I think I am looking an external absolution of my guilt.

This is all FWW stuff, and I would love some feedback. I truly, in my heart of heart, the very depths of my soul, feel like I was a repentant FWS when I asked H for reconciliation. I wasn't "settling", I wasn't just "trying to make it right", I knew who I wanted to be and that was a faithful wife to my BH. It took me a long time to get to that point, but once I got it, I really got it.

Now, 8 months after WH's D-day, he is saying that his affair was partly caused by his inability to forgive me. He admitted that he did not realize this until after he started the affair ( I feel like that makes his claim less valid, please correct me if I'm wrong ).

When I came home, I would have done any penance that he had asked. I would have autopsied, dissected, revealed anything, he wanted to sweep it under the rug. He said it was done and over and he was over it. Now he is saying he was mistaken. Our marriage during the pseudo reconciliation seemed amazing to me, very open and loving and completely different than it had been before. I truly had no idea that I had not been forgiven.

I wanted to ask the BSs who are recovering a question. I hear people talking about the rough periods that crop up every now and then. Would there be any justification for a BS to "slip up" and have an affair during on of the post tramatic stress periods. Logically, I think the answer is no. But I carry so much shame, I have decided I am not entitled to divorce my WH for his current affair.

I asked myself, "Jean, what if H had been unfaithful before your A, would that alleviate some guilt in your heart?". And oddly, the answer was no. This is not about anything H has ever done, not about FOM or OW. This is all about who I was, who I let myself become and who I was when I finally straightened up.

I want WH to say that at least he knows that I was truly repentant. I want to drop the pending divorce that I have filed and have him refile as plantiff. My filing seems to affect my perception of my repentance.

I feel he is just doing alot of dancing around and justifying, but I am trying not to take his inventory. I am working on my own guilt and need help with suggestions on how to forgive myself.

Ever heard the saying two wrongs do not make a right....

Since my FWW's A I have had several very good opportunities to have an A. Exactly one year after her A started I was on a business training trip. In my training group was a very attractive woman. We had to work in groups to complete presentations etc. This woman made it abundantly clear to me that what happens there stays there. Hint, Hint. We all went out as a group but she always migrated toward me and I could see where it was going.

I did not have an A. The main reason I didn't is at least my FWW could claim she did not know how much it would hurt me. I did know the pain.

I knew that if I truly wanted my marriage to work I could not do it right back.

BTW my FWW was not doing any of the right things at that time. I found out a month later she had still been telling some really big lies. I still didn't regret my decesion. I personally believe that if I did it to her it would have been worse.

Jean, what do you say we just "cut to chase here?" You've been around the system long enough that there shouldn't be much need left for "easy talk," right?

So here it is: Two wrongs do NOT make a right. The ONLY one responsible for the CHOICE to commit adultery is the Adulterer themself.

"Mommy, he maaaaade me dooooo it!" Unless your husband is still in 1st grade, he can't play the "blame game" for HIS CHOICES.

If a divorce is what you want you can have one. He committed Adultery. It really is that plain and simple.

The "rough periods" in Recovery that you spoke about do NOT include justfications for the former BS to commit adultery themselves in some sort "getting even" rationalization.

If anything, your husband is MORE "guilty" than you were because he knew EXACTLY what and why he was doing what he was doing. He didn't "fall into it." It didn't "just happen." It wasn't anything but a deliberate, calculated, choice to commit the same horrific sin.

Do all Betrayed Spouses "Think" about having their own affair once they are aware that their spouse has been cheating on them? Probably. But most don't "give in" to the feelings that they KNOW are wrong.

Your husband is just weak.

Learn your lesson about adultery. You've paid the "hard price" of the lesson. Build a better future.

God bless.

Thank you for your reply YOH. I struggle with the fact that WH did this after having it done to him. But, it is not like I didn't know that I was causing pain, and I did it anyway.

repentance, atonement, forgiveness...

Do I have to receive H's forgiveness to be right with God? Or it my heartfelt repentance and willingness to make amends, is that enough? It doen't feel like enough, that is why filing for divorce feels wrong, I feel like it negated the amends that I made.

Jean...my story is quite different than most here but a story none the less. I will never "forgive" my FWW for her actions, never. While I do not understand how she made her choices I forgive her for making them. Regardless of opportunity the decision to have an affair and then attempting to justify it is pointless as there is no justification. If you're unhappy with your marriage then leave it before you decide to take up with someone else. It is the epitome of selfishness to do otherwise.

Do I love my wife? Absolutely. Do I love the woman who made those abhorrent decisions? No.... the OM had her and he can keep that woman....

Essentially this was along winded way of saying your H has no excuse, justification, etc. He's a coward for making such an excuse. I think it is a sad statement to say that you probably wonder if he has the pain you do as a WS.....

IMO there is no acceptable justification for having an A, period.

Having said that though, I can see situations in which I as a BS can be tempted to get involved in an A.

When my FWW and I married, we thought that we were perfect for each other. We each felt that we'd found the best possible mate to spend a lifetime with.

Her A two years ago suggests to me that she no longer felt (or feels) that way about me. That the A was effectively ended by the OM, not by her, reinforces this feeling in me. Then there's the issue of her lack of "in-love" feelings for me now, a year since DD and our agreeing to work on our M. Because of this, I find myself wondering if she's still the best possible mate for me to spend a lifetime with. If a situation arises where I meet someone who fulfills my ENs (the top one being openness and honesty) and doesn't carry the baggage that my FWW has now added to our M, it's likely that I might find myself sorely tempted. As to whether or not I'll let it progress to an A, I am hoping that my sense of morality stops me from doing something that I know I'll regret later.

Thank you FH. I want cut to the chase.I am 100% wrong for my affair several years ago. I stopped, came home and was a damn good wife. It is not my fault if H realized (likely while in bed with OW) "Oh yeah, I guess I never did forgive WW".

WH's big arguement is that I am no better than him, we are both adulterers. Agreed wholeheartedly, I will go to my grave with this stain on my soul. But do I deserve any karma credit for being a former adulterer?

I need my guilt, it will keep me on the right path. But I think my guilt stunts my growth and WH takes advantage of that fact.

Like I said, I feel like I am not entitled to this divorce, I need him to divorce me. I was 100% committed to the marriage and not even his affair changed that. So, he says if I drop the D, he will serve me with papers on the grounds of my A (Not sure that will stand due to the condonation factor), but there is a part of me that wants that. But I know that no matter how much of a penalty I pay, it will not change his accountability. I hate admitting that I guess that is what this all boils down to. Me trying to get him to be accountable...

Same thing, same results, insanity

Thanks for the rely SMOMW, I am glad to have BH's replying.

What does the quoted statement above mean?

And I can appreciate your stance on loving the wife, but having no use for the WW. When I talk about who WH used to be, he gets very irritated.

Thanks again

Man in Motion,

Question for you, if you please. If you decided to divorce your wife in the future (no affair on your part involved), would you feel that is was because of your inability to forgive her? Or is it that you are just not in love with the person she is now?

I ended the affair with FOM, I initiated reconciliation with H, I don't know what else I could have done to set the stage for forgiveness.

Jean, what I meant was that I know I do not understand my FWW's pain and guilt regarding her A. I do know that her pain is more apparent than mine. We went through some very difficult periods and just the topic of her affair makes her physically ill. I can see it. Mine is not always that apparent, when she asked me, just a few months ago if I "thought of it often" my response was "define often" she said "Every day?" and my response was yes, I do. I just handle it differently now...that caused her great pain...

My point was that your H does not see your pain as a WS, he has decided to "justify"....I do not think you're in that mode....make sense?

I understand what you are saying.

You new it was wrong when you did it. Everyone knows that you can describe the pain of child birth to a man but he will never truly understand.

I doubt that you ever fully understood the pain your A caused your BS. He knew what you would be going through.

To your point about repentance, atonement, forgiveness...
Yes that is what it is about. Did you make excuses for your A? Like if you were... this probably wouldn't have happened? Now he is saying if you didn't have an A it wouldn't have happened.

He made the choice as did you. Just as your A was not his fault his A is not yours.

Thanks for the follow up guys. I don't think I made excuses, I'll have to ask H one day about that.

