Dear Banyak,

Thank you for all your encouragement, it came at a good time this morning. I spoke with husband briefly we are getting ready to prepare our house for sale and I was going to bring some sample tiles home and we had mentioned spending a little time together. I was looking forward to it...stupid me. He called and told me one of his business associates had invited him up to Napa at the resort where a lot happened with OW. She's not there and his is visiting a guy friend but still.. ouch. I told him that just hearing the name of that resort was traumatic for me and he said a lot happened at... and he named another 5 start resort in Cabo San Lucas... not that I didn't already know that but it was just painful for him to bring it up. As soon as I got off the phone I wept and felt like the knife had been driven in again. I was stupid and asked him why don't we just go away and he said I'm not ready for that right now and there is no need for us to see each other. OUCH! I know I set myself up for that one. I know you can't fix things with a numb alcoholic but I just remember who he was and he had such a good heart and did so many things right for so many years, it's like he completely fell out of love with me and doesn't miss me at all. He says I will always have feelings for you.... I hate that line. YUCK, it just feels YUCK! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


You are 100% on the money and I guess I just need to be reminded. I know I set myself up sometimes by putting myself out there and talking about my feelings. I haven't done the feeling talk in a while and then I broke down and said some stuff lastnight and this morning. I don't think he was being vindictive when he said that, he just thinks he's being totally honest; sometimes though it is better not to say anything and he has not learned that. He is now taking the opposite track and says because he lied so much for the past two years he is just saying the truth more often.

I know my boundaries need to be much firmer you are right and I know I really need to sit down, and right out what I need to do. I also need to go to Alanon, I know I do!! I think fear has kept me from walking in the room. I'm not sure why, I have feared so much lately, I think the fear and the grief have paralyzed me from doing what I need to do to move forward and really find peace, happiness and hopefully reconciliation down the road.

I will go to an Alanon meeting. Thank you for the story you linked me to... it was very encouraging. I really appreciate all your encouraging kind words. They mean so much right now.

Take care
RH

Hi RH,

I'm glad to help RH, truly.

Try to remember that you are not alone in your feelings. Everyone here knows what that blade in the heart is like.

What you experienced today when you talked to your H was what we call 'triggers'. People, places and things that remind us of the A.
It can be helpful to make a list of the triggers that affect you, then make a point of taking a break from all mention of them for a time, so that you can sort out your feelings. You can choose to do this on your own, or ask your H to do it as well if you think he'd cooperate.

Be sure to set a time limit on the break so that you don't end up in limbo, or make him think he should stop being honest all together.

I have to say that your H is doing a good thing by making the effort to be totally honest. Congratulations to you for recognizing that fact!

I know it's painful to hear the things he says, but he is making progress with the effort. Over time he will learn to use tact in conjunction with his honesty and it will get easier to deal with. Just be patient with his efforts, even praise them. Remember...make the right things easy, and the wrong things difficult.

I also wanted to talk a bit about the fear you mentioned with regards to walking into an Al-Anon room. Now here's a point I can relate to!

The first few meetings I intended to go to were a complete bust. I drove to the meeting place, but couldn't find the courage to get out of the vehicle and walk in. It actually took 4 tries before I ever made it through the doors, and even then my higher power was working on my behalf.

It happened like this...

I was sitting in the vehicle 5 minutes to meeting time getting ready to drive away, when someone passed by on the sidewalk in front of me. She smiled and waved, so I waved back. She walked up to my window and asked if I was looking for the meeting. I said I wasn't sure. She laughed and said "Well, you're sure now!" and opened my door. I was so stunned by what she did that I followed her into the church where the meeting was held - what else could I do?

I know if it wasn't for that woman I wouldn't have learned what I did that day, and I will be forever grateful.

I hope you can get past your fears and 'take your body to a meeting'.

If that prospect seems too difficult today I'd like to offer a couple of choices that may be a little easier for you.

The first is to call the Al-Anon office (listed in the phone book...if not AA can refer you). When you call ask that they have an Al-Anon member in your area call you back.

There are members that volunteer to have their names on a contact list just for that purpose - so please don't feel you're imposing on anyone.

A female will call you back and talk about the program and whatever other information you'd like. This may help you get over the hurdle of 'first contact'.

The other is for you and I to get together on the phone. I'd be happy to talk with you about the program or just offer support. I know it sounds strange to have a complete stranger from a website offer to talk to you on the phone...but someone did the same for me when I first joined this site and she and her H played a huge role in the first stages of recovery for my H and I.

If you'd like to try it I'll send you a private message with my contact info...just let me know. If you'd rather not, I completely understand and certainly won't take any offense.

One last thing...when I had been in Al-Anon for a while I went for a coffee with my sponsor. That day I told her all the details of my reasons for joining Al-Anon. We talked about my husbands alcoholism and his affair. As it turned out my sponsor's H had an affair as well.
As I attended more meetings and got to know more members I learned that a few of the people I met had experienced similar problems in their marriages.

In Al-Anon I not only found support for the alcoholism, but support for dealing with an A. Much more than I barganed for I can tell you that!

You are not alone RH...all you have to do is reach out.

Don't let the fear stop you!

Thoughts and prayers,
A.

I have so many triggers, that is what is so awful about it. They had all kinds of music they listened to together, found the CD's in his car and so now I can't even go to the grocery store and listen to music without getting upset. Of course just about anything related to his work bothers me because he is in the golf/resort business; driving by hotels stresses me and the list goes on and on. I know I sound narotic and it's probably one of those things I have to work through own my own. I don't think my WH is even capable of helping with that at least not yet.

He is just to insensitive right now. He abandoned me so many times over the last two years not just emotionally but physically always going away and not just on business but lesiure time without me, so I have huge abandonment issues now. In fact the day he left to separate from me was probably one of the worse days because he spilled all the terrible news of the affair(s) and then to add insult to injury left again. I just through myself on the floor and cried out to God to take me because I was so weary of being left alone, never experienced that kind of intense pain just a deep deep soul wound.

Anyway I do understand what you are saying, I just have so many triggers I think I would have to go away somewhere to try and process. Thank you for your encouragement about Alanon. My sister is willing to go with me... she is having struggles in her own marriage with an alcoholic spouse so it might be good for us to walk through the doors together. What do you think?



That is such a kind offer and I would love to talk with you just for the support alone would be great. I believe having someone to talk to who has been through it and come out okay on the other side with their spouse is a huge huge encouragement. I pray everyday to God for my husbands recovery and for the reconciliation of our marriage and I do journal and see prayers answered.... some really big ones actually over the last year. I believe he also puts people in our lives to help guide us along the journey to impart wisdom and see that their is light at the end of the tunnel and you certainly have been that encouragement so yes I would love to talk with you. Thank You! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi RH,

I'm afraid I got wordy on another thread and now find it to be terribly late.

I tried to send you a PM, but it's disabled in my profile. I've tinkered around a bit and it's still not working so why don't you send me an e-mail with your phone number and convenient times to call. (poudrier@telus.net). Be sure to let me know where you live so I can gauge if there's any time difference. (I'm mountain standard I believe)

My Sunday has a fair bit going on, but I'm sure I can find time to touch base with you if you don't mind busy boys in the background!

If Sunday is a bad day for you I work from home when the kids are at school during the week, so we can set something up for daytime, or evenings...whatever is best for you.

I'm looking forward to talking with you!

Take care,
A.

Hi Folks -

My FWH has been in rehab last 28 days he got out on Wed, the 28th. It's been a rough go. He's wanted to do this all on his own and didn't want me at the weekend family program, until the last weekend because counselor advised him to have me there.

He looks great.. healthy, tan, and has been working out a lot so body looks great.

Tough part is he has stated he is working on his recovery and does not want any kind of affection from me at all.. We have been intimate on two occasions, more because I initiated it but even that he doesn't really seem that into. Gosh I feel like a heel. I have kept myself attractive and slim, always wearing nice outfits and have the summer tan... don't know what else to do. He does that clinging to his side of the bed thing like I have the plague. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm just plain getting ignored here. He goes off to AA meetings and to work-out and pretty much doesn't want to spend anytime with me. He does not want to talk or go to counseling at this time. The counselors did tell me that when they first get out of rehab, you can't really have any expectations whatsoever. OUCH.. really hard I'm feeling pretty rejected.. on top of what happened over the last two years.

I'm still very attracted to him and would love to throw my arms around him and hug and kiss him, but right now just about anything I say he gives me kind of a look, like I am so annoying. We have agreed not to talk about the "us part" because he doesn't really want to. I'm waiting till he gets a little further along in the 12 steps to try and get on a deeper level. He says this is a really selfish program and it's about him and his recovery, but I understand that it is ultimately a selfless program, he just isn't there yet.

He's very different sober, more cold then he was drunk to be honest. Anyway I have a list of 180's I'm trying which I have copied here but I'm really struggling. I'm a very affectionate person and it is really hard for me to be the opposite of what comes naturally to me. If anyone has any suggestions for better 180's or things I could do differently to get his attention or help him to find me interesting again please advise. For many years he was so affectionate and attracted to me so this is really hard.

Thank you
RH

My 180's


No Frequent phone calls when he is out (this one is a tough one for me I still have a lot of trust issues)

Pleading my case when he says he doesn’t know if he wants to be married... he hasn't said this in a while and did say he wants to go to counseling at some point so it's kind of been left there for now

Pointing out the good of the past in our marriage

no card giving letter writing

No Encouraging talk about the Future (hard for me I tend to want to go there is this bad?)

No Soliciting help from family members

No Asking for reassurances

I'm not sure but should I not even ask him if he wants to go on a hike or something on the weekends??

No Spying (I found myself doing that yesterday because he works out and goes to AA in the town that OW lives in)

Working on my business

Taking horseback riding lessons

I know letting go and not asking about there whereabouts can make it seem that you care less about what they are doing but it is so hard to let go. Any suggestions on how I could make myself more exciting to him, would be much appreciated. Also I just have a hard time with letting go in general, does anyone have any suggestions on practices you can do to make this easier. Just really struggling with that one.

yes

this is NORMAL

do not take his rejection as a rejection of YOU, the woman

understand it as an acceptance that he is still not available for intimacy (with ANYONE) because he is emotionally anxious

His nasty mood is his external expression of his internal environment

step away when he is like that

go self-soothe

Pep

stop doing this for this reason .... he is filled with anxiety that craves alcohol in order to feel smoothed over....

He is NOT READY to be attracted to you ...

Hunny

I WAS you 10 years ago ....

here's my very BEST advice

.'.'.'.'

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[color:"red"] RELAX [/color]

Pep -

Thank you, it's good to talk to someone who has been through it. Glad to hear this isn't out of the norm, just like other people say living with an alien for now. He did say the other day, his lack of affection has nothing to do with me, and I thank you for putting that in perspective that he is not available for intimacy with anyone, because he is emotianlly anxious that makes perfect sense.


His aloof mood is pretty much perpetual, so I think I will be doing a lot of taking care of me and self-soothing for now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If I may ask how long did your hubby stay in this mode? Did he act in the same type of ways?

Thanks,
RH

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



He was moody for at least 6 months .... and here is what I did wrong...

I kept looking AT HIS MOOD as an indicator of how I should feel that day ...

please allow me to save you some time

be happy no matter what his mood is

YOUR disease is this

you reach into him to find parts of you that are not inside of him ...

THIS is what spouses of the drunks do best ~~~> focus & fix others so we don't have to fix ourselves

*thwack*

2X4 to the head !!!!

rub it & it will stop smarting faster

Here's the real kicker ~~~> he needs to find his happiness without you before he can find happiness with you

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are right on all counts... I am a fixer that classic codependent thing. I do realize I can't "fix him" and I have really tried to back off in that regard, but his moods do affect me and you are right I just need to go on about my day and feel happy. I think fear of the unknown sometimes keeps me from living in the moment and accepting the good pieces such as he is home, that at some point he said he would go to counseling with me, but instead I project and worry about the worse case scenarios like what if he just decides he doesn't want to be with me.

I realize I just need to accept what is the reality for now and there is some good stuff and just work on myself.

He just hasn't learned tact in the way he says things to me so sometimes he is just plain hurtful and that seems to take me out emotionally for a day. I haven't quite learned how to not react to things he says that are unkind or hurtful. I have a lot to learn about loving detachment and just working on me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

H says "biting remark"

You say "Ouch ... that one stung. Did you mean to or was it accidental?"

H says "accidental"

You say "OK ... I'm going our for some (whatever) ... can I bring you anything?"

or H says "I meant to sting you"

You say "Well, I guess there is more to discuss. Let's do it in ways that don't punch each other in the gut. OK?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You can always ask him this.... whenever you don't know what else to say

"Is there anything I can do for you today?"

also another good "stand-by" is ... "Are you hurting? ... because you've been unkind toward me & that usually means you are hurting."

I sometimes say "Is this a good time to leave you alone?"

Pep

You know I've tried to do the nice thing and he told me that I cottle him and he hates it. I feel like no matter what I do or say right now it's wrong wrong wrong. Actually I've been feeling like that for two years. SO, I try to give him space and be kind and loving but not to in his face right now. He doesn't ever smile either. I mean I haven't seen a genuine smile on this man since I don't know when. Is that normal?? He's just in his own head right now I guess.

I like that and will remember it.

Help I'm feeling horrible today!

Lastnight found cell phone bill, FWH had 8 minute call with OW while he was in rehab on 6/20. Ouch did finally ask him this morning what the conversation was about he said business (not buying that) and that he doesn't have unresolved feelings for her anymore and that she would not be a problem when he goes back to his job. I asked if he would write a closure letter to her for me and he said I would do it for myself more than for you. It looks like they only talked once and she never called him, but I feel awful because he was so angry with me for asking. He said you really know how to start the day off right for someone. We had agreed also that until he is ready we would not bring up affection/sex. I brought it up again and he got really mad.

