SHM ...

Thanks! This is a skill that I have always been lacking in. Not that I'm dishonest (I'm practically see-through when I lie), but I have never learned how to have real, open conversations, even with my H. I grew up NOT having those kinds of conversations ... we did not ever talk about feelings or problems in my family. That might make other people uncomfrotable. You just sucked it up and got by.

So maybe that's my problem here and why I'm having a hard time figuring out how to do this? It seems so elementary, but when it comes to important, serious things, I've never been great at figuring out what I'm supposed to talk about or how to get H (or anyone, really) to open up and talk to me.

I guess I need to learn how to do that.

Start standing up for yourself by having the conversations on your terms.

It doesn't have to be a back and forth dialogue and on big issues [esp if infidelity is involved] I don't agree that it even should be.

I suggest even telling him that you agree that you have been passive..and that tonight..you have decided to listen to him..and you will decide when you are ready to give your .02.

That sounds good, and makes sense. I would like to hear from him, first. Then I can have time to digest and respond.

Plus I liked your point earlier about being coy and keeping him a little off-guard and not knowing what to expect.

Thanks again, Noodle. I really appreciate all your help.

Yeah..

It's not the point..but it's frosting..it will probably have that effect so lick it off and enjoy.

Thanks for the help on how to handle the discussion tonight, that was my immediate concern and it helps to have a plan.

Now that that feels settled to me, I've been replaying a lot of our MC session today. H said a couple of things that are really killing me. How do I NOT take this stuff personaly? How do I get it not to hurt so much?

He said that some days are "all good" but that some days he absolutely dreads the thought of coming home and doesn't want to see me and just cringes at the thought of even having to hug me. That comment sent me over the edge and I was crying, trying hard not to totally break down.

The other thing he said was that someone had asked him if he was just staying with me because it was easier. He said that struck a nerve because it would be much easier to get out, and that staying with me was the hardest thing he'd ever done. He was really irritated that someone might suggest that it was easy or comfortable to stay with me.

How the he11 am I supposed to react to statements like that?? Why am I working so hard to save this marriage if he's so disgusted by me?? Don't I deserve better than that?? I'm the one who was cheated on here. I don't want a husband who feels trapped or stuck with me, or who doesn't want to be with me. I deserve someone who loves me and cherishes me and is proud of me and WANTS me. This hurts almost as much as first finding out about the A ... I don't understand what's so wrong with me that he's suddenly disgusted to come home to me.

He doesn't know, either. He said he couldn't pin down a reason for feeling like that, kept telling the MC that I'm a great wife, that the guys at work are jealousabout how well I take care of him, how his dinner is always made, the house is always taken care of and peaceful and happy when he gets home from work, the kids are always taken care of and he doesn't come home to discipline problems, that I don't get loud with him or nag, that we have fun together, blah blah blah ... but he still cant' stand to come home to that and thinks it would be easier to get out.

That is so incredibly painful to hear. That stuff is killing me right now. I'm trying to pull myself together before he comes home for our "talk" tonight, but I'm just dying inside right now.

Do all WS's say things like this? Do they all feel that way? Is this typical or am I doing something terribly wrong here??

Ami...I don't know your whole story...is WH still involved in A? He sounds like it....justification for A.

Last year we attempted MC for a few weeks. WH was involved at the time but I hadn't been able to prove anything . He threw a lot of that kind of talk around.

*** . . . someone had asked him if he was just staying with me because it was easier. He said that struck a nerve because it would be much easier to get out, and that staying with me was the hardest thing he'd ever done. He was really irritated that someone might suggest that it was easy or comfortable to stay with me.***

Ami, dear . . . this one is too simple.

Get a dictionary and look up the word "guilt".

There's your explanation.
Mulan

Hi, ChaCha.

My H has ended the A, but still works with OW. He and his supervisors and her supervisros have taken some extreme steps to monitor the two of them -- I even have access to his work phone records and recordings of any phone calls that happen between them (wich there haven't been any lately), etc.

That's not NC, and it's not good enough for me, so I consider the A to still be active, athough he would disagree. He has gone out of his way to provide lots of evidence that he's always where he says he is and with who he says he'll be with.

I don't think he's trying to justify the affair, he's taken full responsibility for that and never has tried to justify it.

I think he was being honest. Which just makes it hurt even worse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mulan.

You think his guilt makes him resent me? Is there something that either of us can do about that?

I think it's probably good for him to feel some guilt, but not to the point that he's disgusted to be around me and doesn't want to come home....

Post deleted by rainbowbeliever

Rainbow said it better than I did. It's not you that disgusts him - it's just that being around you also means facing the damage and destruction that his cruel and thoughtless actions caused and THAT makes him feel all icky.

Sure, it would have been much easier for him to run away, but at least he didn't do that.

Just don't let him start blaming you, because that's probably next. He will see how much of his own "disgust" he can dump on you to ease his burden of guilt. Do not accept any of it.

