WW agreed to NC with OM whom she works with. She's taking a month off work to go to her mothers but will be back on the job when she returns.

WW insists that she can handle NC even though OM has to talk to her for work. She says she can shut him out. I believe she has the skills because she iced up on me a couple times when we were dating. I've felt the cold.

On the 2 day drive to her mother's I plan on discussing several things with her including NC. I want to be ready for this conversation. Hoping SH will help her see the importance as well but we'll only have an hour and NC is important NOW so I want to be sure I'm prepped with what I need for the conversation.

Here are a few things that I put together. Looking for links to similar info or more ideas via post. Also lookingfor a NC plan if there is one. Both of us have read the NC portion of SA.

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- What are you going to do if he calls you? – Hang up
- What are you going to do if he emails you? – Delete the message without reading it. Not practical since there are work-related emails.
- How often does he have to be in contact with you for work-related reasons? One email/day? One phone call/day? What is unreasonable contact?

Can you trust yourself? Why take that chance? Why not use every precaution? Did you plan on having an affair? It happened over time, right? You eased into it. What makes you think that with contact you would not ease into it again? What if he becomes “reasonable”? Like I did? Will you dialog with him? Be his “friend”? You cannot BE his friend. You can have no contact with him what-so-ever. I don’t like the idea of you working with him because it’s hurtful to me to think of him seeing you, you seeing him, talking to him, etc.

Also I think it’s dangerous because it was contact with him that lead to the affair in the first place. Those relationship triggers are IN PLACE. This person built a path to your heart. How do you know for sure that path could not open back up? Why not close it off completely to ensure that you’re protecting OUR relationship. That we don’t go through all this work for nothing. I’m not saying that you’ll necessarily get back into your Affair like it was at the peak.

Did you know that ANY relationship with him will set us back? Even something that is casual for you? Do you know I cannot live with that? Do you know it will change the dynamic between us even if you don’t see him? He has to be cut out COMPLETELY. REMOVED.
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BTW a little about OM - will be DV in 6 weeks. Very much in love with WW (told me in an email) and not ready to give her up. Though claims he has too much respect for her to ignore her NC request.

Also, WW has NOT sent a NC letter yet. She told him to NC in a phone call. I've been checking her cell phone records and not once call since. She also showed me some emails and IMs he sent and her response. Also been very detailed about her where-abouts. She said she's send a NC letter but things have been SO crazy for her this week getting ready for the trip I've not pressed her. Just trying to be supportive.

Thanks

MDC,

""She also showed me some emails and IMs he sent and her response""

HER RESPONSE?!? Nonononononononono. Her reponse is contact.

Delete them and block them.

No contact at work?? I think not. It's a different world at work. Somebody will have to quit the job.

Did you expose to Human Resources? Or to anyone or department at work?

k

This will not work. NC means no contact, NOT only work related contact. Insist that she get another job. It is not only to prevent the affair from starting up, but for your well being and protection.

I am afraid you are probably facing a years long on-again, off again affair, my friend. This is a step you don't even want to scrimp on, because you will come to regret it dearly because recovery is impossible.

Every time she sees or speaks to him will put her back to Day 1 of Recovery. Every contact will put YOU back to Day 1 of recovery. She will be in a perpetual state of withdrawal making recovery IMPOSSIBLE.

What you are proposing is the same as sending an alcoholic into the bar every day for drinks. But instead of calling them "drinks" you call them "professional drinks." Do you imagine that an alcoholic can recover by changing the name of the drinks?

It sounds cute and nice, but unfortunately, you cannot change reality by changing definitions. And thus it is so with contact. Contact is contact, regardless of what you call it. You cannot turn an affair relationship back into a professional relationship anymore than you can turn an alcoholic into a social drinker by giving her a new name.

I cannot express to you the absolute importance of no contact because this all hopeless without it. Every day that she works with him is another day you will have to deal with her affair. People here who have scrimped on the step have faced years long affairs and regret it dearly. You will have to decide what is more important to you, your marriage or your wife's job, because it is very unlikely you can have both.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Ok, we always use the alcoholic analogy here, because it is very similar and relevant. You wife is addicted to contact with him, like an alcoholic to alcohol.

So, does it make sense that an alcoholic can recover without quitting alcohol? You wife is basically saying she'll keep drinking, but she'll no longer be an alcoholic. This is not possible. You cannot mentally control addiction like this.

By the way, my wife said the same thing about her OM. Said she could control it. She couldn't. She fell twice before she finally realized she had to quit any contact with him.

I would be very wary as others here have said about continuing to work with OM, especially when he doesn't want to give her up. Also, she needs to come up with the NC plan based on the Harley books. If YOU do it, you impose something on her and it is not with her full cooperation, you see how that differs in her head? You cannot make her hold to NC. She needs to do what you did and plan ahead. My FWH continued his A for so long after I found out and found out and found out and they didn't even work together! NC is very, very hard for some WS.

Hey MDC,

I can't remember the title of your thread that I posted to not long ago, but if I remember correctly, you were struggling with this NC stuff in that post too. Makes sense to start a whole new post on NC if you're still having troubles with it.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but every response you've had to this post basically tells you the same thing. Your marriage absolutley, positively, will not recover if your wife stays in contact with the OM.

As I see it, you have 2 choices. Have your wife quit her job, or get a divorce. If she doesn't quit her job, don't bother wasting years of your life believing you'll still be able to heal your M, just get the divorce and move on with your life. This is how important NC is my friend.

God bless,

KJ

I totally agree with everyone else that NO contact is sooooooo essential if the M is to recover. My H worked within the same company as the OW, but was only in her workplace once a week at the most. Even so, there was No way in ****** that we were going to move forward in recovery as long as he was anywhere near her, not only was it way to easy for the A to resume as they didn't have much face to face contact even during the A. It was sheer torture for me on the days that I knew he would be there. He always knew, and it was inevitable, that the couple of days after him going there I would be right back to the mess I was on D-day. I can't even imagine having to live that agony every single work day!..No way..

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.
Oh sooo true...

I know that she has to leave her job for us to have a chance at a full, healthy recovery. I was looking for "the words" for that conversation.

When I posted this originally I thought we could have a "hybrid" arrangement for a little while but thanks to your posts pulling me back to reality I know that there is not way other than NC. And that anything else is me giving up and giving in like I did for the first affair.

Fortunately she brought switching jobs on a long drive we just had. When I asked her why she was thinking of doing this. The M or A never came up but that doesn't mean she wasn't thinking of that as a reason to look for another job.

So I waited a couple hours and told her I was glad she brought up her job because even though I agreed to her going back I did it too quickly and in truth I did not think I was good for our recovery for her to go back. Too many triggers for her and me. She said "Wel let's work on my resume this week then." So I take that as a good sign.

WW is not talking at ALL about her feelings or the A. I'm doing most of the talking but not bringing up the A at this point. Talking mostly about the changes going on in me. Seems to be having an effect as I see her coming closer to me. She'll be visiting her mother for 3-4 weeks in her homeown surrounded by relatives so I expect she'll continue to "thaw out" as it were. Getting back home to a different job and with NC will, in my mind, will complete the checkliest of elements that must be in place for a successfull recovery. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In the mean time I'm still struggling with what she did - shaking my head and muttering to myself - "I can't believe this is happening." It's almost harder to believe now that she's starting to act like a normal person. When she was fully into the A she was SO alien she didn't feel like my W. Now that I see my W again it's such a contrast to the alien that took over her body that it's harder to accept what she did. If that makes sense.

Are you saying here that your wife is leaving you for a month to go visit her mother....

is this a good time for her to do such a thing...

I think you two need to be together...

but I could just be reading this wrong..

ARK