If you tell her you want complete NC, why would she decide to leave? The OM doesn't want to resume the affair, correct?

So she'd leave her marriage and family just so she can visit a couple of friends, one of which was a former affair partner? If the answer to that question is yes, then I'd say 'cya later' to wifey-poo.

Stop hesitating on your boundaries. Don't say maybe one day, or possible in the future. NC is forever, let it sink into her.

She is just soo angry and she hates to be in the same room as me, I take this as part of the widthdraw and coming out of the fog, but I keep getting the I AM TRYING TO CONTROL HER crap.. Even if I help her bring grocerys in from the car, that is trying to control her, cleaning up after dinner, trying to control her.. So to tell her NC with entire family will be trying to control her and keep her from her friends... But, I will do it for my sanity, if she says no way and she gives up, at least I tried for almost 2 months..

Dr Harley is so adamant about no contact for life with former lovers that he says not to even go to a high school or church reunion if a former lover will be there.

No Contact means NO CONTACT

Did you expose this affair to the elders/deacons/church pastor?

I did not expose it to the church, the church is hurting and the OM has done anything and everything I have asked.. He saw he made a mistake as soon as it happened and he is in MC with his wife and they are moving on.. His wife does not work and they have 3 young kids, I am not going to get him fired and never able to work in a church again. If he was trying to keep it going, or not as sorry as he is, then I might, but I know people pretty well, and I know where his heart is now.... He is human and I have forgiven him.

He is not doing everything you have asked unless you failed to ask for no contact. Your WW may not be willing to go no contact, but if he goes no contact it is going to make it a heck of a lot harder for her to contact him.

I realize that the betrayed spouse is in their own kind of fog, and I am not trying to sound mean, but Man, your fog is THICK.

If he is so willing to do what you ask, you better ask him real quick like right this minute to tell your wife their can be no contact. Tell him to tell his wife that there is to be no contact - no camping trip - no nothing!

I've had a thought that keeps coming back to me everytime I read your thread and your posts. The reason the OM and his W want to keep doing things with you and your ww is so that others in the church do not realize there is a problem. If two close couples suddenly stopped speaking, others are going to suspect something is up. Makes you wonder if this is not a pattern with him. Makes you wonder if it is just to guarantee he doesn't lose his position.

I'm not saying you need to put it on the church marquee, but the church pastor needs to know.

You all know.. I feel accountable to everyone on this board that helped me but I do not feel I have the desire to work on a marriage that for the last 2 years was awful...

After thinking and reading the wonderful posts above.. I have finally seen what my wife has done.. I told her NC with OM, but she could keep OMW's as a friend, they were not close and only talked every now and then.. Well, guess what now, they are best buddies and guess where she told me she was going today.. For a bike ride with OMW's on a trail.. Guess who has off today, OM, so I called OM and asked what he was doing, he said riding bikes with his W, there kids and my wife... Sounds like a broken NC to me, and she said it was going to be her and OMW..
So, I have always thought that I did not want to regret not trying hard enough and thinking I could of actually fixed it when looking back years from now..

So, I am going to have a nice long talk with W tonight and tell her COMPLETE NC with entire OM's family 4 ever... It is what I should of done from day 1, like I was told, and if she does not agree and leaves, I did all I could to keep her and will be able to sleep at night finally... If she does agree, then she will not be going camping next weekend with them..

I am confused ....
Forgive is different than forget.

It's good for you to forgive OM that violate your M once. Are you forgetting that OM is still THE OTHER MAN ?.

JMVHO. NC ... or exposed ... let OM and WW knows. Be ready to back what you would ask for w/ plan B.

-rh-

duglas.

I'm a BH. My FWW moved in with the OM. She is now at home, and we are 2.5 years past that time in our lives. My heart still bleeds from it. It is very difficult for a man to recover from this (and women too, I'm just speaking to you from the male perspective). At some point here very soon, if you want to look back at this time and say, hey, I screwed up alot of things getting there...but at least when it came time, I got that right... you need to make a quick change.