I know stupid on my part, but I know he's interested in SF, as I find evidence of him taking care of himself, but just not interested with me. I have felt so rejected for two years and now I have so many triggers that set me off.

He is threatning to get a new cell phone so that I can't look at the bill and to go to a sober living house because he says I stress him out to much and that is what his counselor said he should do in the first place. He said she advised that he shouldn't have to deal with my questions and stuff right when he's trying to stay sober.

I have been trying to keep things nice, peaceful here and not go down the Affair talk road or ask about his feelings, but a few things have come up. The affair part is just still so unresolved and he is not ready for counseling yet, to process through it.

Help any encouraging thoughts, I cried a little in front of him, not so much blubbering but I don't usually do that. Just looked weak and needy and pathetic and I feel awful.

I really want to give him over to God detach and let go. I'm still on step 1 of the 12 steps and really struggling with letting go because of all my triggers. Please any prayers are much appreciated I just feel like a bad person today and that I'm not strong enough or can't say or do things right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

He won't wear his wedding band and says he doens't know if he will put it back on. I saw some of his notes from rehab, yes I snooped and he said my impact letter to him of how his drinking affected me was predictable and did not affect him emotionally! One of the things they had him right down was what makes him feel good and the first on the list was sf. I guess just not with me. He also noted that he hadn't talked to me in 3 days and he was fine with that.

He has really detached from me but I can't seem to detach from him and I hate myself for that. I still really love this man and my strong feelings for him are conflicting with my detachemnt and getting healthy on my own. Lord I'm a mess... HELP!

Prepare your Plan B

don't discuss it

just get ducks lined up ready to launch

I'll post a link in just a second

YOU, my dear, need a PLAN

not an emotional meltdown

and until you are ready to launch Plan B

you do a stellar Plan A

and be the wife he will miss terribly if Plan B comes to pass

give him EVERY reason to miss you if you go away

Pep

offer to help him move into the sober living house of his choice

if

he thinks that is what is best for his sanity & sobriety & serenity & surrender

instead of standing in front of the door sobbing

open it and smile

"OK sweetie. If you think a sober living arrangement is best for you right now, so do I."

YOU cannot add stress to this situation & expect success hunny ~~~> Plan B opportunity is a'knockin'

and it is a GOOD thing for YOU to learn how to open the door & set him free

you don't want a prisoner

you want a husband

Pep

stop talking like a girl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He's UNavailable for INTIMACY

but he can still [censored] for stress reduction

turn OFF your "it's all about me" recording in your head

guess what?

It is NOT about you

he's struggling with a huge gorilla on his back with his Alcoholism ... (not just a little monkey)

open the door

set him free to either grow up or not

Pep

Okay -

As far as plan B, I'm not sure if it's time for that yet... He insists he doens't have feelings for OW, but I don't know. I asked him what if you go back to work and she wants you back and he said "that is not an option". He has also said I don't give a sh1tt about her. (exucuse the french). So what is all this? What was that phone call about? I will probably never know, one person I talked to this morning said he was so pissed at me because he got caught and that the phone call may have been some kind of closure thing the counselor at rehab suggested but I don't know.


I know I need to turn off the it's about me recording in my head, just hard not to take it all personally, even though in my head I know logically what your saying is true and correct. My heart says ouch it's me, somethings wrong with me.

I think he sees me as needy and pathetic, I asked him if we could give it a week and I would not ask about the intimacy/affection deal. At the same time I said I would understand if he felt like he needed to go to sober living, but I know he knows I would rather he be here.

What things can I do to appear stronger and at the same time the wife that he wouldn't want to live without? Especially when he is trying to stay sober and hardly seems to notice me except for yesterday in my little bikini... I saw him look. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


I'm having trouble with opening the cage door and leaving it open, I think I open and then slam it shut again.... like this morning I said "it would help me if you could where your wedding band again when you go back to work and when you have business meetings with other woman". He kind of said yeh yeh okay, but I'm not sure if he was just blowing me off or not. He seems to know he has this power over me and I hate it.

I don't want him to have that power but I'm struggling with what that looks like to release him when I still don't fully trust him.

Step 1 of the 12 steps is recongnizing we are powerless, I know I'm powerless, but why can't I get off step 1. I still want to spy on him and things instead of just giving up control.

Get Plan B ready ~anyway~

like insurance

if disaster strikes

you are all lined up to launch

give me 3 good LOGICAL reasons why your should not get plan B ready & "hold the launch"

..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />