 100% honest. Neither am I. Neither is any other human being on this earth.

But here's the joke - we don't make a habit of lying to each other about stuff that goes on around the relationship. And if we work out I will insist we go on the Harley's weekend seminar and take the one year MB course before walking down the aisle.

I'm no fool.

I'm sorry for all the pain OPs have caused in your marriages. But I maintain that I AM the "sort of"-OW and I can fight clean.

All he has to do is indicate there's something in the marriage for him. I will with my blessings (because I do care for his happiness) send him on his way.

MelodyLane, he PAYS me alright, but not with cash (at least not only) he PAYS me with attention, love, respect, affection, patience, understanding and did I say ATTENTION and RESPECT?

"I get it."

Um, with all due respect, you don't.

"But not all hands are the same."

Despair.com has a great poster that's relevant here:

"Always remember that you are unique - just like everybody else."

In this case, however, you are dead wrong. All "hands", with respect 2 affairs and affairee behavior, are very much the same.

-ol' 2long

Yikes, I saw this thread this morning and had no idea how to respond, except for one thing: You are not a "sort of" OW... make no mistake... you *are* the OW. I don't say that judgementally... I know from what I speak (as a FWW myself)... and ... I met my current H before the divorce(s) was final, so I really, really do not feel in a place to judge you.

However, I will say that your MM's inability to file for divorce should be sending some HUGE red flags out your way.

And you're so YOUNG... do you really want to be with a man who is dragging you along in some mamsy-pamsy "financially he can't do it yet" divorce battle? If it's bad now, it's only going to get worse when the divorce actually begins. And if his W is really wanting to get her hands on his money, you'd better be ready to support the man, because no matter if she cheated or not, she can SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO take him to the cleaners. Be prepared. And, be warned.

I feel for you because you seem to think this is real soul-matey stuff... and I believe that you love him. And while I don't agree with ML that *all* affair marriages end in divorce (because I've seen to many go on for years and years)... it's a nasty, awful way to begin the relationship/marriage. Marriage should be a place of peace and comfort. Somewhere down the line, AllsFair, you will feel crippling guilt and shame... I can almost guarantee it. And yes, affair marriage almost always end... and it usually has something to do with infidelity... because let's face it... he cheated on his wife... will you ever be able to fully trust him?

Maybe I should keep my veiws to myself but i just can't.

As a BW who has been married for almost 25 yrs whose WH left to live with the OW. I am disgusted by what you are saying. This man has lied to you and re-wrote his marital history. My WH has done the same thing with his OW, first he was un-happpy the last year then it went ot 3 yrs now its 5 yrs. Come on girl think about this if he really was that unhappy why didn't he walk 5 yrs ago?

Thats the same question I asked my WH, why didn't you leave then? His answer was a blank stare at me, he had no answer and you know why? Because there is none. He has done nothing but lie to me and the OW.

He has gone back and forth between us for the last 11 months, only difference between her and I is I knew the truth she didn't. She like you believed all he said and she was stupid enough to believe he was being faithful to her. Well guess what wrong answer, he was not being faithful to her.

Do you really believe that he is being honest with you about his relationship with his wife? I don't think so , he sounds like my WH a cake eater.... He wants you both .... So what are yo going to do once you find out the truth are ya gonna continue to hang on like my WH'S OW??? Are you that deperate you need to hang on to someone who is not avaliable and still has a family?

Smartest thing you can do is walk away and forget this married man who has a wife already. You are doing nothing but making yourself an immoral person. No amount of justifying or believing his lies will ever make it right.

What self-respecting woman would allow herself to be with a married man? You are young and there are many single men in this world, getout of someone elses marriage. You have no right to be there......


Hurting

All wayward spouses lie to their affair partners about the state of their marriage. They all lie about how "terrible" it is. It is how they justify the affair and keep the OP around to service them.

allsfair, everything your affair partner told you is the same stuff we hear on here every day. He just said it to keep you in place. They are all lies.

I second not-so-u-neak's suggestion that you contact the wife yourself. Don't take our word for it. You will likely find out that everything is a lie, even the so called "stalled divorce - for business reasons." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> There is NO divorce and it has never even been discussed. He is going home at night and acting like normal. The only difference now is that he saves himself the money of paying a prostitute.

Justuss, please delete this thread. Trolls have nothing to offer anyone.


