because he needs to be released in order to stay sober

stop being his Mommie

that's why

*thwack*

(who says I don't 2X4 the betrayed ???)

I hear you on all counts and can't give any reason why I shouldn't come up with a Plan B other than it's mentally painful to go there.

The ~TOP TEN~ reasons why we stay married to a drunk

1. we love him/her

2. we like to be in charge

3. we suspect we can change others by our will

4. we enjoy being the 'good' one in the relationship

5. we get to tell our story to others & enjoy their sympathy

6. we have a reliable cause outside of ourselves that our life falling apart

7. we can stay angry and tell ourselves why

8. we can enjoy the usually dynamic & fun-loving personality of the sober drunk spouse

9. we can manipulate our spouse using their guilt & shame

10. we can dismiss their feelings, opinions and motives easily .... because they're drunk


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When you get to recovery work with your H

ASK ME about the POJA problem

You know, there is NO POJA with a drunk .... and when he is sober .... you must submit to POJA

It's hard as heck

Pep

When you recover with a sober husband ... YOU will have to make adjustments because there will be

TWO ADULTS in the marriage ... not just you !!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Pep

RH:

My husband did a double stint at rehab (two months), and then four months in a half-way house. If he had not, I don't think he would have kept sober. And I'm quite sure that I would have driven both him and myself crazy.

When he was in the half-way house, I saw him once a week for a few hours. That was about as much positive, non-lovebusting time as I could manage then.

Let him go to the sober house. In fact, encourage it. And use the time while he is there to attend your 90 in 90 at Al-Anon and to do twice a week counseling.

It will be the best thing you ever do for yourself, or for him.

Tru

Pep, Trubluz -

I'm going to Alanon now and working on Step 2, and giving my feelings of trying to control where he is and what he's doing over to God. Really hard, but I'm trying to live in the moment and for this day and focus on me, do the stuff that builds me up and creates inner strength etc.

I finally feel like I'm getting to a point where I can really work on me.. and that has only been in the last few days. It's been drilled into my brain for about a year this is what I need to do, but it's taken me a long time to accept and really start to work on it and based on some of the things I've gleaned and journaled from this board and some things my sponsor and others said, it's finally clicking for me.

Like this morning he was his ugly self and very unkind, (if I even walk into the room and say anything he can be unkind) but I did not become to reactive other than to let him know he was being disrespectful and I had a good day... usually I'm devestated. Someone asked me yesterday what do you like about your FWH other then the fact he is really good looking (i know superficial) and I could not come up with one darn thing. I love him but I really don't like him right now.

This morning as usual he struts around with his tan and his six pack abs and no shirt on and I saw straight past all that right to what was on the inside and it wasn't very pretty, kind of ugly really and for the first time I felt like he didn't have control over me. I've always been so crazy about him but he didn't make me melt this time, I told him he was nasty and disrespectful and that if he was going to treat me this way he should live somewhere else, and he said he was working on it and I shrugged and walked away. Didn't bargain, beg or plead and it felt really good. ;-)

I think the hardest thing for me right now is letting go and not wanting to call him to find out where he is and what he is doing. I know normally we would be in Plan A but because he's in recovery and simply not wanting to be held accountable and not ready for relationship recovery, I have no choice but to place him in God's hands. I know best hands he could be in anyway. I tell you though that man could really use an a$$ whippin, he is just downright disrespectful, mean-spirited, just how he was treating me during the affair. He still doesn't make good choices as women gravitate toward him, so one has already sent him a card with love, hugs and kisses on it from rehab. Another calling him for help that was also from rehab and I had to listen to that irritating phone conversation for 30 minutes and today he is at lunch with a former female co-worker friend, because he says she may have a new job prospect for him..... whatever, I don't even try to control it anymore but he just still makes unwise and bad choices... it's how he got into trouble in the first place.

On a happy note, I start Dressage (riding lessons) on Friday morning. I'm really excited about that, horses give me so much peace and I just love them. Actually I'm just generally crazy about all fuzzy, or feathered animals, but horses are so majestic and wonderful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'll bite what is POJA??

Thanks, going to an alanon meeting now...
RH

Recovering,

Boy I know I am going to be skulled for this one but here it goes. (please do not hit me about the head and face I am too pretty for that.)

One of the most important factors in a persons recovery from alcohol is a supportive spouse.

I would recommend to leave the recovery of your M, your feelings about the A, etc on the backburner.

