I have my main story under Just Found Out (OM is my stepfather). My question here is I am finally doing a decent Plan A, and seeing tiny responses from my WW. She still wants me to leave, and I am not oppossed to that looking at it from my own selfish point of view (none of my needs have been getting met for a while, and lots of pain as well). But if the plan is finally working, without LBs and such, should I stay as long as I can? Harley says yes, but many on this site say leave. My selfish instinct says leave (to reduce my own pain) but my ideal of love and personal stamina says I can stay a while longer, and it would be better on the M (maybe, but I am also reading Love Must Be Tough by Dobson). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> So when do I know it is time to leave? I don't want to wait until my wife files for D; I would rather I leave on my own terms if it comes to that. If we are making some progress (even a little), then shouldn't I stay to deposit more love units, or is Plan A enough to break the affair? Exposure has happened, and PI has stopped (I think, at least mostly, well maybe...) but the EA continues and will build to more PI soon unless something changes. Both know they are being selfish and hurting others; neither cares when they are around each other. Any advice, especially true with MB principles? Thanks!

Have you exposed at church? Does your mother know that the affair continues?

Not at church yet (wife and I are new at a church of our own) but my mom knew April 5 and has told many, and knows that the contact continues, though neither of us knows for sure if there has been no further PI. One dilema is that OM stepfather doesn't really have close friends, either to talk with/confide in or to feel shame with. When I ask him what his plans are (to marry my wife or whatever) he just gives the stupid retort that I need to keep working on my M, to which I reply I can't with him and the A in the way. Yes, my WW and I have issues other than the A, but everything we have read says there can't be reconciliation or healing in the M until the A is comepletely finished.
Most of her friends encourage her to end the A and work on our M, but a few (including her mom) seem to be telling her what a great guy the OM is, and how happy they will be and that her happiness is the only thing that matters, and these are the ones she is listening to most. True, her mom likes me and wants us to work it out, but she also wants her daughter's happiness more than her doing what is right (and "right" is something that has gotten muddied and distorted, as if God's standards change just because it is convenient for us).
Some days are better than others, and the general direction seems to be that we are gaining ground, but I just don't know how to apply tough love here (leave, or stay with certain demands/boundaries?). And I don't want to leave just because it feels better for me (I'm torn on that too, because I genuinely enjoy being with my wife, though the feelings aren't mutual right now mostly). I want to do what is right, and best for our marriage, including for the kids. I was planning on leaving last weekend, but last week got a little better and I thought I could/should stay a little longer and see what happens. Perspectives for me?

I guess I need to emphasize I am in this not to save my own butt, but rather to save my marriage and make it much better than ever before.

1woundedheart, this affair is so very sick and destructive, I would suggest Plan B. And that means taking your kids and moving your household to another city. You can't leave your own children in the middle of this putrid mess. I hope that you are not allowing them around the OM, because they should not be exposed to this very unfit man. He is not safe for children.

I thought that you were planning on moving to another town? This is the strategy I would suggest. First seperate. Get awy from there and get your kids removed from this sick, sick situation. THEN go into Plan B. You will probably have to file legal seperation papers to do this because it will involve custody. But you have an obligation to protect your children from harm, 1wounded, and this it is going to take this dynamite to break up this sick, depraved affair.


I guess we should be grateful she is not a serial killer because her morally depraved mom would probably encourage her to do "what makes her happy." Sadly, your MIL doesn't give a damn about her own grandchildren and cares not if their lives are destroyed. sick, sick, sick...

You are going to have to take drastic measures, I am sorry to say. This is not going to be resolved easily, as you can see.

I don't understand what this means.