*********sorry Longhorn, I didn't see it in time.********JustUss*********

Have you thought about where your MM will be if you end up pregnant? Have you considered the age difference and life experience differences? Starting out a marrige with a man fresh out of a divorce is difficult enough but add to it that you started your M with cheating and dishonesty. It really does not bode well for your future.

Expose this affair to his wife. That's how you'll find out if your relationship with MM has any legitimacy at all. You admit your information comes from the MM. It's tainted by his perspective. Check his story.

If you believe him...why would you be afraid to do that? If you had "nothing to do with this", and the guy is separated and telling you the truth...what's the hold-up? Talk to his wife.


What makes you think he's the only one? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Being dismissive won't change the truth. You can dismiss every member of this forum as a "bitter BS", but you'll still be in the same situation as before...no closer to real answers.

Your situation isn't any different than any other OWs. There's nothing unique about it.

If you're up for it, AF, you may want to read this thread, begun by an OW who married her affair partner. It's got some Christian content, but it's a very good thread, I think...

Views about marriage and remarriage

And I second, third, or fourth what Neak suggested: Expose to the wife... talk to her... find out the TRUTH... before it is too late.

I mentioned this on another thread..and here is a prime shining example.

A lack of boundaries with regard to who is and is not an *appropriate* partner to *begin* a relationship with.

So often in these situations the OP truly has the belief that THEIR relationship with the WS is the legitimate one.

All facts to the contrary are irrelevent and disregarded.

You could hold a stack of information under this young womans nose..and she would not be moved by it.

When she looks at the ugly truths..she is blinded by the beauty of her dreams distorting them.

Everything has an explanation, rationalization, justification.

You see..affairs may have similarities ..in fact she will bear witness to this..but *their* situation is different and unique. Real. It is his marriage that is not real..and was not prior to her arrival in the equation..she has it on good authority [smiles sadly].

So it has taken five years for this man to leave his wife..and he still hasn't done it.

Well, they own a business..they have customers..they have..expectations..and ..stuff.

There will always be more stuff.

The fact that she sees the situation AS a competition suggests that she KNOWS somewhere..somewhere however buried..that what she is doing is wrong.

The trouble is that although she knows it is wrong..she doesn't care..she has been promised her *prize* and she wants it.

I'm sorry to say that there will be nothing to deter her from this path she has chosen..nothing short of experiencing the loss she believes she is young enough to absorb the impact of and she is willing to take the "risk" because she believes that impact will never come. She may acknowledge the possibility at an intellectual level..but she does not believe it.

It is a very different thing to acknowledge that there are bears in the woods..and to find yourself standing helpless before one.

Unfortunately the best I can offer her..is sympathy that she has allowed herself to be so deceived by herself, her desires, her sense of entitlement, and this man..and sincere hope that the seed for knowledge of healthy relationship dynamics has been placed at least at a surface level..it will likely be driven deep by pain for her as it has for all here.

At that time we can extend warm welcome, for now she is one of the dangerous lost. Slashing and burning and untouchable because of it..though the effort is in vain.

Dear, if you call being used for sexual purposes in an affair with you to be "RESPECT" you have a strange idea of what constitutes "respect." There is nothing "respectful" about being used as piece of [censored] and then tossing you aside.

And you will be tossed aside, let me assure you. You will be left empty handed when he moves on.

This is why I say you should be charging for your services. At least a PROSTITUTE is smart enough to be left with something TANGIBLE, you will be left with NOTHING when he done with you. He has no committment to you, no nothing.

You are just being used, dear. He has no intention whatsoever of leaving his wife. He will move on when he gets tired of you to the next one.

Don't put out for free! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just think how silly it would be to imagine that a marriage with someone who CONDONES lying, adultery and FRAUD would be?

Now, wouldn't that be a fool's mission to beleive that any marriage could be successful that included dishonesty and unfaithfulness?

AF... i can't help myself but to jump into to this although i don't usually ....i try to keep to myself.

first let me say i am not going to bash you....and in posting this...i feel exactly the way i do when i am trying to talk to my WH...it isn't going to do any good because...you hear it but your not really listening.

how can you say he respects you? His wife probably thought or thinks he respected her too. but not going in to all that...

the point i want to make is...my H adored and still to an extent adores me...can't let go of me. doesn't want to. He can't live without me...he is with me every day and his A is dying...i see it....God has guided me every step.

In the beginning...H told OW and his friends and family how horrid i was...made up crap about me....i spoke to OW and she told me the things H told her that were VERY untrue and she thought/thinks he and i had a terrible, awful M.

simply NOT true. they LIE. LIE, LIE, and LIE more. they lie so much...they don't even remember what they say. eventually you will start to see...it will be hard to cover after some time.

understand this OW thinks our M is dead. she has NO idea. No clue. my dear....what is true is their A is dying. the fantasy and fun...is dying. My H is missing his family, he misses me his W, misses being with our friends.

No M is perfect and all hit hard times. still yet...God joined them and made them one. they are still M in God's eyes and what you have with this man is considered sin. God doesn't bless sin. I'm not trying to preach to you dear. i am trying to help you see and understand...

he is still married. like it or not...you are the OW, and she is his wife.

pray about this. God bless you.

Jaysmom

Awesome post, Noodle. You're right, of course. People have to come to their own realizations sometimes. Nothing anyone here says is going to be effective in helping her do that.

You can either see the bear or you can't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />




(I'm out. I've got better things to do today that aren't a waste of time.)

AF,

I'm curious why you posted this message here, at MB, where you say you have been reading and absorbing... you had to have known that you're a current OW... you had to have known that your thread would hurt (pierce, devistate) a current BS... you had to have known it would rile up the troops, which is made up of people who, for the most part, have dealt with infidelity (and I was a BS before I was a WS, so I can totally appreciate the horror of the BS when they read this)...

What do you honestly expect from us?

you'll get more support on another site it is www.gloryb.com check out the pink board.

Here, at MB, we are BUILDING MARRIAGES- notice the titel of the web site???

We are not promoting adultry or divorce.

And how in the world when you saw your mother hurt by adultry can you lower yourself to commit something so awful yourself.

disgusting

say he does divorce and marry you how long do you think he'll be faithful?

The other thing I want to add, I know my parents divorce, they however are on good terms and have stayed a unit as far as parenting me and my siblings go.

If I did marry my SO the fact that it would be his 2nd marriage would mean WE would take adequate steps to protect our marriage from hurt - we've both BTDT.

And Melody all that **** about my decision making skills leading me to pick the wrong person is just that - ****! Dr H wouldn't advise you to COMPETE with the OP if he didn't think there was nothing to worry about! And you WOULDN'T be fighting for your S if you didn't think they were great people!

What's that saying? All the good ones are taken? If my SO W wasn't smart enough to see he was a good one, treated him badly and filed for divorce why should I turn my nose on him if I think we have a chance?


2Long, how old were you when you got married? Most of the people on this board married in their mid 20s - MY AGE, so did my SO. Are you telling me NON of you knew what true love was when you married? Don't talk soft please. Did you all date your partner's for 10 years before marrying them? I'm sure for a lot of you it was a year or two years (I don't believe in cohabiting so I wouldn't have kids and blah blah for 50 years before getting married). So why should I not asssess my relationship after 7 months for it's validity? I should be "having fun and playing" at my age?


BTW, thanks for a slightly more respectful attitude I'm seeing a few people post with for now.

You don't have to read this. I am keeping updates for myself.

PS. BS with all due respect, you might find some stuff in here more useful than you think at the moment.

PSS. Don't get me wrong, if my H ever cheated on me while I was fully a part of the M, I would kill the OW and then come to work the marriage out with him. But I'd DO MY BEST to be the W of any man's dreams. No OW would find it a joke breaking up my family. I just wouldn't give up that easy.

PSSS. I may be in the fog as well, but I know the way out is putting our relationship back on the right track. And I know it's in my best interest to do this.

Allsfair, i fear you are going to be one of those who has to graduate from the school of hard knocks before the left brain ever kicks in. But even so, why not take our advice and give the mean ole WIFE a call and compare notes? Since you know that her husband is a liar, it might be helpful to get the scoop from someone who is NOT a demonstrated liar.

Of course, it might mean that your boy would dump you like a hot potato [which I suspect he will] but you seem pretty confident that he will choose you, so why not take the risk?

Cuz I just betcha there is NO "divorce," no nothing. Likely, he made the story up so you would keep putting out.

Give the woman a call!

After all, you are "young" and can afford "risks," right? Are you secure enough in his "committment" to you to make that call? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />