My H lied to me for months about a close "friendship" that he had with another woman. He claims that they were just friends but they called each other up to 10x a day 7 days a week and it was all in secret. They even went to the mall without my knowing, in my car and when I asked him if anyone had been in my car he denied it. His deception has destroyed everything that we have built together. We had the perfect marriage. Or at least I thought we had. He admits that he created a bunch of confusion and that he created problems where they didn't exist therefore prompting him to find solutions to fictitious problems in the wrong places. He admits that I did nothing wrong and has been begging me for months to forgive him and to try and move past his mistakes and continue to live our lives as normal.

I am having a huge problem forgiving him and moving on. I know he is not telling me the truth. There is no possible way that my H just had a friendship with this woman and that she was nothing more than just that. He lied to me and my family in order to leave family functions (regardless of what they were) Anniversary, Xmas, weekend getaways, it didn't matter, he claims that she had a lot of problems and he was just helping her and that he called so much to check up on her and to see if she took care of whatever she had to take care of.

Even though I don't think they had a physical affair I do believe feelings were involved. He has not admitted to any of this and I don't think he ever will.

Can anyone give me advice on what they have done to try and forgive a lying spouse. I loved my H very much but now my feelings have totally changed and it makes me really sad. I feel sad, angry, depressed, rage, you name it. I'm an emotional roller coaster. I'm a mess. And I hate it. And I hate what he did to our marriage.

I just need someone to talk to. I can't talk to him because all he does now is cries like a little baby begging for forgiveness. I don't want to burden my family with this mess any further. Can anyone talk to me.

Trust is a hard thing to restore, but I believe it can be done. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> First, I think you need to determine what kind of liar you're dealing with. He's either a "avoid trouble liar", a "feel good liar" or a "born liar".

Avoid trouble liars are doing just that, trying to avoid trouble. They usually fess up once caught in a lie, but not always. Typically, this is the easiest habit of the 3 to change. Simply don't punish his honesty. This sounds like your guy.

Feel good liars lie to make themselves feel good. They fabricate job accomplishments, college degrees. It helps them keep up with the Jones's.

Born liars are near impossible deal with. They lie about anything and everything and from what I've read, take years of therapy to recover completely if at all.

Back to the first one. Tell him this. "I can forgive just about anything, but I can't forgive being lied to any longer." Then give him the opportunity to be honest. Don't punish his honesty. Remember, if he's honest and admits to something, it's not the honesty that is hurting you, it's the action that he lied about.

That's my opinion. Hope it helps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to marriagebuilders. It is a great place to be under the circumstances. It sounds like your husband had at least an emotional affair, and maybe a physical affair.

He lies because he is afraid you will end the marriage, and to protect your feelings. In the long run, it makes everything much worse. But that is what they usually do.

I suggest the two of you get some marriage counseling. It would be a mistake to forgive him and let it go. Until the truth comes out, this will always be between you.

Sorry you are going through this its very hard not to believe the one you love.You find out you really don`t kmnow them at all. My WH would lie through his teeth, when I would requestion him on the same subject he would answer with another lie.Did`nt matter what I thought it was all lies.Good thing I had proof.

Deceived -

Hi - sorry you have to be here....MB is a life-saver for me & I pray that you will find some support and a road to recovery for your M.

The first thing I learned about ME when I discovered my H was having an Affair was that I contributed to the atmosphere that led to the A. I took responsiblity for my actions first and decided that I was going to help figure out how to put my M back together.

Trust is very hard to restore, but the A needs to end first. MB has a plan -- one that is quite successful. Is the A over? What has he done to show you that & provide you with a sense of safety?

Take care,

Kim

Have you read everything here on MB's? What needs do you think the OW was/is meeting for your H?

How can you forgive him you don't know what to forgive him for???

My husband lied to me two years ago, he denied all the evidence I had till I "believed" him.

It just destroyed our life. For the past two years I have been living a nightmare not trusting him and blaming myself for not trusting him. I never believed my gut instinct again, I lost my self esteem.

For him? He did it the first time and got away with it... so it just led him to have at least 2 more A. ONLY now when presented with hard proof he finally admited.



Don't take that path... Don't choose to live in doubt... He has to come clean now. You need to know the whole truth.

Don't take the "just friends" and the help her with her problems, that's what they ALL say.

Look at my H answers refering to OW 2 as times goes by.

WH: We just exchange info, it's just business talk.

WH: Actually she's a very good contact, she already knows a lot of people in "x" sector, she might give me lots of Info. (He has always been the one to give her the fresh news)

WH: She's just a pour young girl and I felt I needed to support her, she's just a friend and I am like a father to her, that's why we message and mail all the time.

WH: I have no S desire for her at all, she's just a immature young girl. (After the 2 ONS) i think she feels secure with me, because I am the honorable husband and father.

WH: I left home at 1am, to meet her at a bar because I was curious to know what were her problems with her current BF.

WH: I dont know anything about women thinking, how can I know why she send me 6 messages during the night when in Thailand with a boyfriend?
___________

Don't be surprised if it's MUCH more then you imagine.

He will deny, deny, deny because you have no hard proof... if you are sure it's over, all your chances are to make him read MB principals, and focus on radical honesty, and hope he understand it and decide to come clean and tell you everything.

I want to thank all of you for your advice. Drexxell your explanation is exactly what he has claimed for the last 3 months. That he was avoiding trouble. I am trying really hard to believe his explanation but I'm at a really difficult time in our relationship. He destroyed all the trust that I had in him. I don't trust anything that he tells me since he so easily lied to my face for months. I don't know how to rebuild that trust. He is trying to undo the damage that he made. Not only did he keep his "friendship" a secret but at the same time he was treating me horribly. After I found out about the phone calls he verbally abused me for 2 weeks saying things like "I don't think I love you anymore" and "I'm not proud of walking with you" and "the last time we made love I didn't even enjoy it". Now he tells me he has no idea why he said any of those things. He says he has tried to think of why he would say those things when he knows he didn't mean them. He explained that he was angered when I found out about the calls and retaliated by just saying the meanest things to me. I also found out that he wrote to his friend and told him that we are having problems and that the reason for his depression is that he is feeling "horny" for other girls and that he doesn't feel the same for me.

He explained to me that one thing had nothing to do with the other. That is was bad timing that everything was happening to him at the same time. He says that his friendship and the fact that he was verbally abusing me and confused about how he felt for me had absolutely nothing to do with each other. By the way, during all of this, we were planning a baby. WE were planning a baby, not just me. And he says that he panicked and perhaps all of this is a result of that.

He says he's confused about the whole thing and is asking me to please accept his apology and to please forgive him for all of his mistakes.

So tell me, please tell me, if any of this sounds like a man who was caught in an affair or if there is a possibility that he is telling me the truth. Has any of you been in a situation like this.

Has any person out there been in a situation that they coincidentally had a close friendship and at the same time were having problems with their spouse and as a result got accused of having an affair when in reality you never had one. You just had a friend to talk to?

I wish I could give you an answer. I am in exactly the same boat. H is having an EA with a co worker, claims they are "just friends". Only evidence I have are numerous cell phone calls.

People say I am being so naive to think that they are "just friends". That it's probably also a PA.

Still trying to expose to OWH, but he is not in the country at the moment.

Wish H would just come clean and put me out of my misery. I can't stand it anymore!

Yikes, so sad to see you here, but welcome. The first D-day for me I went searching on the internet for help, I didn't find MB, I sure wish I had! So many principles and people here can help you through this.

With everything you describe, it is definitely an EA, if not a PA. Just like others have said, there are many warning signs here, please don't ignore them, I did and many others here did as well. No one wants to believe that there WS lies to them bc of the hurt. Many of us here, even with proof, believe the made-up excuses bc we can't face the truth at that time. So the question is, are you ready to deal with your WH having an A? It really isn't an easy question to be honest with yourself about.

Most all WS's say they are "just friends". Most all are secretive, which is part of the fun of being in the A, so they say. The amount of phone calls is a big clue. I noticed my WH's cell phone bill had a work no. listed which he called every morning on his way in and every evening on his way home. He also shared an office with the OW. His explanation is it was work related, yeah right. I didn't push it any further bc I was afraid of the truth, I went inward and was depressed. He made sure he grabbed all cell phone bills after that. I kept questioning where they were and he would say he didn't know. This was in 03/2003, I didn't have the hard evidence until 9/2003. Even then I was desperate for the M to survive. If I had come here, one of the first things people would advice me was to expose. Which is what I advise you to do. Is the OW married? If so, it is imparitive that you expose. Now, in order to do that, you may need more evidence than what you have. There are people on the boards that can better advise you on this, but here are a few suggestions. If he is spending a large amount of time on the computer at home, clicks to another screen when you are around so you can't see what he is doing, those are red flags, I would put a key logger on it. If your WH's computer is a work computer, you can't do that though. I would try to put a voice-activated recorder in his car, I believe you can get them at Radio-Shack I've read here.

The way your WH treated/treats you is also a common theme to people in A's. The WS villianizes the spouse in order to rationalize their behavior. They re-write history, they say they don't know if they ever loved you, they say they love you but not in love with you. They say they aren't attracted to you anymore, some have more SF than before in order to hide it. They blame all the M problems on the BS, and their own personal problems. It is very strange, but no matter if the person in the A is a WH or WW, they have almost a script. That too provides some comfort to the BS as they can see their WS is acting out like others in the same sitch. Lots of BS's and some of the WS's here have gone on anti-depressants (AD's).

Please keep reading here. It is very early to forgive, I wouldn't focus on that right now.

Also take good care of yourself, and if you have kids, them as well.

DBH - how recently did this all come to light?

Your reactions and questions are very typical. You are "normal" to feel the way you do. We validate your feelings.

So, how do regain trust and build a new, better marriage?

Before tackling that task, I recommend you see some perspective.

Read around this forum about the stories of others. See how familiar you story sounds. See the similarities you have with so many other betrayed spouses.

But then, notice something a little less typical of the other story tellers: his affair is over. Not to diminish your current agony, it could be worse.

Hence my first question, how recent is your discovery? If it's real fresh, give yourself some time to get your footing and gain some perspective. You might be way ahead of the game. Even then, swift resolutions are not the norm. It likely took a long time for the crisis to develop, it'll take a long time to resolve it, but the probability of success is quite good.

I am sorry you are here. This site will help you alot with what you are going through.

There is an old saying if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

Trust is the foundation of marriage. If you build on a bad foundation your house will certainly crumble. If you never fix the foundation you will just keep building just to watch it crumble later. At some point you will either stop building on the faulty foundation or fix the foundation then build.

No matter what type of liar he is, which is important, you can't trust a liar. There are plenty of ways to catch him. Spy software on the computer, gps etc. If he is going to force you to catch him before he admits it then thats what you will have to do. Sad but true.

I am the BS in our relationship but I am a man. In my 37 years on this planet I have never invested emotionally in a woman without wanting a physical relationship. And most men I know wouldn't either. Does your WH love going to the mall with you?

Finally if you were having this type of relationship or contact with another man what would your WH say. Would he be ok with that? I don't think so. So why would he think it is ok for him to do it.

Worthatry

I discovered this on Feb 8. I was able to backtrack the phone calls to September. The first one was in 9/05 and then none until 11/05 which is precisely the time that we were planning our baby. Then starting 11/15 the calls became daily. At first 2 - 10 minutes and around 3x a day to 1/2 hour - 2 hours 10x a day, 7 days a week. What hurts so much is the lies and the fact that he had absolutely no respect towards me or our marriage. It's as if he was a single man doing whateve he wanted. He called on our anniversary, xmas went shopping with her to the mall and drove her in MY car, New Years, you name it, they were on the phone. He claims that he panicked about the baby and lost perspective of life. He claims that he did not know the rules of marriage. He says that since he was not having a physical affair that he wasn't doing anything wrong and that he did not measure the amount of times they spent on the phone. I find it really hard to believe. But we are all different and I am doing the one thing that I have never done to anyone ever before, and that's give them a 2nd chance. I pray he doesn't disappoint me.

I pray things go well for you.

My H is the same. Doesn't feel there is anything wrong with "just talking" on the phone, be it several times a day. I have no idea if it's gone to a physical affair yet, I'm sure it has. He has his own place now. Wants to see if he wants to be married to me or not.

At least your H is remorseful and living with you. Mine doesn't think he did anything wrong, but won't talk about it to me.

I've come to the conclusion that he likes being a single guy on his own, not having anyone tell him what to do and he'll never come back to me.

You are in my prayers.

Thanks CatGirl

You know what my biggest problem right now is. That he did this in the first place. I can't get over the fact that he made me feel so bad and he verbally abused me all for what? So that he can beg and cry for forgiveness. I just don't get it. My H is a man, a grown man, not a little kid, but he sure behaved like one and the funny thing is that I had a college friend and when I told my H that this guy used to like me in college he immediately asked me to cut all ties to him. So I did. All of these years I complied with his request and this guy was just my friend, nothing further. But I guess my H felt threatened since he knew that at some point this guy liked me. What I think is the saddest part out of all of this is that my H made me feel guilty for even keeping this friendship and I ended all contact with my friend and he turns around and does this. You should see him now. He cries every day, he's home every single day right after work. He calls me every time he's leaving a place just so that I know where he is and I have asked him to stop that. I am not his mother. I have never asked him to check in with me and I am not about to start that now. Eventually I will find out the real truth. The truth always comes out. Now my biggest problem is that my feelings have changed for him. I used to think about him all the time and I was always concerned about him and after he did this to me, it's almost as if I don't care about him. I don't even know if I love him anymore. I am still very angry that he did this to me, too angry for my own good but as far as feelings for him, they are gone. I don't want him to touch me, kiss me, hug me, nothing. Do you feel the same? Does everyone feel the same after discovering an affair whether emotional, physical or just a "frienship". I need to talk to people who understand me, I feel like breaking things I'm so angry at him and I know this is not good for me. Help......

Deceived

Step off of the ledge.

You are not crazy and you have a right to be angry.

I do not feel the same and I don't think most people do.

When he checks in with you it sounds like he is trying to be considerate.

When he cries it might be remorse or guilt getting the best of him.

Trust me you care about him or you wouldn't be here. If you loved him before you probably love him now. You are just very hurt right now and that is understandable.

Work on yourself right now do not break anything though because you will end up cleaning it up.

Of course your feelings have changed and there are good reasons for that. If you give it time they may change again for the better.

I have had one hope since D Day and that is that my marriage will be better then it was before the A. Different but better.

Good luck. If you like coffee go to starbucks. If you like bath's take a bath. Do something nice for yourself you will feel better.

Hiya DBH,

Sorry you're here, but take off your shoes and come on in.

These are your feelings. You're entitled to them.


He just realized that the potential is there for him to lose what might be to him the greatest thing he's ever known. Personally, I think that whoever taught you that it's bad for men to cry was wrong. You're angry and hurt and rightly so, but in there somewhere, try to understand that he's angry and hurt too, but with himself. Those are HIS feelings and emotions. Something to think about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Sounds to me like he wants to regain your trust and doesn't know how. There are MANY BSs (betrayed spouses) on this sight that would give their right arm for a spouse that would call when they're leaving work and give access to e-mails and the like. Something about the gift horses's mouth comes to mind here. If that behavior really bugs you, though, you should tell him how it makes you feel and suggest a replacement behavior that is more acceptable to you.


Sometimes, anger can be so intense that it pushes out any other emotion. You're correct in that too much anger can be unhealthy. If you are concerned, there are anti depressants and the like available. Ask your doc what s/he thinks. By the way, welcome to the emotional roller coaster. Please keep all hands, feet and other objects safely inside the car at all times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

At this point, it is my advice for you to get His Needs:Her Needs and read it together. Take the Emotional Needs questionaire together too. I bet there's a very good chance that the two of you stopped meeting each others emotional needs or your ENs changed and you two didn't pick up on it.


Me, personally, I don't feel like I have lost my love for my WW (wayward wife), but darned tootin I'm angry and hurt. You will find a lot of mixed situations here. Some, the BS wants to leave and the WS is hanging on for dear life. Others, it's the opposite. And some are just plain messed up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But this is your story and your feelings and there are people who feel just like you feel. Read some of these threads. You'll see people saying what you're saying word for word. You'll see people describing what their spouses are saying and it'll be word for word what your husband is saying.

Welcome to the family. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Drex

You're the greatest. Thanks for all of your advice and for breaking things down for me. The emotional roller coaster is so serious. This has to be the worse thing that has ever happened to me so far and I hate it. Prior to this mess I was the happiest person in the world, I never had a sad day, ever. And depression was never even a thought. Now, ever since this mess, I don't laugh as often, I'm always thinking, I'm always angry, I can't look at him, I want to be alone all the time, my heart aches and aches and the pain is unbearable at times, I cry all the time, I'm crying now, I can't stand myself. I wish and pray and pray some more that this was just a nightmare and that I would wake up. I wish that my H wasn't such a weak person. I wish he was upfront with me from the very beginning and not 6 years later. I wish he had more consideration for me just like he's trying to do now. I wish I could have foreseen this and spared myself all of this agony. All I do is wish and I can't seem to make myself stop. I will not use any anti-depressants; I don't use any meds, I'm one of those "the body heals itself" kind of people and I don't ever use meds for anything no matter how strong the pain might be. Now I understand what it's like for people to feel this type of pain; it is deep and it's very painful and I hate that he did this to me. Because of this I will be a different person. You know how they say a marriage can survive this and be better than before, I doubt it very much, the doubt will forever linger there no matter what. At least with me that's what it's like. Once I lose trust in a person, if I ever continue to be their friend, the doubt forever remains. I trusted this man just like I'm sure every betrayed spouse trusted their spouse and I don't care at all what his excuses was for betraying me, there is NO excuse, absolutely no excuse that can validate him betraying me.