If I was in this life only to live for myself, I would have left the marriage quite a while ago. It doesn't "feel" good to me right now, and hasn't for some time, even before the affair. I am staying in it for the kids, for myself, and for my wife, and for the glory of God, for as long as it is possible. Some might look at this and say I am desparate or needy, but I feel the opposite is true. I have gained so much strength from this trial, and learned much (good and bad) about myself. I could almost thank them for the adultery for the changes in myself (still changing), and I thank God for these trials to purify me more and more. I've got a long ways to go, like us all.
Please hear me, no one involved is all good or all bad. My wife and my stepfather have many good qualities, and neither of them is a child molestor or a totally bad person. Yes, they acted selfishly, and willingly hurt people around them they should have loved, and they are even still acting on those same selfish desires, or rather seeking to have legitimate needs met in a selfish way. But I have done many selfish things too, some of which have contributed to the demise of our M. I (and my Mom) have many faults, and I have had habits and patterns in my life that allowed me to not meet my wife's needs to the full extent, sometimes not much at all. I know this, and deeply regret it, because although the affair is not "my fault" but rather hers and the OM, still I contributed to it's coming, and maybe could have prevented it had I lived differently. It is too late to change anything about the past (even a few hours ago!) but it is never too late to learn from our mistakes and the experiences of others. I want to become a better man through this, whether or not my marriage survives. Ultimately we are accountable to God alone, and only He can see inside our hearts to know our motives and our capacity to love. Comparing me to my stepfather a year ago, it would have been much easier to see his strengths and my weaknesses (though both of us have both). Now it is easy to label him "all bad" but that is not the case. He is conflicted within himself, which means he still has a conscience, which means he could change directions again and give up the adultery and deception and seeking to get his needs and wants met with my wife. But all of that is God's work in his heart, and not my work. I ahve already forgiven him, though I will never forget the damage and betrayal he has done to me and my marriage.
I cannot protect my kids from the bad people in life, otherwise they would each have to live alone in a cell in a monestary, and even that would be iffy. Obviously it would be a terrible thing for my stepdad and my wife to live together or get married; that would be so hard on the kids. But I cannot shield them from every mistake or selfish act on earth, and I myself have failed them from time to time. The end of the affair is the choice of the 2 who are caught in it. I must live my life as good as I know how to, live a life worthy of my calling as a Christian, a husband, and a father among other other things. Please do not judge any of us; judge our actions and our words if you will, but not the person. There is a big difference. It is good to call sin sin, but not good to lay condemnation on the sinner. None of us has lived a life without sin, only Jesus. Follow Him!

1woundd, you can and SHOULD protect your kids from this affair. They should not be allowed to be used as pawns in this sleazy affair and should be kept out of it. That is not "putting them in a monastery," that is doing your job as a father and keeping them out of your FIL's filthy affair. As I said, he is an UNFIT ADULT not suited for the company of children. You should forgive him WHEN he repents. He has NOT repented. Your standard cannot be higher than God's.

As a Christian, you can judge right from wrong and you know that he is not a fit person. You have a CHRISTIAN OBLIGATION to make such a judgment and protect your kids frm this influence.

Did you read my post about moving your children away from this sordid mess? I think the only way you are going to end this affair is to remove yourself and your children and go into Plan B.

p.s can you please break up your posts into paragraphs? It is very very hard to read your posts.

Alright Melody Lane. You mess with my Mom, you will hear from me.

My mother is a godly woman. How dare you call her morally depraved?!? Do you know her? Do you know what she has actually said, or only the things you read on this thread?

Shame on you for jumping to conclusions with very limited information! I perceive that you have such a high opinion of yourself, that it is easy to judge others and bludgeon them with your version of God's truth.

Also, your continual ability to determine who is approved by God and who is not, astounds me! It makes me wonder if you've never really read the Bible: there are many, many people whom God approved for Kingdom use who would not live up to your standards. In fact, His overall message is that God wants to be glorified in us, and rejects no one who comes to Him!

God is in charge, not you. He exhorts us to be FILLED with compassion, kindness, gentleness, patience and humility. I believe this applies to all of our relationships, not just our marriages.

You are entitled to continue to be disrespectful if you choose. But is this truly wise? Or could it be...foolishness?

"But the wisdom that comes from Heaven is first of all pure, peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy, and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness."

If you really want to save marriages, and help people to be righteous, then you must work toward being a peacemaker.

Please apologize for your comments about my Mom. I look forward to your reply...

Habiba, stay off your H's thread. Your mom is doing what my MIL did. She supported my H in anything that made him "happy" and that included nothing short of behavior that could exclude him from his place in Heaven. How generous of your mom to do the same for you.

Now, back off and let your H get the help he needs. If you want help, get your own thread going.

Then she should be quite familiar with God's Law #7, i.e. "Do not commit adultery".

My view: If your mum was truly a "godly woman", she would NOT be offering you support for your A just because "it makes you happy". Someone with a good sense of morality and how God would have us act would advise you to choose a course of action that is morally right instead of choosing one that is morally wrong and reprehensible but "feels good" to you.

So, just out of curiousity, what message IS your mum giving you, Habiba?

habiba

are you the wife? If you are, I hope you have been reading the sugestions and comments posted in regards to your situation not just on the ones made about your mom. I wont talk about religion or the Bible because it all has to do with what dominate us, and that is our own personal morals and value.

I see you are concerned about how people view your marriage and your overall family, therefore maybe it would be a good time to analize what is it that you are missing from your husband and be open about it so that you can mend things with husband.

I am sure you read about the pain he is going thru with your affair and how it affects your children. If you want to do whats right, then take time out to understand what being a wife and a mother is all about. Not that you may not be a good mom or a good wife, right its just being destorted. Find yourself first to be able to give your love freely to your family. I am sure the other man might be meeting some of your needs not met by your husband but it would only be fair for you to give your husband a chance by training to do just that. Your family deserves a fighting chance.

If you are not happy with yourself you will be looking for happines is this man and then the next and the next. Why not figuring out what is it that you are missing maybe you can find peace with in yourself. Your husband is only looking for support and strength to be there for you but he cannot mend your heart and neither can this other man. I hope you realize that.

I wish you the best for you and your family

okay, everyone, I am 1w's mil and I am here to take the full brunt of whatever you have to give me. But before we roll up our sleeves and begin this battle, better let me put a few facts out on the table.

1. I am not supportive of this affair. I would give anything if this hadn't happened.

2. I love my sil and want this marriage to be saved.

3. I love my daughter and want her to be happy.

4. There are many things about this situation of which you know nothing, and are not qualified to answer.

5. OM is not a child molester and your implications that he is such are truly pathetic.

6. 1w is coming to this discussion forum for emotional support and advice, not for judgemental, sanctimonious comments about people he loves.

7. I believe in marriage, I believe in working out problems, I believe in God, and I believe there are always two sides to every story. I also believe people would be more helpful if they stick to facts--not character assinations--and relate information they found helpful in dealing with their own situations.

I am now ready for you to either leave me out of this, or I am sure I am perfectly capable of answering your comments with just as good as you can give me. Any takers?????

Habiba...

"God is in charge, not you." In your case, you are in charge of your life when you are actively destroying a family for your own desire...removes God from the picture. Because your choices say that God isn't important...A's are the "other gods before me" scenario...

"He exhorts us to be FILLED with compassion, kindness, gentleness, patience and humility. I believe this applies to all of our relationships, not just our marriages." He does exhort...and we can deny him and ourselves, as you are choosing...why a commandment that says not to commit adultery? Because you are the human putting it asunder...no compassion, kindness, gentleness, patience or humility in that...you deny those to your husband and children, your MIL...because you want what you want when you want it.

And your mother supports your actions...yes, she loves the sinner--are you saying she hates the sin you are doing?

"You are entitled to continue to be disrespectful if you choose. But is this truly wise? Or could it be...foolishness?" Like having an A? Like ripping your BH's heart out, tearing up your children's lives and shredding your MIL? Would that be...foolishness?

Disrespectful?

See, you said "entitled"...and Mel knows the danger of entitlement, I'm sure...she is speaking honestly, The Truth of your mother's actions...which is harmful to others, the anti-thesis of compassion, gentleness, patience, humility, and respect...doing evil condones evil.

Why would marriagebuilders be peacemakers? Why would they say, "Keep the peace at all costs" when you are choosing to negate peace from anyone involved with you's lives? You're doing that. Your choice.