Let him deal with his recovery from alcohol take priority.

The less stress from you the better. I know it is hard I have been there.

I know the feeling I have been thre. My FWW just got her 6 month chip on Saturday. Tough six months but at least she is sober.

If you are supportive it will be helpful.

HL -

I agree with you and I have backburnered our marriage recovery until he is farther along in his sobriety, per his request. I know he is at the baby stages of his recovery and needsd tons of support and I'm trying to do just that... no pressure about marriage counseling, or talk about the A. I just support him in anyway I can on his recovery and also work on mine in Alanon.

I'm seeing little signs of improvement here and there and when he does something unkind, I try not to react. When I just remove myself from the room, of late he usually comes back to me and trys to make ammends in his own kind of way, but I do see improvement and thats a good thing.

He is going back to work this week, and yes the OW is there, but he verbalizes now that he realizes she was not a good person and that it is over and that he no longer has feelings for her. There are so many rumors at their work place about the two of them now, that I don't think it makes jumping back into that to appealing. They are both ashamed and guilty I imagine. He also said he is willing to have honesty and accountability with me and work on a list of things that would make me feel more comfortable when he is at work. I guess it's just a process we shall see how that goes.

Anyway he goes to AA everday and he is trying to find a sponsor and make good choices so I'm putting it in God's hands and trusting for ultimately a positive outcome.

Glad your wife got her six-month chip, it sounds like things are improving for you and thats great! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks
RH

Okay Pep -

I'm up for the challenge...

1. I am certain that all my hope is in God and what his will is for my life

2. I look forward to weekly riding lessons because it's a great outlet for me, good exercise and gives me a lot of peace and puts my mind at ease

3. I'm excited that my business is growing and that I'm finding new clients.

4. I'm grateful for all that I'm learning from my sponsor and how wise and compassionate she is.

5. I'm learning about detachment with love and what that looks like in my daily living.

6. I still need to find a church family.. haven't worked on that as much as I need to.

7. One things all this experience has taught me is how much God loves us and how merciful he is, so many prayers have been answered and he really does have my best interest at heart and I'm grateful for how much closer my relationship with God is for all I have been through.

8. I'm working on step 2 and he is restoring me to sanity.

9. Recognizing I do not have control over anyone but myself and not trying to manipulate or control others to keep myself from feeling pain

10. I'm learning to live and let live... difficult and I have a long way to go but I'm learning

Well I'm just in the baby stages of my recovery really and I realzie it's a long process, but I'm finally seeing how unmanageable my life had become.

BTW - You never told me what POJA was??

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

RH

[color:"red"] awesome !!!! [/color]

POJA

policy of joint agreement

one of Harley's watermark concepts

'cept ... you cannot POJA a marriage when there is an active addiction problem

I will make some links

.... YOU did great sistah !<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Hi Pep -

Thanks, that writing down 10 things about my own recovery actually helped me to see the progress and I decided to copy it into my journal.

You are right that POJA one is difficult, but I see positive signs and little steps that he will be willing to work at that with me when he is a little farther along in his 12 step process.

Right now he thinks that the recovery process is a selfish one and that it is all about him, but as my sponsor said by Step 3 he will come to terms that ultimately it is a "selfless program" and he is going to have to see beyond his own nose.

In the meantime since he first got home, I'm learning how to be okay for now with the lack of affection and not take it personally and be at peace with myself. I continue to be loving and kind but as you said to me early on in this thread, I try not to let him serve me up bullsh11t as an appetizer and I remove myself from the room and don't engage when he is being unkind or unthoughtful in the things he says.

As one person said to me just because he's in recovery doesn't give him the right to be an [censored]. Excuse the French... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

RH,

I like the 10 things.

I will tell you this, just becuase they stop dringking does not give them the proper coping mechanisms.

My FWW hasn't had a drink and I thought our M would be better but it hasn't really progressed.

It is funny you mentioned the third step well that is where my wife is right now.

She hasn't done the work on it yet.

I just want to warn you not to get your hopes up that now that he has stopped drinking that at a certain point your M's recovery will just start becoming easy. It won't

Tomorrow my FWW has a womens meeting, I am actually babysitting for another woman in her group so she can go. Mondays are very stressfull for the non alcoholic, ME.

Just keep working on yourself.

I ordered Co Dependant no more I hear it is very good for people who have lived with alcoholics.

I hope you are doing well. Keep your head up.

I will tell you one thing as I read this board sometimes I wonder why we are here as BS's and not FWS.

Hi folks!

Just had to jump in and clarify...(ya know... being my usual self!)

Step 3 is where we make a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God AS WE UNDERSTAND HIM.

Step 4 is about taking personal inventory and where we begin to see the resentments we've been hauling around as baggage. Once we take a look at these resentments and what the emotional motivations/causes for them are we begin to see past our own noses.

Whether or not a step 4 (followed quickly by 5 & 6) contributes to healthier relationships for the alcoholic depends on the person themselves. For some it's an awakening, and for others it isn't. I'm simply of the mind that working on maritial issues is easier once the addict reaches this point because they've let go of so many resentments that it's easier to move forward.

Sometimes it makes things better...sometimes it makes things different.

Either way I consider it progress.

Well folks -

It's been a while since I have been to the board. Husband and I have been living home together for about two months since he got out of recovery.

It has been a rocky road.

This is the latest and just want some feedback here. FWH went back to work a couple weeks out of recovery. OW still works there with him... ouch!! I told him when he went back I didn't agree with it but I would support him because I know how important his job is to him.

This has proved to be very difficult as I have major trust issues. Husband had been going to AA almost everyday except for the last two he came home from work very late last night due to meetings, but normally he has been going.

Things that are proving difficult for me are that he has to be MOD (manager on duty) for the lodge portion of the golf course he works at on certain weekends. OW is director of rooms which means they have to have contact because of the nature of the business. He does communicate where he is and what he is doing when I ask and he insist that he has absolutely no interest in her but still very hard.

I had a trigger this morning because he got home late last night and that is not easy for me and then this morning when I called him on his way to work he was on another call. He use to leave and call OW so I got a little panicky but he said that he was talking to a member from the golf course.

Things he has told me:
that I'm wasting my time even asking about OW because he just won't go there again and as far as he knows she's dating OP's.
He also told me as far as AA that he doesn't really think you need a sponsor and that you can stay sober without one, he says he doesn't think you need to read the book either.(I guess he's referring to the big book of AA).
He said he thought he could control drinking wine just not the hard stuff. SCARY! He said at the same time he new he wasn't ready to try anything though.

I think he is a dry drunk to some degree but he doesn't see it that way because he thinks his behavior is different now that he is sober but he is still emotionally unavailable. We only have sex if I initiate it and then he doesn't really touch me or kiss me anymore, it's still weird that way. We have only gone out together twice in the two months he's been home and he still has really angry outburst with me especially when I ask about OW, which I mostly try not to do. Other day there were some back and forth calls with her when he was MOD on his cell phone call log. Granted they were very short calls but still a trigger for me.

I try to do the 180's but I'm inconsistent with it because of my trust issues and the fact that he still has to be around OW. It just really hurts. We agreed to start counseling when I get back from a trip I'm going on with my cousin and a trip he goes on for business to Hawaii, so that puts us in the early October time frame for MC.

It's just really hard and I don't know what to make of it, I tell myself just to trust God and let him work it out, but I find myself checking up; but I will say I have checked the OW's house unbeknownst to my FWH at different times of the day and night and never found anything shady going on. FWH does try to get right back to me when I call, but he can be short and snappy and just kind of a pill. He doesn't call me or check in with me, I have to call and pursue what he's doing, when he's coming home etc. and I hate it because I don't want to feel like his mother.

I'm trying to pray trust God and wade through this and I'm really struggling.

RH

RH,

I hate..absolutely LOATHE to kick sand on your hopes when you are so obviously sincere and vulnerable....but what you have here isn't recovery for EITHER issue and it is probably time to walk until HE gets serious and seriously on board with REAL recovery..not intermissions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Noodle...I understand you're perspective here, but I'm curious...

If walking wasn't an option (although I think having plan b ducks in a row is a good idea) what suggestions would you have for living day to day under the current circumstances?

RH...I don't mean to hijack your thread here, I just thought some suggestions from the other perspective might help.

Take care!
B.

I think he's a dry drunk to a very LARGE degree!

no sponsor <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
no big book <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
thinks he can cut corners of recovery <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Guess what I think?

I think OW is not your marriage's BIGGEST problem

it's pseudo-sobriety

hang in there ... he's not hit rock bottom yet

sorry

Pep

bump <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />