Looong story:

Ok, my wife and I have been married for nearly 12 years. Near our last anniversary I found a message on her cell phone to another man. She had been going through some drastic changes, working out like crazy, got a tattoo, belly button ring, etc. I was devastated, it was the wake up call. I thought everything was ok but after reading the information on this site and talking to her that day I can see that she had suffered greatly due to my emotional neglect. I was happy of course because for the most part I was getting what I needed to be happy. I enjoy my job and am very successful at it, I love my wife, we had a great sex life, things were great *for me*. For her, life was spent at home taking care of the kids, not a lot of adult interaction, a husband who worried about the bank balance more than how she felt about the new furniture she wanted or even the dinner and even didn't support her dreams. Like she wanted to become a physical trainer and the moron that I am thought "hey, she might meet some hot guys that way" and didn't really support her in it. I did a terrible job of getting her sentimental gifts on her special holidays (at least I could have done a lot better).

That day I realized a lot of things. I can't *keep* my wife, we need to make a life where we *want* to be. I've faced my insecurity to a great deal and fully support her new career as a trainer and aerobics instructor. I've tried to think of life from her perspective every day (tried! not always succeeded...) I get her flowers on my way home every time I see the last ones start drooping. We've been going on dates every week without the kids. I have learned to cook a few dishes, I make her dinner once in a while, cook cookies, etc. Trying to spend as much time together as possible. Trying to listen and converse about the subjects she is interested in, etc. Just trying to say that I'm trying.

Ok at the same time I have had a *terrible* time getting the thoughts of her with another man out of my mind. It has had a bad effect on our sex life. I feel that she does not desire me and I want that so incredibly bad. I don't believe that she told me the truth about what happened. She said they were never together; maybe they weren't, but I've seen lingerie that I never saw before, I've even had her do things in bed that we never did before. At times things are good but when she rejects me I feel absolutely horrible. In the early days I would withdraw for 1-2 days at a time afterwards and this hurt her badly. Probably made her feel like I only want her for sex.

In addition, I snooped a lot. She got very angry at me when I either snooped on her or when I got depressed. One time she said that I was throwing this stuff in her face. She has told me that if she has to feel like this she would rather be alone.

This situation has improved a bit. We've had a ton of great dates, we often talk about our future together. For some reason I still feel that there is a disconnect between us. Sooo, I snooped again. We did a project together where we had to tear down our den and went without computers for a few days. I installed something and now know that she flirts with men online. This *kills* me.

From conversations I know some things
- she has told me she never had time in her life where she was "free" and could do whatever she wants
- she wants to take more risks and not be so cautious (I'm a bit of a shy person, not exceptionally outgoing, etc)
- she thinks of things in terms of "life is short, what if I died tomorrow". etc.
- she doesn't feel sexy (but she is HOT! I absolultely love how she looks; she works out a ton and is just awesome, however my compliments often have no effect, well sometimes they do but she usually just says something like "oh thats sweet")

I know that snooping makes her incredibly angry but I wouldn't give a crap if she snooped through all of my stuff. However I think she feels trapped and as if her life is passing her by. Even after all of the improvements we've made I think there is still something missing that she is yearning for. I consider myself as having been in Plan A for the past 8 months but I also realize the situation could be sooo much worse. I can't do a very good job of Plan A knowing about these secret emails, etc.

What the heck do I do. I've been so depressed I can't perform at work (and I'm a critical part of our company). In the early days I couldn't eat or sleep and now after all of this progress, seeing these signs is bringing that depression back.

She wants trust (don't spy on me) but every time I check I find something. Classmates account, flirty emails, etc. I give her trust for months then check again, yup there it is... But at the same time she is being so nice to me in all but the one way I *WANT* her to be.

Help? advice? anything? I don't have anyone to talk to about this... I sometimes blow things out of proportion too. The latest thing I found, literally was:

-a message to someone who she must have know in high school saying "wow, you forgot about me already" or something like that

-a message to someone on the internet telling him is picture was "yummmy"

All while having great lunch dates with me, spending tons of time with me. But not really being ***WITH*** me.

greg,

I don't know all of your situation but you should look into the signs of an affair. You have listed about everyone there is. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.

People in a marriage do not need privacy if they are not doing anything wrong.

If you are serious about finding out so you can decide where to go from here I would suggest installing spy software on your computer at home. It will capture every keystroke including passwords.

This is drastic but you need the piece of mind.

BTW my WW was a stay at home mom that got her belly button pierce too. Guess who she got it pierced for.

There is no recovery without radical honesty. If she won't give it to you then what are you recovering from?

I'm quite sure she had a fairly involved emotional affair for about 6 months and it was probably physical too. The way I found out was a text message on her phone to the other man saying "I just got a new tattoo, want 2 C it?". Oh how those words are seared into my brain...

I don't know the extent of it but there was an affair, I am sure of it. She downplays it but I think it weighs on her; maybe the secrets are a heavy burden for her to carry. I thought we were getting better but started to wonder again lately. We've talked about it but always with extremely little information given and usually leaving me with the feeling she's going to pack her bags. I have to end the conversation very quickly because she gets so incredibly upset. I really wish she would open up and just let it all out.

Anyway, I actually do believe that she has moved on and does not contact that man. I can even look at that tatoo and not get that sick feeling in my stomach any more.

Maybe radical honesty is what we need. I'm trying very hard to hide my feelings because I don't want her to know I started snooping again. But when I see that right after we had a great lunch together she goes home and tells some guy on the internet that he looks yummy it just kills me. The problem is that she can tell I'm upset but she doesn't know why so she probably just thinks "this guy just isn't fun to be around"... Not a good Plan A...

greg

how do you know? did she tell you?

Why are you trying to hide your feelings?

Is your marriage based on whether you are fun to be around?

Find out the truth and stop guessing. Who knows maybe nothing is happening and you are ruining your marriage because of it. I am not saying that is the truth but if I were you I would find out.

Thankyou for replying. You are making me think. THANKYOU

I know from phone records that she talked to this other man a lot up until the middle of last year. She was also leaving me with the kids on Sundays and on some week nights for a few hours. She said things like "I'm sorry for the things I did". She actually apologized a few times but I never learned the details. OK, I think I am over that stuff but well maybe I'm not completely. She has told me many times that I should be.

The past couple of days I've tried to hide my unhappiness because I snooped and saw those "flirty" messages on her computer from her to other men. From conversations in the past I think she would absolutely lose it if she found out that I snooped again. Which of course is why I am so damn curious about why she doesn't want me to snoop...

I'm basically feeling threatened by her flirting. And I'm stuck because I promised I would not snoop; I know she hates it; and I'm *afraid* of her reaction.

I don't think I'm ruining our marriage; just slightly less "friendly" maybe. Like having a hard time paying complete attention when we're talking; things like that. She is very sensitive to when I'm upset and I am to her so I'm sure she notices the little differences and wonders why I am... But, we talk all the time; in fact just got off the phone with her were we were both being very nice and affectionate but I bet if I check the computer tonight she'll have some more dang flirty messages goin out into the net to other guys too...

Its hard to convey all of the relevant information here but maybe as we go back and forth it will become more clear?

This is not recovery - it's called your wife doing whatever she pleases. You are afraid she will find out you are snooping, but you continue to find things.

Your wife needs counseling to find out why she can't be happy being a grown up woman, but instead needs to flirt on the computer.

You need counseling to figure out why you are so afraid of losing her.

greg,

My FWW was a big flirt, I always hated it. I know it led to her A.

After the A she continued to flirt in front of me. Really made me mad. I slipped up one night and paid a little to much attention to another woman because from what she had told me everytime she flirted it wouldn't bother her. Guess what she was furious. The reason I bring this up is how would she feel if she were on the other end of the flirting?

So now you are afraid. She will be furious if she catches you snooping. Who cares? Take care of yourself you do not deserve to be lied to and deceived. Do you?

If she is catching you snooping you are not good at it my friend. LOL. Try to get better at it. My phone company allows me to view bills on line. I placed spy software on my home computer. If something is going on you deserve to know. Make sure you dump the history, temp internet files and the autocomplete.

Would you get mad if you weren't doing anything wrong? Would you expect her to promise to not snoop if you had nothing to hide?

I wish I would have demanded honesty long ago now I am struggling to get it.

read Josephs letter it helped me.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=1#3003361

Good points. I should not be afraid. I haven't gotten caught; I've confronted her in the past and then suddenly the conversation gets turned on me all about snooping.

She has no idea right now. I can even see all the steps she takes to cover her tracks. I kind of want to see how serious this is before I bring it up. Well, to me its already extremely serious but I have given her so much "benefit of the doubt" in the past.

Maybe I do need counselling. I almost went one day but ended up cancelling. I finally came here hoping it would help and it really is. Thank you all, keep it coming.

I also know my situation could be much worse, my heart goes out to the people on this board; I wish the best to everyone.

Believer, she has been good in a lot of ways. She took it upon herself to check in with me a lot every day so I know where she is and what she's doing. She doesn't go out because she doesn't want me to worry, etc. I need to take that pressure off of her.

What I *think* is happening is she doesn't feel "good" about herself and attention from other men makes her feel good. So, she is playing with fire but probably thinks what she's doing is ok.

Greg

Good for you.

I told someone earlier today it is like watching a magic show. It is all about misdirection. They always try to turn the tables on us so we drop it. She has found an effective way to do this to you and you are letting her.

BTW you are waiting to see how serious this is. What if you can stop it from getting more serious? Are you just giving her enough rope to hang herself?

Hmmm, well I think that I'll gain no more information after I bring this up. In the worst case, if things really are bad right now she'll find a new way to communicate. So far I've only seen tiny cryptic (but very disturbing to me) messages from her and no replies. So finally I feel like I have a way to really find out something. I don't want things to get worse but if they already are bad I think I want to know.

