Yes 3 children. She told me they are the reason she's still here. Once I started digging deep, really cracking through the defensive show of why are you spying on me, etc, she just started going back to her feelings of depression and neglect that led her to the affair. The discussion from there just focused on that and me apologizing for things... Today I took the day off and just went shopping with her and we just kept things low-tension. I kind of feel like I just rolled over and gave in for her. But I don't want to push too hard because she has valid points. I didn't see it at the time but her life was miserable for a long time and I am sure she just wants out; she just doesn't know how to do it. The first time I caught her, she seemed to give him up that day and started checking in with me all the time, changed her phone number (but I later found out she kept the secret email address they used) It seemed like we were doing well...

I never take any medication; not even asprin but I think I need something to enable me to function at work right now. I'll keep trying though; I think there is still a lot of hope.

Nothing you have ever done gives her the right to have an A. Remember that.

What valid points. My FWW gave me plenty of reasons to have an A but I didn't.

If she was so miserable for so long she should have done something other than an A. Marriage conseling for one.

If it was so bad she could have left you not had the A.

I am sorry you are having a hard time. Depression medication might be in order if you need it.

Rember that the issue is not how horrible you were it is how she reacted to it. Nobody deserves to have an A. There are plenty of other outs.

Thanks years. I have tried not to tell her things like that because I don't think it will have a positive effect coming from me. I try not to defend myself too much; maybe thats a mistake. Coming from someone else it might. I gotta find a counselor.

I sometimes wonder if she is just so ashamed of things she's done that I don't know about that she would rather just dump everything than face this mess.

She isn't withdrawn though. She isn't hiding or ignoring me right now. For example she just called me the first chance she got as she went from one job to another. But I don't know how much to read into that.

I wish I'd held out longer; I don't know if this current evidence is the tip of an iceberg or a momentary slip. She's not saying anything so of course thats a bad sign...

Probably alot of everything. She may not be ashamed she may just not want to face the mess.

I gotta tell you though you gotta know.

I just realized today that I have more questions about my FWW's A. I hope I get some answers. I can tell you it has been eating me up for a very long time and thats after she admitted the A but wouldn't be honest about what happened.

There is no reason to defend yourself. If you were not good to her you were not good to her. Do not accept what is not true though. When my FWW admitted the affair she told me part of the reason was that I never asked about her day. I felt like a horrible husband how could I not do that. The fog lifted and I said wait a minute. You called me 3-6 times a day and I talked to you then. I called you everyday on the way home and we talked for an hour while I drove home. Because I didn't specifically ask how your day was I was a bad husband? Well then she said well when she called me I did all the talking not her. Well now she admits she did most of the talking as well. So she made an excuse for her A and I accepted it. Another reason I was a bad husband is because when I walked through the door I did not give her a kiss. Boy did I feel bad about that . Then I realized I just got done driving an hour and a half to 2 hours home. I had to pee like a race horse and my kids jumped on me to say hi. When i got done peeing and I peeled the kids off me I gave her a kiss. I said if I am a bad husband for not kissing you when I walked through the door does that make you a bad wife for not kissing me when I came in. Hmmm. If so you are a horrible wife. Guess what she admitted it was just an excuse as well. I think you get the point. Don't take it at face value you are a bad husband.

Change the things you did wrong but challange the BS.

You need to change that. But she needs to be honest too.

Look at the emotional needs questionaire see if she will do it with you.

You should find a couselor.

Seconding YOHs post.

OK..I admit my H didn't do this...maybe he has lived with me too long to even try such a thing. I am revolted to the point of nausea when I see a BS accept such malarky.

WSs are liars..and the person they most to is themselves.

Wait 'till the WS becomes a FWS and THEN you will have an easier time figuring out what parts of the marriage need revamping.

One such example is Bob Pures wife [I think] whose initial reason for her self permission was that she had changed her hair..and Bob had "failed" to remark on it..OM didn't.

With that logic..'well, you didn't say/do/etc, and so I had an affair' then 'well, you had an affair so I tortured and killed your mother' is an equally valid response.

Yeah, probably not ashamed.

Did you two go to a counselor before you got her to actually talk to you? If I'm not extremely careful about my questions, she just curls up in a ball in her bed and won't talk to me for hours. I've never even got close to any details...

