hurtingwife,<P>just curious how you're doing? Haven't seen any of your posts lately...<P>--andy

Hi Andy<P> I haven't responded in the last few days because I have not had a chance to get on-line. I read your last post from the other thread and, no, I'm not suggesting you leave your wife-not as long as she believes she can live with what you are telling her. I told my h. I didn't want him to stay with me simply out of pity (he told me eight months ago that the reason he didn't leave me was that he did not want to leave me in utter despair-very kind of him wouldn't you say?). Well, eight months ago, I could accept that. Now, I can't. I only want him to stay with me if he thinks he can love me again...if he wants to love me. He says he doesn't remember saying that to me about the utter despair. Seems he can't remember a lot of many hurtful things he's said. He says he doesn't know how he feels... he's trying to figure that out but he feels he does want to love me and, apparently, thinks its possible. So I accept that. If he told me he never loved me with that crushing all consuming love...I'm not sure how I'd feel. First, I don't think I would believe him. I know he loved me like that, and so did everybody else. I used to spend three or four nights at his house (he was 19 and I was 17) and then go home and call him and we would talk for hours. My grandmother used to get so mad. For heavens sake. You just spent four days with him. Why do you have to come home immediately call him. Well, because I couldn't stop thinking about him and couldn't stand to be away from him. A year after we were married, I still cried when he left for work becaue I knew how much I was going to miss him. We never broke up and were married nine months after our first date. In our 21 years of marriage we've only spent a few night away from each other, and each time, we called each other several times a day. (One of these times was just two years ago when my h. went to a concert with him brother. He called me two or three times during the day. His brother, on the other hand, didn't call his live-in girlfriend once). What am I to make of that? Habbit?<P>Did/does your wife have that crushing all consuming love for you? She must to have forgiven you for an affair. Do you think if she had the affair, and your son wasn't born, you would have stayed with her? Would you have pursued her like my h. did me? (I guess I'm trying to gather evidence that my h. did love me like that). Don't you think a man would have to love his wife like that to pursue and forgive her?<P>I still don't understand how someone marries without considering if they love and want to spend the rest of their life with the other person. I felt like I couldn't go on without my h.....like.. like I wouldn't be complete without him. Those memories of how I felt and what we had are what are keeping me afloat now. I just don't think love like that ever dies completely....not when you have a history together. I think that is what is keeping us together now-because we truly loved each other with that 'soulmate' love.<P>I have another question about your ow#2. What makes you believe you loved her? Did you spend quality time with her away from work? Quality time with her at work? I guess that is eight hours a day but sitll... My h. did not spend that much time with his ow. A few hours in a class...probably exchanging glances in the halls...winks. But I went to the same school remember.<P>By the way, he told me a few nights ago that though, in the past, he felt he somehow influenced her death, he now thinks he had nothing to do with it. That everything has turned out as it was supposed to and he's where he supposed to be...is he rationalizing again? Well, this is a pretty long post. Thanks for taking the time to listen and to trying to offer any insight you might have from a man's perspective. Also, thanks for asking. I hope things getter better and better between you and your wife.

Andy,<P>I just read your very long thread about how long. As I mentioned in my first post, I do believe we had that all consuming, can't get enough of you love. He endured a betrayal, pursued me (I'd hate to think that was pain and not love).<P>I wanted to throw some other things by you that came to my mind while reading your other thread...see what you think he might be thinking. After he told me all this eight months ago, and I would want to leave (not permnately-just to get away from him during an argument or something) he would block the door, hide my keys-things like that. Also, I remember back in December before confession, he had some friends over and one of them kept coming into the room where I was and talking to me. I could see my h. was irriated by it and he kept coming in too to check on me too. He even told me he was irriated by the om after his friends left. When we were dating, he was jeolous if I paid more attention to my baby brother than to him. I guess I'm trying to make sure that he did have that all consuming love for me at the beginning as there seems to be a discrepency as to whether you can 'create' or get back those feelings if you never had them to begin with. I also remember him seemingly being jealous a few years back when I talked on the phone to my aunts h. (my uncle by marriage). H. thought uncle had a thing for me. And once, probably about five years back, when were having lunch, he gave some man a dirty look that he said was looking at my legs and he was irritated that a man would do that with him there with me.<P>I also notice, that even now, if he thinks I'm jealous (which is hard not to be in my case) he seems to enjoy it...gets a big grin on his face and even gives me a kiss. Any insight to any of this?<P>I don't know what to tell you about your feelings for your wife. I'm still interested in whether she had that kind of love for you. In one of your post on the other thread, you seemed to be indicating that she was doubting her love for you. I have to be honest and say there are times when I do not feel in love with my h. But then there are times when the love is pouring so much into my heart that it hurts. The truth is, I know I still love him. All I have to do is look back and I know he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. I know if I ever started looking for anyone else, I would only be looking for him. You must have felt some kind of love for your wife to marry her, though. Were you jealous at all back then? Also, does your W. ever post? I'd be interested in hearing from her.<p>[This message has been edited by hurtingwife (edited October 02, 1999).]

Hi hurtingwife,<P>Well, there's an awful lot of stuff it your two posts, and I don't have a lot of time to respond right now. But I'll give it a try...<P>First, from what you say, it sure sounds to me like your husband had that all-consuming love (hey, let's call it ACL from now on... ). All the signs are there. All the signs that I didn't have. His being jealous, his pursuing you after your affair, his calling you all the time... I've never been jealous of anyone flirting or checking out my wife. I don't know if I would've tried to get my wife back if she had an affair. We called each other alot, but I think I did that more out of the feeling of responsibility than because I loved her a whole bunch. Just for the record, I'm very envious of your feelings for your husband. Even after all you've been through, to still feel that ACL (albeit a more mature one) is great. It's what I want. <P>I really don't know if my wife had ACL for me. Maybe. But I don't know. She's not a real passionate person to begin with (maybe something I unconciously wished for). We've never talked about that. We did talk about where we were currently in our feelings, and yes she did say that she has been wondering lately whether she truly loves me. Just between you and me, I think she does. But I have no idea if it's that ACL thing...<P>My wife doesn't post here. In fact lately, she hasn't read here either, on advice from her councellor. My wife got very emotional over a few of my posts. I never told her not to read my posts, but sometimes I lay my feelings all out here, and that hurts her. She knows where I stand on everything. I'm not hiding anything from her, but she would read something I said here and then re-interpret it in her mind to mean something I never meant. So therefore, she no longer reads my posts. At least for the time being.<P>RE: OW#2 -- Her and I were friends for about a year before I felt that I loved her. We had tons of stuff in common. Not to mention she has a fascinating personality. She's very smart (160+ IQ) and funny. Blah, I don't want to discuss her good qualities much, but you need to know for background, I guess. We did spend time together alot. We went to lunch often. We went to beer together after work once. We carpooled to company meetings... There was plenty of opportunity to get to know her. But anyway, that's all in the past, and I'd rather not think about that now. It's too depressing.<P>About your husband, I mentioned this before, but it bears repeating. He is exhibiting alot of the typical behaviors of betrayers. All that stuff about not remembering saying the hurtful things to you. That's fairly typical so I hear on this board. I think you should have alot of optimism about the way your husband feels now. I think you guys will have a good recovery. I'm hopeful for you.<P>That's really all the time I have for now...<BR>--andy