Hang tough and be someone he can respect. Love follows respect. I think you're doing great. And if you feel yourself faltering, just look up that "PMS at the MC's office" post you made not long ago. My favorite post ever! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mulan

It's so hard not to take those things personally. I'll keep trying to remind myself that it's the guilt and drawn-out withdrawl process that make him say that ... it's just so incredibly painful to hear. Hard to stay strong and confident and capable and all the other things I'm trying to get back to being when he says things like that.

Anyway, our "talk" last night was very short. I asked him what he'd like to discuss in these conversations, and he said "whatever we need to talk about". I asked if he had anything specific that he wanted to talk about right now. He didn't, but was sure that I should. He said maybe I won't have things all the time, but he wanted me to start bringing things up when I DO have them, and this was the time to do it. When he gets off work in the morning, I usually wake up and hang out with him for an hour or so while he eats and showers and winds down, before we both go back to bed. He said that this was the best time to talk M issues, and he thinks we should be doing a lot more talking than we have been, although he didn't know specifically what we should be talking about. He said "that's up to you." I said that I wanted to think about it and have some time to process, and he was fine with that.

So I guess he's ready and wanting to discuss the relationship. I just don't think either of us knows specifically what we need to talk about to try to get some healing?

Ami - you could start with discussing the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA). Is he agreeable to using POJA?

Will he agree to spend at least 15 hours a week with you?
Mulan

Thanks!

We've never talked about the POJA, I don't know what he'd think of it, but it wouldn't hurt to bring up. I need to read up on it better before I present it to him, I don't have a good grasp on it.

I'll also ask him about the 15 hours a week. We do currently work pretty hard at getting time together, but a lot of it, especially on Sundays, is family time that includes the kids. Does that count toward the 15 hours? We have contrasting schedules -- I work a normal 8-5 and he works nights Tuesday through Saturday. Time is scarce, but we usually get some squeezed out.

Ami...I didn't read your thread, but your title right now took me back...

Yes, listening to WH talk in MC was truly, deeply, amazingly painful...devastating...

And listening, not reacting, staying blank took everything I had in me...and gave me a huge boost of self-respect. It was like changing igneously (oh, 2Long, don't say anything) in those four sessions before it got much easier.

I had to choose from being WH's old reactive wife...or WH's new, improved FWW...and I am proud to say...I stayed new...with a lot of breathing, a hopper on my head, and a vow to respect my WH...

Not killing...just really hard...for a superwoman. And you are. You can do this...recovery isn't joy and celebration...that comes later...my DH and me wake up with gratitude in our hearts, first thought, silent kisses...we're amazed how good life is...how lucky we are to have one another (he said it over the weekend...yippee!)

Earn your own respect...and give it...I promise, it is freedom and joy and responsibility and love.

LA

H has two interviews next week, both in the state, but out of OW's reach. He got the time off to go to them, is staying with my sister while he's there, so she'll be able to "keep an eye on him".

It should be good, right?

But the last few days, I've been really wondering why in the world I'm going through all of this???? H doesn't care, so why am I trying so hard? He hasn't worn his wedding ring since before d-day 1. He is not affectionate unless I initiate it, and he acts like he is "putting up with me" all the time. I already whined here about his comments in MC ... he feels trapped, he thinks it would be easier to get out, he sometimes can't stand the thought of coming home to me...

So why am I going through all of this? Why even try to save this marriage? You know what I loved about my H? His sense of honor and integrity. That I could trust him. I married him beacuse I KNEW I would never have to worry about him, of all people in the world, cheating on me.

But now all of that is gone. So what is there to save? I can afford my house on my own. I will get to see the kids a lot, but wouldn't have any responsibility for them ... It would be fun to get to be the "fun" "Disney-Land" parent for a change. (They are step-children, we've had full custody for most of their lives, but I have no legal right to them).

Maybe he's right -- Maybe it WOULD be easier to get the he11 out. He'd be a lot more screwed than I would if we divorced. I would be better off, get to do what I want to do instead of take care of someone who apparently couldn't care less. My income would just go to supporting myself, not his hobbies or the kids or anything else like that.

OR I could give up my job and my house and my life just to move across the state and start all over again with a man who isnt' sure if he wants me or not .. and all just because he can't keep his [email]d@mn[/email] zipper up?

Why? Why try to save this? Is it worth all of this? Wouldn't it be easeir to just get the pain over with and cut my losses?

I woke up this morning still feeling this way. Is this a normal BS thing?

In the beginning I was so despearate to save things, win him back, have a great marriage again ...

But maybe I'm just prolonging the inevitable. Maybe we don't have anything worth saving and this is all just a big waste of time and pain.

Is it normal to go through these feelings? Do I just work through them and I'll be ok, or is this the beginning of the end for me?

Post deleted by rainbowbeliever

Thanks, RB.

I'm just so sick of all this. I'm not sure if this is what I really want anymore.

Some of the books I've read say, basically, "fake it till you make it" ... kind of "act caring and you will FEEL that way." Well, I've been acting and acting and acting and the feeling is just going away more and more, it's not growing.

I feel the same way you guys do.

I'm certailny no expert.

He is coming home today and part of me wants to run to him and part of me wants to just walk away.

I have only been going through this for 2 months I don't know about you but I am also starting to wonder wouldn't it just be easier to start fresh??

I guess nothing good comes easy?

Blind