I got discouraged this morning trying to find a counselor; every number was an answering machine or out of service. I'll get back to it.

Your wife is justifying her affair. You are accepting blame for it. Let me ask you this: “If you started beating your wife who’s fault would it be?” Would it be her fault for doing something that made you angry or would it be your fault for reacting that way? Well we know the correct answer: It would be your fault for reacting that way to her.

Same with her Affair. It is her fault and her fault only. Now maybe you were not the best husband and you should have been better but that does not give her the right to have an affair. She could have talked to you and if you did not respond she could have divorced you and found a new man to love her, but she did not do that.

Are you still a lousy husband? I mean from what you are describing she is still looking for other men so are you still a lousy husband? If you have been a good husband then why is she still doing this extra-curricular activity? Is it because you were not a good husband in the past? Well she can use that excuse for the rest of her life.

You want your wife to be honest but you are not being honest with her. You are a conflict avoider and yet you expect things to get better. They will not unless you confront her. You don’t have boundaries so she keeps running all over you.

If you think I am being mean I was you a couple of years ago. You are too afraid to do anything about it because you live in fear. You fear if you press things that your wife may leave. My wife was the same way. Not just her affair but she refused to take responsibility for anything. She said it was my fault and I kept justifying her behavior by agreeing that it must be my fault.

Decide what you want out of life. If you want a wife that might cheat but she may still stay with you then accept it. You may be miserable but she may stay with you if you avoid confrontation at any cost. Or you can take control of your life and not accept this kind of treatment. People that are honest in a marriage should not be afraid of snooping.

She knows she can threaten you and you will back down. It took me over 17 years to learn that does not work. My wife was a master at making me back down. Until the day I would not accept that anymore. The last time she threatened me I told her to leave my home and don’t let the door hit you on the way out. She could not believe I said that to her.

When I would not accept her bad behavior it stopped. I decided I wanted a divorce and now she is so nice to me. Funny thing all those years when I lived in fear she was never nice to me. She was really a lousy wife and despite that I never cheated on her. Being a bad husband or wife does not give a person the right to cheat but it gives then and excuse to cheat.

It is also not your wife’s fault that she treats you like this. It is your fault for accepting it. If you allow it she will keep doing it. If you don’t address these problems they will not go away. Get Counseling!

Your comments hit home. I know that I am avoiding conflict and holding back feelings way too much. I try too hard too. She's not mean about it but she has told me to "relax".

I believe I am a good husband now. I'm really focused on considering her feelings in everything we do, spending time together, having fun, helping around the house, getting gifts, surprises, etc. Actually I think I'm doing too much; probably making her feel smothered. I do avoid conflict and hold things in at times. I don't think I do that very often now but she might disagree.

I may be ruining my marriage right now. There is no way she's seeing anyone right now and even email contact is very rare. She wrote to someone but they didn't write back even after a week.

I do question her loyalty. And she admitted as much to me the night before. She hasn't said she doesn't love me but she has said she thinks I'll go back to treating her the way I used to. She says the past has changed her and she doesn't know if she can feel the same way about me again. She said she's trying. This last episode took a toll on her feelings towards me. I think she is actually trying to decide wether to leave me.

The past has changed you and her.

She doesn't know if she will ever feel the same way again.

The last episode took a toll on her feelings toward you.

What about you did any of her actions take a toll on your feelings for her?

Things have changed and it will never be the same again. You can through hard work make it better then it ever was.

My FWW has said the same thing to me soooo many times I can't count them. I reassure her everytime that I want it to be better then it ever was. Not the same, not worse, only better. If you are honest and caring and work with me I know this will happen.

You know my story. My FWW is finally after all this time agreeing to be radically honest about her A. We had one Q&A on Tuesday. On Wednesday I thanked her for her honesty. On Thursday I thanked her again and told her how much I loved her. I have chosen a path of pulling her closer when I am sure she thinks I am going to push her away. I am sure that on Tuesday night she thought I was going to blow up and not talk to her. Just the opposite. I pulled her closer.

Normal –

Your pre-A conditions are just like mine. Like you I did not “see” my W. She was a SAH mom – up until 6 months ago. She felt like felt like nothing was hers. In fact she had an online EA 2.5 yrs ago that started on a singles site. Said she was looking for excitement, was “bored”, her life had not become what she thought it would be, etc.

I didn’t respect what she did at home with the kids – I expected it. I was not thoughtful or caring. I thought that as long as I was providing for the family and was faithful and physically “there” for the family, then I was doing my job. Like you I’ve learned a lot. Looks like you’re doing a GREAT job meeting ENs.

My WW would bust my emotions after I uncovered hurtful info in a snoop too. I could NOT hide it from her. If I checked tmobile.com and saw she had called him when she said didn’t I could not hide my anger if she was anywhere near me after the discovery. It even showed through the phone. However, if I had a couple hours to process or posted on this forum for support before I saw or talked to her next, then I would usually be OK.

Only suggestion to you would be to confine your info gathering to a regular schedule when you know you can process the info or come here for support BEFORE you see her again. If she sees you in your anger or hurt I think you’re limiting the choices you have with what you do w/the snooped info. If you’re able to process the info and be cool when you see her next then you give yourself way more options. Come to this site and ask what you should do with the info. Or better, call SH and ask him what to do.

WW blamed me for the A too. I actually believed her. With some help I believed that I did not CAUSE it but I believed I could have prevented it. They sound like the same thing but somehow are different. When I finally saw that I could not have prevented it I got the separation from WW and the A that I needed. It was so important for me to take that burden OFF of myself.

My WW ALSO said she was afraid I’d go back to treating her the way I used to. That all the change and the effort I’m putting into leading us out of this mess is so that I can put a “W” in the win column. Because I don’t like to lose, etc. etc. Oh also said I’m doing this so I can feel like a better man. Blah, blah, blah. I believed it all at first. Over time I could see that while this reasoning may have had a legitimate foundation - her fear of being rejected by me again - it was being built WAY up to be bigger than a clear-thinking adult in a 5-year M with 2 children would let it be. And guess who was helping her build the wall – OM.

Didn’t successfully confront her directly on this reasoning but I did get to the point where it didn’t matter if I was able to convince her that it was irrational. I told her to pick any reason for coming back to the marriage, giving up OM and giving it a try – me (she said if it was just me she wouldn’t have come back – ouch), the kids, financial comfort, extended family, that great salsa I make. She picked the kids. Or said that was the reason.

This may be bad advice so check with the experts but you may want to present her with reasons why it’s worth it to give the M a try. For me I was having so little luck getting through to WW that I was a good reason or the M was a good reason to come back I just started throwing everything up against the wall. Like I said it looks like the kids stuck. She was also very surprised when I told her I didn’t care that she didn’t want to come back for me. That I knew she was not in love with me but that was OK because people fall back in love – which she said she didn’t believe BTW.

I am by no means an expert so don’t take what I say as gospel. I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m off. I’ve been helped SO much on this board I want to post and try to give something back. Hopefully it helps. At the very least just know you are not alone.

Just saw "years" comments. I can testify to the benefit of pulling WW closer. Monday of this week she agreed to NC. Got an email from OM on Tuesday and went outside in a huff to call & tell him to leave her alone. When she came back inside - this had never happened before where she talked to him front of me like that - I know she expected me to be angry.

I told her if she wanted to share the conversation with me that I would be there for her, not judge and not criticize. I got my ideas from "A quick start guide on withdrawal for FWS’s and BS’s"

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

Some of what she shared hurt me but I bit my toungue and said "this must be hard for you". About 15 minute later she was crying in my arms and apologizing for making a mess of everything.

Pulling her closer has been KEY for me. Someone told me to be her lighthouse through all this and that image stuck. My struggle has been with keeping my self-respect and at the same time being there for her.

I am definitely guilty of not wanting to fail. Not wanting be someone whose wife left them. And I'm just shocked at what I could lose. I need to get over those emotions because they don't help. She probably sees that in me which maybe is why she is still not warming up to me. I know she feels trapped and like she has no choice so if I give the impression that I have to have her that probably doesn't make her feel good.

But I also love her and our family so much. I know we can be better than ever. I am so ready to do whatever it takes.

I found a counselor today and have an appointment but its not until the 15th. I still need to talk her into going (she said she would think about it and unfortunately its on her mom's birthday and she'll be visiting at the time) but I'll go anyway even if she doesn't. On the phone this morning I told her I needed honesty and that even what I saw in her email doesn't convince me that she is "that far gone" and she said she wasn't.

So cross your fingers for me :-) I'm going to try the emotional needs Q this weekend and she said we could talk about things. Thank you for all of the insight (keep it coming!) It does help to hear from others who've been through this. God it hurts and I really regret not being there more for a friend of mine who went through something like this. I had no idea how bad a person could feel until this.

One more quick comment re: your separation from the A. Regardless of how responsible you were or you feel for the pre-A environment, it took two of you to create it. I read something last night about situations like ours where the S that gave too much was just at fault as the taker for continuing to give and not respecting themselves enough to make a change.

There are 10000 things my WW could have done INSTEAD of having the affair. She could have stopped folding my socks. Doing laundry. Cooking. Cleaning. She could have asked my brother to talk to me. My sisters-in-law. Her mother. My mother. She could have initiated a counseling session. Could have agreed to go when I suggested one. She could have gone to the self-help section of a book-store (WW loves to read) and read up on how to deal with an out-of-balance marriage. Could have talked it through with a trusted friend. SO many things that WW could have done but instead she CHOSE to have an A.

Used to think that my treatment of her Pre-A was equal to what she did to me in the A. And we were even. But I realized that the pre-A environment was created by both of us. We BOTH did things to harm the marriage. Each other. And we could BOTH have done things to fix it.

The Affair was something that WW did 100% herself to ME and to the M. There is no equality between my pre-A behavior and her A. Absolutely none. The A is something she owns ALL BY HERSELF. And always will. There is NOTHING I could have done to stop it. WW made the decision to damage our M ALONE.

This is not a new thought for me but it's taken a couple weeks to fully believe it. The more I think it and read it the more real it becomes.

Here's a good post from another thread to a WW.



If you're not already, spend as much time as you can reading on this forum. There are posts that will change your way of thinking. Which is what you will need to survive this - a new paradigm.

I definitly do think things like "ok call it even", or "I deserved it".

NG - don't worry about her right now. Don't worry about getting honesty or accurately assessing the situation or making decisions or getting her to counseling. Don't worry about ANY of that stuff. Just worry about YOU. YOU are the most important person right now. YOU are the customer. The willing participant.

Any MBer here will tell you that MB is not about changing your S or fixing your marriage. It's about changing yourself. Fixing YOU. Indulge in it.

Try to find a counselor that can see you before the 15th. That's a LONG time to wait. When I was losing my mind I called around until I could find one to see me THAT day. If you can swing the price tag I'd recommend a session with one of the Harleys.

Sending good thoughts your way.

MDC

You might have deserved a kick in the pants for forgetting what her favorite flower is or for tracking dirt into the house. Nobody deserves an A. Women who have been unfortunate enough to have experienced violent rape AND the betrayal of an affair will say almost always that the affair hurt worse.

Now, if you can justify to me ANY condition that a woman deserves to be raped, I might think about considering that someone deserves an affair.

Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok, I will try for the phone counseling tomorrow. I'll talk to her about it tonight.

Thanks for the good thoughts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My wife just called again and told me that she cancelled the email account. I still feel the need for her to tell me what was going on though.

So, how do I proceed? I suspect she'll consider that the issue is solved now. Its not, she blatently came on to one man and seemed to have somewhat of a history of emails to another. I have to stick to my guns even though I'm happy that she took this step.

I don't really think she's doing this to just go further under cover. But I don't know if thats the part of me that wants everything to be ok talking or what.

What the heck can I trust; she wouldn't tell me what she wrote. She just kept asking what I knew and how; she *never* told me. Thank god I didn't tell her how much I already know. I had hoped that if she told me without knowing how much I know then I could trust her... ug...

Also, at the same time as all of this, I am still trying to bring her close. We're still planning a vacation together without the kids, buying expensive tickets, etc.

Bye the way MDC, your signature gives me chills. I can see now that you can't just sweep this stuff under the rug and move on...

Normal -

You really cannot sweep it. Knowing that you and I don't have any choice now but to take the hard road.

I hate that I think about this ALL the time. I hate that I feel like this is something I have to MANAGE. I get SO tired sometimes. It sucks doesn't it?

The good news is that I'm learning something about myself. About life.