You're right mimi....patience.
Of course I want him to want to meet my EN....and at times I know he is trying. Like when we were in Puerto Rico and we were walking...we use to hold hands all the time....when the aliens landed he refused to hold my hand "I don't want people to think I'm w/you". Then he got into the habit of walking ahead of me or behind me, never beside me. We didn't hold hands but we walked side by side. Carnival Cruise lines even vidoed us eating dinner in a restaurant as part of their on board promo for PR.

I think what I did last night was to reinforce a boundary. I do not deserve to be ignored...I will no longer tolerate it.

WH says he has no intention of moving home. He hates our town and wants us to move. I reinforced w/ him I would love a new start but I would not move anywhere w/ him until we begin to address our issues. There is enough packing I don't want to take any excess baggage.

As far as I know there has been NC....but he could hide it if he wanted to.

Today he has been more talkative. Even playful in the pool. I've pulled back a little. I will stand up for myself. I will not settle...I'd rather be alone. But for now I'll step back and try to be patient...STILL.

HTW...
I guess the rollercoaster ride continues in recovery. I've come this far I may as well see it through.

We did have a good time...I had a better time because I didn't have to work. I spent the days site seeing and hanging out at the pool. At night we went out to dinner and walked. On our flight home we got bumped up to first-class...THAT was fun! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

rella!
Just saw your signature line...I like the new name.

I did plan A so much it kind of became a way of life for me ...in a good way. It allowed me to institute and maintain changes I wanted to make. I need to stick to MY plan and not be swayed by his moods. I guess his "moods" controlled our household for so long. I don't know if he feels remorse or not he shifts blame and doesn't accept it for himself...currently he believes our problems were caused by being so involved in our town...he now hates the whole town. I guess that better then everything being all my fault <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now I am concentrating on what I want. Not what I feel obligated to...I've suppress my taker for years and years...putting EVERYONE concerns before my own...kind myrtarish at times. I am exploring what I like, what I want, forming my own opinion on things. It very liberating. No more... "What do you what? I dunno, what do you want?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I hear you about "moods" controling the house. I was always telling the kids "Your dad's ina bad mood, let's not..." He would even do it to me...It's that PA game, I'm sitting out from now on...teaching the kids better.

You have a lot to be proud of! I'm impressed with what you've done! Keep up the good work. Like you, I'm learning that I have a voice, opinion, wants, and needs and I plan to stand strong. For so long, I felt like I gave in!

I see some great signs that things will be fine.

BTW, I'm glad you like it! (the new name)

I understand what you are saying here..but I'm not noticing him IGNORING you by what you report. He is regularly coming over to the house and doing things with you.

Withdrawal is a CLINICAL DEPRESSION. He will not feel like smiling. He is a broken man who feels AWFUL inside and will need lots and lots of time to HEAL..same with you, Cha-Cha.

You have come such a long, long way...the both of you..you are almost to the finish line..now is not the time to give up the effort..

A friend of mine..actually my personal trainer..ran a marathon recently. She said it was towards the end when she wanted to give up..that was when she felt she had to put forth her greatest effort...SAME WITH RECOVERY, CHA-CHA..Your work is not done yet...and MUCH, MUCH WORK AND EFFORT is needed from you now. Your FWH cannot do this work. He may not show you. He may not admit it to you..but if this is TRUE RECOVERY..he comes to you very much BROKEN and WOUNDED.



I don't know if I agree with this as being a time for you to step back. That was PLAN B. This is a time for you to move forward..to take the lead. This is why we encourage folks to get ready for RECOVERY during PLAN B...Try to take his hand sometimes. You smile at him rather than waiting for him to smile at you. You evidence LOVING BEHAVIORS towards him. IT IS DEFINITELY OK FOR YOU TO TAKE THE LEAD, IMO...if this is what is necessary for your marriage. It seems that your H is not able to take the lead at this point. I like it that he wants to move away to another city. He seems to get it that he needs to be away from the drug source and that he will be vulnerable to her for life. Yes, it is not time to do so but I like it that he seems to GET THIS...

This is my opinion based on my experience...

