I guess I should have attached this to my previous post for history, but I am not sure it matters. The truth is finally coming out, and most of what I was worried about when I first posted was just wrong.

Our MC has asked me not to end this today - but I don't know if I am that strong. I know everyone on this board believes in marraige, and I do to, but how much is to much?

My husband walked out on his session with our marriage counselor last night. He didn't tell me why. I talked to her today. I had discovered about a week ago by accident that he had a secret hotmail account. He would not let me access it, but gave MC the password. I am pretty sure he did some cleaning out first.

Last night, she read the emails that were it. He has confessed to emailing 2 single women in addition to having some saved emails from OW ( 3 month PA, NC for 2 months)

MC found several emails to and from him and one single woman that she described as very intimate. No emails from the other two. Basically, he is talking to her about his childhood, his feelings, his counseling sessions. All the things he refuses to discuss with me, and she says the emails read like intimate conversations with a spouse. Oddly enough, he did tell this woman that about a week ago he had a re-connection with me and wanted to work on the marriage. MC said this woman's emails are flirty, and that this is a disaster for our relationship. She told him he has to end these email relationships.

He has already told me he "knows" that he won't do anything, so this is ok. But he ended leaving MC office, saying she judged him, he can never forgive her, and he is done with counseling.

MC has asked me to give it a few days, but here is the bottom line for me. My husband is a SA. For the first 8 years of our marriage, it was porn. Then an affair, where he found his "soulmate." After going NC on that one, he is emailing single women within a couple of weeks. I guess the only good thing in that is that it confirms that OW really was nothing special.

He has also decided that I can't check up on him, wont't call me going to and from work, he will leave me if I go through his stuff. And he hates that I post on this site - but today I don't care.

I am not sure what caused our "re-connection," but this is my fear. I discovered the email account less than 24 hours before a MC session. For the sake of our children, I did not blow up in anger, but decided to let MC handle it the next day.

So perhaps in avoiding anger, I avoided a LB, and that caused the re-connect. But my fear is that when I didn't throw him out the door that day - he started getting the desire to have his cake and eat it too. He admitted that day that he obsesses with checking his phone, email, etc, and still hopes OW will call him, but I guess these new women are his back-ups since she hasn't. (That I can prove)

I already hit a low point yesterday. A friend said to me that I am really pretty and could easily do better than him. The low came not from thinking I could do better, but because I can't remember the last time my husband said I am pretty.

Our 9th anniversary is this week. All I can think is that whith the porn, the affair, and now these emails, there has not ever been a day I have been the only woman in my marriage. My husband is an experienced liar, and will not take responsibity for any of his own actions.

I have tried so hard to save this. Had a session with Steve Harley - he said my husband does not have a belief system that includes lasting marriage.

I don't want to, but how can I not walk away from this?

personally

I support you leaving this toxic marriage

sorry

Pep

Pep,

I think toxic is a good way to describe the way it feel right now.

I appreciate your opinion. It is hard for me to face ending this even though I think I should - I will need a push.


I got so wrapped up in my typing, that I guess I did leave out something in my post. I bought a book for him weeks ago, I think it is "Receiving Love", something he has never done. Has never believed I love him. Took is with him to work this morning and said that he was going to start reading and working through things on his own. Usually I am very optimistic, and would see this as a positive. Today, I can't feel it. Is something like that enough?

From how you are describing your M, your H has a LOT of work to do which he may or may not do and which may or not bring lasting change. I don't think you should stay around for more of the same without seeing any progress. You need to separate yourself from this situation. You are starting to see things objectively and you need to keep doing so, even though the pain is great. Walk through it--there is peace at the other side. There is nothing more you can do at this point, and his continuing behavior indicates you need to protect yourself. Sometimes, loving someone just isn't enough.

not in my opinion

he is not marriage material

and a book, one he may or may not read, is not likely to change all of that

look at something inside yourself a little

in what ways did having a partially-available husband give you freedom or power or safety?

just quiet yourself and ask what did you get out of his dysfunction

there had to be a benifit despite the obvious nastyness

there is always a pearl there if we dare to look

introspection is in order when you are ready to ask yourself the difficult questions

(((hugs)))

Pep

Thank you. It is so hard to look back over 9 years. I have punished myself so much wondering where things went wrong, and as you said, what was the benefit. I can't find the answer.

It took two years of marriage to discover the internet porn. He was remorseful. I had no idea of SA at the time. By the time I discovered he still did it, I was pregnant.

I have two beautiful children, and he is an amazing Dad (except of course that now he thinks a divorce won't hurt them!) He is pretty easy to live with, and in many ways we have had a great life together. Maybe that was enough for me, although I never felt like it. I was craving male attention 4 years ago, I just didn't act on it.

I guess I knew the porn was there - but he took it out of the house, and I took that as our compromise - even though I hated it. But the affair was different, and that started the path we are on now.

There were no signs he was this kind of person when we married. Except that he said his parents never loved him. They are jerks so I believed that, but the joke is on me because now I know he doesn't allow anyone to love him.

I thought I chose so carefully when I married him. I was 29, well-educated, great job, great family, felt attractive, and self-confident.

Now I just feel destroyed.

WTC, I try to support MB principles with all those who come here in pain but I can't do that in your case. I don’t think there is any chance you can have any kind of marriage with this man. Your husband has arrogantly decided he doesn't have to do anything to work on the marriage and refuses to listen to the truth even when a counselor gives it to him. His lack of repentance is striking in view of all his transgressions. I wonder only that you have lasted this long in what is surely a “toxic” marriage if there ever was one. If Steve Harley says there’s nothing in your husband’s moral principles that allows for a continued marriage, you can take it to the bank that there is no chance.

Frankly, I think your best course of action is to secure your finances and see an attorney at your earliest opportunity for at least a legal separation from this man. Get credit cards issued in your name only, set up checking and savings accounts he cannot access, etc. Don’t wait for him to make the decision, WTC. You should make an appointment with an attorney today. Best wishes, WTC. Hang tough, lady.

shall I press on?

tell me to stop at any time

he was easy to live with because he did not require much intimacy from you

women who stay in very weird marriages often do so because they are more comfortable with a less intimate relationship

Gosh, I hate to disagree with Pep, as she is one of the smartest people here, but I don't think you are ready for divorce. Also your MC is asking you to wait.

When I was finally ready for divorce, I knew that was what I wanted. I had no doubts, no regrets, and could hardly wait to get it over. I don't think you are there yet.

Pep,

Please press on. I need the help.

I have thought about my role in the lack of intimacy. I went into the marriage coming from a religious home, where sex was not discussed.

I never knew that because of the porn, my husband expected porn star responses from me. I guess I didn't get that. And he felt rejected. And he has never been much to talk about feelings, so when he stopped that, I just thought it was because he didn't enjoy those conversations.

I know there were times when the lack of intimacy was ok, like when the porn issuse came up - I just couldn't look at him. But I always felt like I craved and wanted the intimacy. I don't know. People think I like to talk, and you can see from my posts I'm wordy. But they also usually describe me as a very private person. So is there a wall I don't see?

Anne and Longhorn,

Thank you for your help. The opinions on this board really matter to me. It's hard to get advice from friends and family sometimes - they are to close to the situation. I appreciate what everyone has to say. And thanks for the financial advice. I do have two small children and it is important.

Believer,

I guess you hit on the one thing that has been stopping me. I am feeling so hopeless, but then I think that as long as I have still feelings, should I end it? Because the truth is, that if he gets it together, I want this marriage. But I can't want much longer. MC wants to give him a few days to change his mind and continue counseling. She thinks she has pushed him and he may have a "breakthrough" of sorts. But I don't think even she will want me to hang in much longer, because she is so concerned about the developing email relationships.

Ultimately how long you're in for is up to you. It's your own mental health you have to consider. I dunno if you've read my story, but it has a couple of similarities to yours. Mainly the SA. I'm fighting like my life depended on it to make my M work. It would appear that WW is slowly coming around. What does God tell you to do?

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A week after my post where I felt no hope, I have some, but I can't trust my own judgment now.

The day I wrote the first post, my husband agreed to NC with the woman he started emailing after the end of affair with OW. He spent 2 hours talking to me about the subjects of their emails, and just things about him. It was a very open conversation compared to what we usually have.

He has agreed to go back to MC even though he is still furious with MC. We have a session tonight. We have a joint agreement that even if he can't work with her, we must be in marriage counseling with someone.

The past week has been the smoothest since D-Day for us. He has been wonderful with the children, seems less stressed, and even when I had an angry day, dealt with it well, and was compassionate. He said he would not call me going to and from work anymore, but has done so several times anyway, but not everyday.

But I have some serious red flags. I guess if he seems content, I wonder why. He wants everything to be over - doesn't want to deal with this anymore. And he doesn't seem to want the counseling like he did before. He is re-engaging in the marriage some, but not in the way I had hoped he would by now.

We are 3 months past D-Day, 2 months of NC. Is it to soon to expect him to just jump back into the marriage?

Also, the SA leaves me worried. He has such a need for secrets. When I asked him if he had any secrets, there was just a hint of hesitation, I thought. And the tone on "no" didn't quite convince me.

I don't know how to check up on him. He used a work computer and work voice mail to have his affair. He works in a secured building, I can't even get to his desk.

I was really down last week, and terrified by the side of him I have seen now. But there is good in him too. And I guess I am not ready to turn my back on that.

Can someone help me decide what boundries to insist on for a somewhat reluctant FWS who is trying recovery? I have insisted on NC, but other than that, I have not been sure what will be to much while he seems to still be in the "fog."

Radical Honesty!!!!!

Not a boundry really but that is the first step I would take.

You will never trust someone with secrets.

As far as checking up on him. Transparancy!!! He should give you his passwords to his vm at work and his work email.

I have figured out the hint of hesitation in my FWW. It is them scrubbing the mental database trying to figure out exactly what they told you before. That is where radical honesty comes in.

My FWW told me she didn't remember everything that happened. I told her one time that I think she did remember what happened but she didn't remember what she told me happened. I use this saying a lot here it is from Mark Twain. "An honest man does not need a good memory.

I hope this helps.

After a good week, I think I may have ruined my plan A last night. Can someone help me analyze?

Lst night because of our counseling session, we ended up talking about the affair, which we have not done in awhile. I was hoping to take the conversation toward radical honesty. I thought that sharing more of my feelings might help him understand why I need honesty from him.

I think I blew it and turned it inot a major LB. I think I had to much anxiety over our counseling session, and then got myself really worked up because he came home with something on his shirt that looked like it could have been makeup. I'm sure it could have been something else too, but I don't know. And I guess it freaked me out.

So in asking for honesty, I started talking about how upset I get when something happens that I can't explain, and I had a short list of examples. He got very anrgy, yelled at me to stop, and left the room. Later said he was sorry he made me cry. But the conversation never really got finished.

So today, I am trying to figure out if he is angry because he is really trying to work on the marriage and I hurt his feelings, or if he is doing something he shouldn't, and that provoked the anger.

He is treating me very differently than he did during the affair. Last night the MC said he was very engaged with me, which she had not seen before. During the affair he was horrible to me. Of course, before I knew I didn't understand why.

So could he change his behavior and be seeing her and still nice to me? In many ways, I don't think he is seeing her. If his job were to find out, he would be fired. He has already been warned. That is a huge risk for him. But two months ago, he thought he couldn't live without her, so I can't expect him to be totally logical.

So what next. How do I repair last night's LB? And does anyone have an opinion on his behavior?

Thanks for helping me. I really need it.