I know he's trying. He's trying really hard to make up for what he did but right now, it's not good enough. Do you know what he said to me while he was "helping" out his "friend". We were planning our baby and I was concerned if I was going to get pregnant that particular month or not and I made a comment about it and he said to me "all you ever talk about is the f'ing baby". Little did I know that he was "helping a damsel in distress" and that he was so involved with her problems that he dismissed what was happening in our home.

I'll be really honest with you, I have been a really supportive wife. No matter what he ever needed he always counted on me. Do you know what his complaint was, that I didn't need him. And that just the way that I helped him he wanted to help someone else and that it made him feel like a man to help someone else because I didn't need any help. He said I was too independent and that she wasn't so she depended on him to help her.

Now Drex, you're a man, he called this woman at any time any day any hour. He tells me that he did this to check up on her and to see if she was taking care of whatever issues she had at the time. Now one incident comes to mind. We went away with a few friends and spent the weekend with our friends. While away he called her 16 times. 16 times in 2 days. Is this just a "friend"? When I ask him about it he tells me the same story, that he called her at 12:30 a.m. to find out if she took care of something they had spoken about earlier.

Whatever......I'm so over this fool.

DBH - do you want to save your marriage?

.....or do you want to wallow in self pity?

WAT

Deceived,
We have all felt as strongly as you in the first few months. It's normal and will ease a bit with more time. I have almost no memory of the first 2 months past D day. It was too painful to exist, so I blocked it out. I am seven months past now and feel much stronger. I am free of obsessive thoughts and mostly in an even emotional place. I would not say happy yet, but I believe it will come. THis rebuilding a marriage is hard and takes lots of time. It is stressful for both BS and WS. I just go day by day and focus on what makes me feel better.

DBH,

I don't post much at all on the weekends so I'm getting caught up now.

Slow down and take a breath. Your pituitary gland is already working overtime sending out massive quantities of hormones. Adding lack of oxygen to the brain cells will only intensify the effect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Of course you'll be a different person. If someone experiences something like this and doesn't change, they need professional help. A person is defined by his/her experiences. As far as the doubt, before you were married, I'm sure you thought to yourself, "I wonder if he's serious about what he says. I wonder if he's being completely honesty with me." Those thoughts/doubts didn't dissolve overnight.


You're right. There is no excuse. You're entitled to be angry. If you have to vent something that could potentially ruin your marriage flat out, though, do it here first and give us the chance to talk you out of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sometimes it helps to just vent to someone who is detached instead of lashing out at the person that hurt you. Some of us can tell you it's hard to talk with your foot in your mouth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


No, it's not good enough and it'll seem like it won't be good enough for a while yet. You don't trust that he's sorry or what he's changed about himself will stay changed. You're emotionally defensive and for good reason. Yes, be suspiscious and protect your emotions. One thing the body needs to heal itself is time, right?


Awww, come on, would it be that hard to "play" helpless every now and then, bat your eyes and say with a southern accent, "Oh, if only some big strong man would come along and change that light bulb for me... what ever shall I do?"

Ok, maybe that's a little think, but you get the point. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


<grinz> Last time I checked, I was a man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No, she's not just a friend. Funny you convey that story. I found out about my WW As because a guy called my house at 12:45 AM. WW tried to play it off as a "friend just calling to check on me." Laughable.

You're going to recall all kind of moments in the past where he said this and you believed that and it's going to make you mad all over again. Eventually, you run out of things to remember. Keep your chin up.

WAT is right about something. You're wallowing. I ask any member on this board to show me a BS that didn't wallow in the very beginning and then didn't come back to wallow again once or twice. It's natural. You're hurt and you want someone to come make it feel better. WAT is "battle hardened", if you will. He just wants you to stand up and decide. I don't think he's being unempathetic. I'm sure he'll let us know if I'm wrong in saying that.