Good as the nike commercial says "just do it"

Good luck to you.

Josephs letter really hit home. Oh boy I wish I had read that back a few months ago. Right now the thing I try to cling to is one of the articles on this site about the "wake up call" where Dr Harely says if your wife is willing to move on don't pressure her for the gory details...

So I don't want to go back there but I *DO* want honesty now.

I read something somewhere it might have been here. Think before you ask. Each detail will paint a picture there are certain pictures that you can live without. The gory details are probably the best pictures to do without.

BTW you do not want honesty now, you need honesty now.

I am going to use the letter next week because my mom is watching the kids this weekend and any mention of the A to my FWW means she won't talk to me for a week.

Hi Normal Guy,

I bet things don’t seem too “normal” these days?

Someone like me can’t really know what is going on inside your wife’s head, but I will make an observation based on what you have posted. Before I do that I would like to share with you something called “The Theory of Signs”. What it basically means is that almost all events in life are preceded by “signs” that are indicators of what is to come. Most of us fail in our ability to notice or decipher the signs and we therefore become victims or unwilling participants in events that we had the tools to control but failed to do so. Almost all acts of infidelity are preceded by “signs”. You are noticing such signs right now and it is important that you pay attention to them. That is precisely what you are doing in posting to this forum and monitoring your wife’s activities. Very good job.

What you are describing in your wife’s internet chats are acts of infidelity. She is searching out men and may already have several special friends that she is intimate with. Some of these relationships may be limited to chats of sexual encounters or the sharing of intimate details of the things that are important to her. You should also be prepared for the possibility of a physical affair. From the little you have described it seems clear that her behavior is inappropriate and grossly damaging to you and the marriage as you are attesting in your posts. She has likely rationalized a host of reasons why the things she is doing is in her best interests. Like most all affairs her rationalizations will begin to fall apart once they are examined in the light of day. The problem that you face is to expose her behavior in such a fashion that the damage she is doing becomes clear to her. It is tough to do when she must cast you in a negative light to give credence to her internet practices. Still it must be done. You can have no recovery without surfacing her actions and examining them in such a fashion that she can see what it is that her actions cause, to you, the marriage and herself. Until that is done she will be able to easily look in the mirror without remorse, she needs to face her actions with you as part of the solution. Without that, each time you make her feel uncomfortable or each time her home life seems a little drab, she will seek her special friends.

She is likely caught up in this world and does not know how to exit from it. Even if she does it will not likely be permanent as she may feel she can act in the dark of night without discovery.

If you were to ask her this question, “Should a man whose wife cheats on him stay or leave?” How do you think she would answer it? Perhaps this is the place to start as you have all the evidence you need to challenge her loyalty to the marriage. Once she becomes convinced that the “truth shall set her free”, she may welcome the freedom that bearing her soul will gift to her. As she tells all there is to tell, your wife and you will have taken the first step to recovery. You must make her feel that the best chance she has is to embrace honesty, after all, that is the truth.

You both will benefit immeasurability with a marriage counselor who is well versed in saving and preserving marriages. There are a lot of substandard marriage counselors out there so shop carefully and change without hesitation if there is anything at all that causes you pause.

One more thing with regard to your concern that your wife will take exception to your spying on her activities, remember, you are spying because your wife has violated the trust in the marriage. She left signs that you followed and thus surfaced her internet activity. Without your watching or monitoring her activities how will you know that she is committed to the marriage? Once she understands this, it will be a “sign” that she is developing an understanding of what she has caused.

Mr. G

No I don't feel normal at all these days.

I am realizing that this will all have to come out soon. I have to think long about how to do it though. Thanks for your ideas.

I suggested marriage counselling a couple months ago and the idea was rejected. Things change though. I wish I knew how to find a good one in Las Vegas. Anyone out there know one?

I suggest that you go for counseling by yourself. Once you get stronger, you will be better prepared to face this.

The way you are living is no way to exist. Your wife is not behaving like a wife, and she seems to have issues. But if she refuses counseling, you can still help yourself.

You're probably right believer. I'll look into it. I've been trying to focus a bit on improving myself maybe this will help.

Ok, I guess I'm back in Plan A. Had the confrontation and she refused to admit anything. She broke down and told me that she doesn't feel the same anymore and doesn't know what she wants. I blew it and revealed too early. Last night was a very long emotional night but I don't think anything was resolved. She was distant this morning but has started to talk a little about chores, etc. What now. She said she's been hiding her feelings all through the "recovery". I want to kick her out but I know that will not help at all and I don't really want to anyway...

So she is admitting nothing?

What are you recovering from?

She has been hiding what feelings? Sounds like the feelings she is hiding are remorse and regret and honesty.

You will have to stick with Plan A can't recover from something if there is nothing to recover from. How do you recover from an A if she is telling you there isn't one.

Don't kick her out try to pull her close and see what happens. If she won't admit it though you will have to make a decesion sooner or later.

Do you have an children?