I have said very simply, that if I had just dug another hole in the yard and made another pond, my A would not have happened. It was a pi$$ poor coping skill and not a reflection of my marriage at all. My marriage was the same as it has always been, nothing was different when I had the A than it was 5 years prior when I wasn't having an A.

I guess that is one thing that surprises me. I know that despair that I felt looking at myself and owning up to who I had become. I really am surprised that my H is not made of the same stuff, that this doesn't eat him up inside.

Or maybe the justication is the mask that he uses to avoid his reflection. But when I think like that, I feel like I am making myself out to be a poster child FWW.

I am frying my brain.

No not a poster child at all. LOL

I only brought the excuses up becuase most WS do make those excuses. My point was he was making one now.

It probably is eating him up inside. He is just dealing with it differently.

Not to take your side but I will play a little devils advocate here.

Maybe he was not the perfect BS, again I don't know.

Maybe he does not want to be treated the way he treated you post A.

I don't know but it's a thought.

Those are not mutually exclusive situations, Jean.

I believe that I'm in the process of forgiving my FWW. Some of the things that she has done I find difficult to accept, but I believe I'm on the way to forgiving them.

However, my forgiveness of her actions does not automatically mean that our M continues on as if nothing happened. In my case, I don't think I can continue in an M where my W apparently doesn't think much of our relationship and makes little investment into making it grow into something that's best for both of us.

Maybe I want him to acknowledge that I was truly repentant. I get that maybe he could not forgive, I do wish he hadn't faked it for a year. I get that I was wrong, and I think that I was more wrong than he is (but I have a screwed up double standard expectation issue with woman )

So the conversation would go like this:
Me : I just want you to acknowledge that I was fully reformed and repentant.
Him : I know that, I want you to know that I am sorry too.
Me: But I am sorry for something I stopped doing, you can't be sorry if you are still doing it.
Him: You just have to make yourself look better than me don't you.

But if she was investing and busting her butt to make the marriage a success. And you had said you had moved past it. And everyone thought you were gloriously happy and your planning the trip to Disney with the kids...

Can having your own affair suddenly make you realize that you never forgave? Stupid question.

Man in motion, if your wife was investing and you were investing and you knew that she was sorry and would not do it again, and you said that you forgave...

Oh, I have to stop this crap, I am making myself crazy. I have this mental scorecard:
Me:
I had an affair

Him:
Lied for a year of fake reconcilation
Had an affair
Has been a real a$$ since D-day

And even if he said "Ok Jean, I am more wrong than you, are you happy now!", I still would have this gnawing in my gut.

Honestly, even if I had never become wayward, I don't think he would have stayed faithful, I am not sure that he was faithful before my A.

But again, not about him. All I can do is make amends for my wrong doings. And how do I know that that task is accomplished at this stage of the game? How do I stop feeling like I deserved this?

I'd suggest resisting any effort to "tie" the two As together.

Do you think he really "faked" it with you for a year? Perhaps he tried to accept the post-A marriage and its issues for that long, and discovered that he could not do so.

If the bank says your loan is paid in full and they are going to waive those outstanding late charges, they give you a receipt that says "paid in full"

can they come back later and foreclose on your house?

Jean

No one I mean absolutely no one deserves this!!!!!!!
You can stop feeling that way right now. (easier said then done)

No matter what you did your WH had choices. He could have chosen to divorce you for starters. (harsh but true)

How do you know it is accomplished. I have filled out the needs questionairre etc. One of our MC's said that sometimes people do things they think their spouse likes or wants. They think it is the greatest thing they ever did. But for the spouse it is not that big of a deal.

For instance I used to by my FWW flowers. I thought I was getting some serious points for this. Guess what she told me. I don't really like getting flowers. I would rather get the money you spent on the flowers and go get an outfit, or go to the nail place. Now I get her gift certificates to the nail place.

So it is hard to say what you accomplished. Maybe you were doing things you thought would make things better but it didn't seem like much to him. Again just a thought. Or maybe he just wasn't seeing the things you did for him.

YOH,
Thanks again for sticking with me. My WH told me that the only thing I did wrong during the "reconciliation" period was that I believed him.