That man is responsible for his family. I don't care if he loses his job. If he is leading people at a church...how well do you suppose his advice is? Expose him. Give him his own family to deal with instead of your own. The only way to kill the affair is to expose it YOURSELF. Don't believe anyone else who tells you they told someone...do it yourself so that you know it is done. Have any evidence you need handy.

I know you feel like the victim and powerless. On one side of it you are...she betrayed you. However, you get to choose if you want to recover, not her. If you want to, then you get to decide what you will tolerate, not her. If you tell her you want x,y, and z, then she must decide if she is willing..if not, then you have your decisions. She won't comply = you ask her to leave. If she refuses, then you get get your ducks in a row and begin the filing process. It's not a bluff, you had better intend to take it through to the end.

But, you see... SHE DOESN'T BELIEVE YOU WILL DO IT. SHE HAS NO RESPECT FOR ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. SHE CONSIDERS YOU A JOKE, RIGHT NOW.

I'm sorry to say that to you...but, I had to hear it myself at one point...and it was coming from my own mouth. When I got the courage to say 'I'm done.', guess what...recovery began.

-hang in there

OK guys...

I have been embrassed to acutally write anymore to you all... WW has been secertly emailing OM from her mothers email account and I asked if she talked to OM and she lied to my face and said NO.. What is worse, the darn emails were crap like " I am dieing here because I hurt you" ( she did not talk to him when she saw him and I was there too).. and she said " I would never let this ( or anything) come between us".. I confronted WW, OM, and OMW about these emails, they all say they are OK, even OMW when I sent them to her.. She said she knew about them!!!!!!!!!

I told her complete NC with entire OM's family and she said she wants a seperation.. I told her she can leave but she has to leave my daughter, she can take our son because he is still nursing..
But her relationship with her mother has always been strained, and now WW needs mom so guess what, mom is trying to screw us up and changing things I tell her to make me look spiteful.. So now Mom in law, OM and OM's wife are all telling her one thing, and me trying to talk sense into her... I emailed OM and told him that he said if I ever asked that he would do whatever I asked and I told him to have NO CONTACT from anyone in his family to anyone in my family.. My WW called me yesterday bitching me out about it and I thought it might of worked but then I looked at her cell phone and she talked to OMW almost an hour yesterday and OM and OMW both called the house last night while I was gone..

Guess it is time to call the church and get his butt fired.. If he would of done the right thing, I might not have, but now he is about to be the cause of my kids growing up in a broken home...
At least if I loose my family, I will make sure he can not do this ever again.....

Duglas,

You're in thoughts and prayers...please do not feel ashamed for your choices...your trust.

We've been there and had to learn from it. Know your power...this is an unusual place where the OMW is aiding the affair.

Yes, please tell the church pastor...and do not be shocked if he isn't fired...you are sharing truth...which WW, OM, OMW are not doing...

Would you consider not allowing her to take your baby son? She would have to stop nursing...however, that is part of the consequences of an affair. Do you really believe it is worse to stop nursing than to divorce? Your children need you, Duglas...

You're not alone.

LA

I am pretty sure he would be fired.. I would not say he went too far with my wife and had an EA with her, I would say that I have told him to stop and he will not and I feel he took advantage of my wife while she was post parden and at a place that he took advantage of her.. And I would not say he has to be fired, I will say FIRE him or I am sueing the church, the sponser chuch and calling the local tv station...

WW will not agree to NC, and will not leave at all, and telling her to leave 4mo and 3.5YO will never happen.. But I am going to tell her that option.. Now I have told her

Complete NC with OM's family
or leave with 4mo till she can.. but I can change it to leave with no children...

But, I go back to do I really want someone who can lie to my face, will I ever be able to trust her again, do I want too... Is she worth it, I know my kids are, but can me and WW be happy and show our children the right example, if not, then apart might be better..
WW says I can not tell anyone about OM because he will loose his job, what does that matter to me, do I have a moral obligation??? NO, Is he my friend??? NO, Should I care about his wife and 3 kids? NO, He seems happy to break up my marrige, why should I care if his kids cannot eat from his continuing actions..??? But where is the line on should and spiteful...

But why in the world should I LIE to mutual friends about who the other person is??? He is the reason.. I need to shoot it from roof tops...

UGGG.... Sorry, just venting a little..

Duglas,

Stay present.

You are handing yourself more pain by considering a future, married to a liar and a cheat...you are increasing your pain.

I am asking you to let go of the response you might or might not receive from the church. I am asking you to let go of the response you might or might not get from your WW.

I am asking you to value your truth and to share it. Expose to everyone. I am asking you to consider your family right now...where your treasure is...and know it as your treasure.

This is the reality we all live in, Duglas...believing we have control where we do not is damaging. Tell the whole truth to the church. Tell your whole truth to yourself.

Your WW can say her truth...ask you to choose to not expose...God gave you choice...respect your WW's opinion...and do not believe in it. Your truth matters. They are the ones choosing...this is what you're choosing. Stay true and say it all...all of it. Do not bank on any particular response...know you spoke your truth and there is God's reward in that alone.

There is no spite in truth. There is no revenge. Those come from your intent when you share truth. Know your intent. If you make it pure...it will be. And it matters.

There are natural consequences and logical consequences to our actions. Do not get in the way of the natural ones (withholding truth gets in the way), and know that the logical ones, the ones you impose, such as no contact or no marriage, are still a consequence of THEIR actions...crossing your boundaries.

Vent all you want...I'm not attacking you. You were loved before you were born...and remain in that love.

Your WW is choosing to put a relationship with others above her marriage. Her choice. Respect that. Respect you have no control over her choice. Nor she over yours. Own your stuff and know your power. Do not allow yourself to manipulate outcomes, strategize or contrive. Live in truth and ease your own pain. Stay present.

You can do this.

LA

I am new to the thread - just read all the way through it.

Yes expose him to all - the church - all your friends - family - his extended family if you know them and any professional organisations he belongs to. Like for counselling etc. this is very important to protect others from him.

Ignore your wife - she is listening in another language that interprets everything as "He is wrong and cruel and I am a victim of him". I call it "fogspeak". Don't waste your breath and don't warn her or let her know when or how you will expose.

You are in my prayers,

SP

Trust me, this man is not the first person in the ministry to lose a job because of his relationship with a congregational minister. To shelter him from the reality of what he has done is to give him permission and a chance to do it again.

Now, I personally know some 'fallen' minsters. One had honesty/integrity issues. He ended up embarassing his family and his congregation and causing them national attention. In the end, he lost his job, his career, his wife and his children.

The other had an inappropriate relationship with a church minister. He lost his job and moved from the area. He and his wife are doing well. He found another church hundreds of miles away. He has since moved on to another church - and it was a good move for all. In fact, he took the position formerly held by the other minister. And, before he was hired, he wanted to personally tell the congregation to which he wished to come about his indiscretion. They considered the record and offered him the position. And, I am glad that this man is the minister where I worship. He has brought much healing and his wife and he are able to minister to many couples facing similar situations.

Yes, there should be consequences for his acts. The man can not get the help he needs if no one speaks up.

well, I told her no contact with OM's family till son is 6 months old, which is 45 days or I would expose to church, she said she hated me but would do it for them...

So, as long as there is NC, I will not expose, because maybe the "fog" will lift and she will realse what she is doing.. If not, in 45 days, everyone will know..

I am sure the OM will be most grateful that you helped him hide his affair so he can resume it when you aren't looking. You even allowed her to resume it when your son is 6 months old! You are a REAL FRIEND to the affairees, Duglas, and I am sure they appreciate your help.

Unfortunately, you are not a friend to your marriage or your children's family. As long as you persist in avoiding conflict by protecting the man who is out to DESTROY your marriage and children's family, you are nothing more than an ENABLER. You are aiding and abetting the DEMISE of your marriage and your family.

until you expose this affair you will be dealing with it. She will just find a new, sneakier way to communicate. Or she may wait 45 days and then restart her affair, since you gave her permission!

WHY IS IT OK TO HAVE AN AFFAIR IN 45 DAYS AND NOT NOW???

Duglas, please hear me. You are doing nothing but PROLONGING the inevitable. You have given her permission to resume her affair in 45 days. And guess what?? You will have the SAME PROBLEM in 45 days!! Why not just handle the problem NOW instead of putting it off and treating yourself and your kids to 45 more days more TORTURE??