And you are decimating yourself in the process.

LA

1Wmil, you say that you want her to "be happy." What if being a serial killer or a rapist made her "happy?"

Would you be in support of that? Is there anything you won't support in order to be liked?

Why would you be in support of anything that helped DESTROY your daughter, her husband, and her children? You say that you don't support this affair, but you contradict yourself when you say you just want her to "be happy." AT WHAT COST, 1WIlMIL?

That is NOT LOVE, 1Wmil.

True love means you want the BEST for your daughter, not the worst. True love means you take a stand against evil when she is HARMING HERSELF and your GRANDCHILDREN.

Any mature person understands that true happiness comes from being GOOD, not from being bad. Your daughter will never be happy destroying her family, her MIL's family, her children all for her own selfish purposes. Why have you not taught her this?

Instead, what you want is to be LIKED. At all costs while your daughter destroys herself and her family. Any parent who sits by while that happens and chatters that they just want their child to "be happy" is guilty of GROSS DERELICTION OF DUTY and is NOT loving.

OM is the absolute moral equivalent of a child molester and should not be around children. This is an unfit, amoral adult who clearly does not have any moral boundaries. These children should never be exposed to your daughter's sleazy affair. There are many divorce judges who mandate complete protection from an affair partner.,

1Wmil, you say that you don't like "judgments" and I believe that is a huge part of your problem here. You DO NOT discern right from wrong. DECENT PEOPLE are SUPPOSED to judge right from wrong and guide their children on the right path. You have not done that as a parent. Our prisons are full of people who cannot judge right from wrong, and that is exactly where they belong.

If you cannot "JUDGE" that your daughter's affair is WRONG, under any circumstances, then you clearly have some serious issues.

I would implore you to do what is BEST for your daughter, her husband and your grandchildren and try to guide your daughter out of this sick, putrid morass. Instead of plying her with intellectually vacuous bumper stickers that you just "want her to be happy" so you will be liked why not be a PARENT?

1Wheart

Hi,

I am WOL (waitingonlove). We have a lot in common I have some info that may be able to help you with some stuff as a BS. I will read more and post later.

WOL

Habiba, since you are spouting Bible verses, I wonder if you missed these:


"You shall not commit adultery. Exodus 20:14

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.1 John 2:4

Loving Anyway,

Since your bio indicates that both spouses in your marriage had A's, I congratulate you on your Recovery. An A is never the answer, only an escape route, an addiction, and a way of dealing with pain inside the M.

You must be familiar with selfishness in your own past, and it would be helpful if you could verbalize how you were able to overcome the problems in your own relationship. It's very difficult to get through the day to day trauma of this situation and any constructive help is positive.

An A is only the sympton of problems in the M, as I'm sure most people would agree. My daughter is a beautiful, loving, caring, giving young woman who is truly struggling to get through this difficult situation. She is guilt ridden, but addicted to the emotional support she is receiving from the A. Neither of them set out to do this to their spouse. I'm not stupid enough to say it just happened. A's don't "just happen". The decision is more like, "you know, someone makes me feel valued, something I haven't gotten an abundance of at home lately. This feels pretty good." Then it goes downhill from there.

My sil is struggling desparately to save this marriage. I have the utmost love and respect for him, and I value him greatly. I don't know how this will all work out, but I am proud of both my daughter and my sil for making the effort to save this M. There is still love there, and neither of them ran straight to Divorce Court, which many of my own generation would have done. Instead, they chose the hardest path, the one to understanding and peace. They both love their children and are committed to being good parents. You are right in saying this A is selfish; but my daughter has been selfless for over eleven years. This certainly doesn't justify the A, but it does perhaps make it more understandable.

Hey habiba,
My goodness that sure was ONE Looooooong Weekend you took off to go to the Monastery to commune with the Lord. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Care to tell me how I can get on that Same Program? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

If not for your H's continued postings,
I'd have thought you went and joined up permanently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Since you apparently have Done some reading up (to be quoting scripture and all) .....I'm very curious to find out what message you've received from God concerning your behavior and your future??