In the beginning of Recovery, I had to do a lot of the WORK..in terms of being sensitive regarding the symptoms of withdrawal...and the slow lifting of the FOG....

Mimi,

This post hit home for me today. It is just what I needed to hear. Thankyou, it put everything back in perspective for me.

ChaCha,

Everytime you start to feel unsure about your recovery or your FWH's actions think about this post by MiMi.

FWH and I had a rough weekend and he kept saying negative things here and there. That's all I kept focusing on and it started to bring me down then I started acting negatively. This in turn made FWH more negative. The FWH definately needs to follow our lead. My FWH let me in on the fact that everything I do even the nice loving stuff makes him feel guilty right now. Add the withdrawal on top of it... YUCK!

The thing that keeps me going is that I have come to far to give up now. I also try to keep the positive things my FWH does in the back of my mind. So when he does something not so nice than I try to focus on the positive items instead. I also try to remember that actions speak louder than words, my FWH does many more positive actions than he speaks so they mean more to me than when he says something hurtful.

Hang in there ChaCha, it's a long road keep your end goal in sight.

mimi,
I guess what it is...I'm trying to break our bad habits and patterns by altering my response. One of the patterns that has developed is when WH is upset w/ me he simply ignores me. We can be in the same room and its like I'm not even there or maybe a piece of furniture. He will be talkative to the kids or anyone else thats around...if I try to interact w/him its like the wind just blew by. In the past I would just shut down and not attempt further interaction...never knowing what he was upset about. He would never address it conflict avoider?>>passive/agressive?

I know I must be patient. I'm trying to do the lighthouse thing. I take a step back occassionally because thats when he follows. If I take the lead he withdrawls. Its kind of a balance. It reminds me of the line from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"...The man is the head of the household but the woman is the neck...she decides which way the head should turn.

I agree that moving will be the best thing for us. There are alot of unpleasant triggers. The thing that concerns me is that he would like to move and pretend nothing ever happened. If we don't learn and grow from all this then the pain and anguish was for nothing. I have learned so much about myself through this....I want him to catch up....I know>>>>its a process and he has to deal w/his demons in his way and his time.

I will hang in there...I will be frustrated at times...I will come here to vent. I know he is making an effort...I'm not sure of the details of the A but I believe it was a LTA that developed from a friendship>>EA>>PA....I hate that he must miss her. But I have to remember...he wants his family...his actions speak louder than his words. He has never had an easy time of putting his emotions to words. So to openly talk about this is going to be VERY difficult for him.

I think it's a GREAT IDEA to try to break old patterns...BUT..my H and I are JUST NOW beginning to work intensely on this after THREE YEARS in RECOVERY..you will need to HEAL and he will need to HEAL from the INFIDELITY before the NEW RELATIONSHIP/NEW MARRIAGE is formed. It will not be the SAME RELATIONSHIP OR MARRIAGE once he comes out of the fog. He is been changed and so have you. You have to develop a NEW RELATIONSHIP now. He continues to be IN WITHDRAWAL and is unable to work on changing now. Your efforts at this will be useless now, IMO. That certainly was the case for us. Mostly, I just let my H be with his pain early on in the process. Who knows what's bothering him, Cha-Cha? It may have nothing to do with you. He's wrestling with his own inner demons. Continue to focus on yourself, as you say...doing what makes YOU happy...not depending on him to meet your needs at this point.



I'll share what my experience was with my H..not saying that your H's viewpoint is the same but you might find some of this to be helpful. For my H, AVOIDANCE was and still is a way to deal with his extreme pain over the affair. Early on, he missed her...moreso the affair high than her. But also, he felt really BAD and ASHAMED about what he had done. In terms of moving, my H wants to move... not only to allow AVOIDANCE from the shame of facing people daily and remembering the bad stuff he did... but also to deal with the ADDICTIVE ASPECTS OF THE AFFAIR/LIFE and the ADDICTION TO THE OTHER PERSON. We haven't moved YET..still in the works. Moreso than the triggers there is still this hassle that I feel about AVOIDING PEOPLE and CERTAIN ROUTES when we are together. I'm conflicted about this and am still working on how I feel about this....my issues...

The point is that this SOUNDS FAMILIAR and must be some sort of FWH PATTERN...AVOIDANCE...Maybe AVOIDANCE of the painful aspects of middle-age for men leads them into the affair to begin with...the fun-filled fantasy life where they can feel young again with no responsibilities or burdens...

I've been thinking that if AVOIDANCE works for my H in easing his pain and in maintaining NC why should I have issues with it. I can't MAKE HIM deal with it the way I want him to. I've been talking about this in my PERSONAL RECOVERY thread. I need to respect him for who he is and not try to change him to be the way I want him to be...that is showing my LOVE for him...

The main thing is for us to have open, loving relationships with our Hs. Right, Cha-cha? I do think to help you heal that your H will need to begin giving you details about the A. That was the next step for us and this was done VERY CAREFULLY and VERY SLOWLY...I had to measure how much I needed to know and what I did not want to know. He made it clear that there was some things that I did not need to know or I would not be able to love him again. I was able to trust him on this. A lot of information I was able to surmise on my own over time...

Getting back to your H, what if HE does not want to change this particular AVOIDANT pattern? What if HE does not consider this particular pattern between you two to be a problem? Then you POJA on it (NOT YET)... but it's not OK to assume your way is RIGHT and his way is WRONG. Maybe he prefers to deal with his anger/sadness/unhappiness this way. Am I making sense?



So do you think you are going to be able to MAKE him change his way of being if he has NEVER been this way? It maybe that you will need to accept that this is the way he is.

You see now how this may be A NEW MARRIAGE for you..a NEW RELATIONSHIP?

Talking about this with you helps me.

Thanks for the opportunity.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Where is my ChaCha? I know she's got to be around here somewhere's.

Alright ladies and gents: GET the Dogs, and spotlights!

How's it going?

Rin

Hiya Rin...thanks for checking on me I've been lurking around. Things are OK...FWH seems to be running hot and cold. Some days I think things are going well other times I'm sure we won't make it. I'm trying to be patient but its hard. I want answers but I haven't even been able to ask the questions yet. They say actions speak louder than words. His actions say he's working on us...maybe he is internally he just doesn't show it.

He is off on vacation all next week and plans on spending the entire time working on our house so we can sell it. He will be staying w/ us but he has not moved back in. I guess we'll see how this week goes.

OH...Patience..the equlvalent to Chinese water torture for folks like us...HAHA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> (Okay, re-read, and speak it like they do in the old Bruce LEE movies!) LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad that you are doing well. My H's being slow, not sure if you've read my thread. It's been interesting! last contact 7/11/06, he's doing it on purpose! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Yeah, that's what I said...he admitted it! Why you ask? Because he asked me not to check his cell phone bill and I do it anyway or so he says! Whatever! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, check me out if you haven't and have a great, wonderful, super fabulous weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

CC, give it time and be patient. Boy you must be sick and tired of hearing that. As long as he is making an effort towards the M then things should slowly get better.

I have read from those who went through recovery say that the changes from the FWS are imperceptable at times and can only be seen when looking back after some time has passed.

mimi has been through it so maybe she can enlighten us on the progress part.

Have a great weekend.

P.S. How long has your H been working on the house now?

I figure I've come this far...I'm focusing on my personal goals and recovery. I'm open to him..but I'm not pushing.

My grandfather had this house built for my grandmother in 1927. We've lived here for about 12 years. So there have been various ongoing projects for the last 12 years...all in different stages of completion. LOL! There's always something that needs fixing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Here's another tidbit from my EARLY RECOVERY experience.

My FWH wanted to focus his energy on working around the house, too. He said that was his way of reorienting himself to a NORMAL LIFE.

It bothered me because I wanted to be ROMANCED like the FOW.

That's when he explained that I shouldn't want a life like they had..that I should not compare myself to her...

He said that he had made a decision to have a NORMAL, MARRIED LIFE...that he did not want to live the type of life that he had been living with HER...

That's what made me finally completely understand the VALUE and SIGNIFICANCE of PLAN B....

Thanks mimi...I needed that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LOl...That sounds like my house...55+yrs old...I just got new light fixtures for the living room...sounds like he made an easy excuse for himself to be around...

Hey Cha Cha,
Just a quick hello. Sounds like you are doing well and
hanging in there with the tough and slow transition to
recovery-
Oh, to be able to say the same here ! Nothing new with
WH ,except that it does appear OW has moved out of his house (see my thread for details), however I do realize that doesn't change anything with he and I.

I'm in my second week of job hunting, and sure do find
the days are long and dragging, even though I am trying
to vary my schedule, get out of the house, etc...

If I remember right, you are in the medical profession ?
I see lots of job openings here for CNA's, but wonder if
that is a decent paying job and what it entails, if you
might know ?

Hang in there with WH as he works his way from the fog,
withdrawal, has to come to terms with himself, and then
can again be the H you knew and loved...I'm sure it will
happen. (and take care of you too !)
Slammed

OMG...I am sore! Like muscle sore! We had a good weekend working on the house. FWH has invested his $$$ into the supplies so far (which are considerable). Our house was redecorated by my Grandmother circa 1972 so we have been undecorating for the last 12 years. This weekend we hit the sun room that looked more like a cave. Took down the heavy, dusty mustard gold drapes that have been hanging there for 30 years.(What took us so long???? I guess they held out the draft) To reveal the 12 windows behind them. We need to reglaze, insolate and fix the weights in the windows. We riped down the drop ceiling and the dark wood panel that revealed 4 sunburst windows above the regular windows...and sheet rocked the room. Two bookcase flank a large faux fireplace with gray stone w/flecks of silver (not sure of the name)...it has electrical outlet in the fireplace so an insert would do nicely. We are building new radiator covers that span 2 ends of the room (about 12') I will make cushions so they will be window seats. The last thing will be to tear up the RED carpet to reveal the oak floor w/ maple inlay around perimeter.

I painted the trim and built-ins in the dining room and this morning before work prepped the cellar stairs for paint. Today FWH is home w/ the kids. We rented a 56' bucket lift so he could clean/fix/paint the dormers on the attic. DS has been especially helpful w/ the work. FWH is very good at this stuff and does beautiful work.(I will make sure I tell him so). He seemed happy this weekend. We were all very tired but happy I think.

Thank goodness for hot showers and motrin!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Slammed...yes I am in the medical field, I'm an RN. by CNA I think you are talking about certified nursing assistants...salaries vary depending on the settings (hospital, nursing home, rehab, home care). Generally CNA"s do patient related activities bathing, toileting, bedmaking, vital signs, feeding. My guess is here on the East coast hourly rates go from $10/hr to $15/hour...I'm not sure about your area. Its hard work but gratifying if you like to work w/ people.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds much like our EARLY RECOVERY.

They tell me over on the Recovery Board that this was the START of the "NEW NORMAL-NORMAL"...

I got home from work yesterday and FWH was still working in the bucket lift. He worked up there (taking breaks of course) for probably 12 hours. He came in and just looked exhausted. I told him what he had done had made a big difference that I had to look twice to find the area on the dormer he had patched. I asked how he felt...he just kind of grunted. He looked in the fridge then closed it and then...sat in his chair and closed his eyes and he was out!

While he rested I brewed fresh ice tea (his favorite) made dinner and served him where he sat. He grunted something that sounded like thanks. After he had eaten the phone rang. It was one of his friends. He perked up and told him about how tough it was reaching the places he had to get to and manuevering all the equipment. Talked about the different tools he was using..."Tim the Tool Man" kind of stuff. He laughed and carried on. After the call he got out of the chair and could barely make it up the stairs from sore/still muscles.

As I did the dinner dishes I could feel myself getting upset cause I got grunts but his friend got the complete rundown. Then I stopped myself (wanting to change old patterns). We all do that....you put on bravado for awhile to face the world. When someone asks "How are you?" We usually say "fine"...we don't say "Well my feet hurt. I'm sure I gained a pound today. I'm worried I won't be able to pay my bills and I have more gray hair showing." You go to the highlights and share the lowlights with someone you feel comfortable with. So I turned my thinking around and was glad FWH didn't feel like he had to "perform" for me.

After his shower he did feel better and we did talk about the events of the day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...without the bravado.

Mimi...I guess that some of the "new" normal-normal you were talking about.