The sooner this affair is exposed, the sooner contact will end. And contact must end FOR LIFE. Not for 45 days! The sooner contct ends, the sooner your marriage gets into recovery.

Please stop setting yourself up for future DISASTER by trying to avoid conflict. TRYING TO AVOID CONFLICT WILL ONLY CAUSE YOU GREATER CONFLICT LATER!

Expose the affair, Duglas, and make it a mandatory condition that contact end FOR LIFE. She should NEVER EVER be in contact with this family AGAIN.

Is this guy the pastor of your church?

I cannot support ML's view enough.

Are you frightened of this man? is there something physical he has threatened you with? Has he got a hold of some kind over you?

Are you afraid that if you expose him you will lose your wife and family?

I can assure you that not exposing him will guarantee you continue to lose your wife and family. they belong to him now, your wife has given them to him - do you get it?

HE OWNS YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR WIFE. God GAVE them to YOU and you are letting your responsibility to God slip. HE made you the guardian of your wife and your children and you have absolved that responsibility by giving in to your wife and this man's desires for you not to expose him.

Do you think God would give him and her another 45 days?

He would look at your poor children and weep for them to see the man who has charge of their and their mother's spiritual safety. Children come under their parents - your children are under her acts and his. She has abdicated you as father by her continued contact, she has no respect for your wishes, she is treating you like a gullible fool. I am sorry the words are so harsh, but she is fooling you over and over.

I am so sad that you cannot see your clear need to clean up your household. It is your responsibility as a Christian father, to keep any contact with any ungodly people PERMANENTLY away from your children and to support your wife in any way necessary to do the same. Letting her off for so long is not Godly and not what He would expect of you. She needs the support of your discipline while hers is AWOL.

If she lost the use of her legs wouldn't your do all the things she couldn't? Right now she has lost the use of her conscience, her marriage commitment and Christian soul - you need to step up to the plate and hit a home run for yourself, your wife, your children and your church.

God is with you and will carry you through this time. I know it is hard - I had no one in my family or his who would support me - not even my grown children (as he is such a likable man) -- only my church and one friend - but it was enough - and if they hadn't supported me - I would have gone it alone - when another had stolen your family and your spouse, what do you have to lose?

They are gone my friend - unless you act and act quickly the loss of them will continue happen over time - day by day - hour by hour - minute by minute in excruciating detail it will play and replay over and over - different day, different month - same happening - different excuse - same terrible excoriating devastation - over and over -


Haven't you had enough?

In my prayers

Linda

Those are the words with which you began this thread earlier this month, Dug. You admitted then, your wife’s adultery was not a special case. Darned if folks out here didn’t nail it with predictions of what was going to happen.

Now here you are a couple of weeks later. You’ve come back to admit advice you declined to consider was actually right on the mark. You’ve discovered your wife’s adultery is still on and it’s not about to go away. Curiously, to you, she’s been lying. I’m pretty sure you were warned you couldn’t believe a word coming from her mouth but you thought otherwise. Even stranger, you believed this other man when he said he would back off. I KNOW you were told he couldn’t be believed. You’re amazed it turned out that way.

In your last couple of posts, you’ve now told us you’re willing to allow the other man to interact with your children…except they have to be six months old. What in the heck are you thinking? You also seem to be awfully wishy-washy on exposing this obscenity to the church leadership. Fire him…not fire him…sue the church…he didn’t go too far with your wife…he did have an EA with her…he didn’t lead her astray…I seriously do NOT know where you are in this.

I don’t get you, Dug. You think you can take bits and pieces of Dr. Harley’s plan and apply only those you are most comfortable with. You admit you were wrong to discard the words of people who are out here for the sole reason of warning others about what they’ve already experienced. Now, you’re doing it again.

Look, Mister, everything Melody is telling you is “gospel.” If you don’t take charge and expose this to the people who can help you put an end to it, your marriage is forfeit and you’ll lose your family. Do you want that? Dug, it’s time you got to work and quit dithering around. Just DO it.