I have posted on here once before, but was told to stick to reading info and not worry about the message boards. I need advice, so I am asking.

WH had affair with OW who lives in another state. They met on a business trip, had a one night stand and then started having an EA. I found out by a text message I found on his phone. WH told me a few days prior to me finding text message that he was emotionally dead, that I had not been meeting his needs and he was feeling depressed.

I was blown away. Did everything I could think of to make changes. I have 3 children. 7yrs to 2 yrs. We both work, his work requires travel. I just thought we were in a low spot.

We have fought with NC for a couple of months now. We are in MC and he has just started IC and is on anti-dep.

He has had NC for 2 weeks now. The problem is that his sulking has changed to anger. He went from being down and upset all the time to being downright mean.

I have been doing plan A pretty successfully, until this weekend. WH decided that he needed to get away on Friday night, so he went out to local bar by himself and came home drunk at 3am. He did not understand why I was upset and felt like I should just let it go. Sunday comes and he needs to get away once again. Says I am putting too much pressure on him.

We sit down to talk last night and he tells me that he has a bunch of resentment built up and I just keep adding to it by having these talks with him.

I dont sit him down to have these talks, he just usually pushes me too far and when I get upset, I want to try and resolve the conflict. He says that I am just telling him over and over again what he is doing wrong. I try very hard to express things in I statements, but he still perceives them as you statements.

He tells me that he has not had control over any part of his life and that now he is taking control and looking out for himself. He did not have the best childhood and I know that plays a part in all of this, but I feel like I am paying for every wrong that was ever done to him. He told me that he felt that he had no control over when we were married or the timing of our children. That he felt that he has been walked on and mistreated his whole life.

I know that a lot of this is just the babble of the fog. But how do I go about dealing with WH when he crosses the line and is outright disrespectful to me and my feelings?

He says he is done and has no more to give.

Please help me see that there is still something to give and that this is really not the end.

out-

This time, stay with the boards for a while! What a tough situation.

Be assured that almost all WS act like yours does.

Have you exposed his A to anyone? If you haven't, start telling everyone he could run too for sympathy to jerk any safety net he has out from under him. Don't be shy about doing it if you haven't- if you are hesitant, you might as well kiss it goodbye.

You don't have to let him run over you, tell him he can vent all he likes as long as it isn't screaming or putting you down. You have to keep your cool towards him and take the high road.

Bad childhood, blah, blah, plenty of folks recover from those. He's talking like a depressed person (as you mentioned) and not like a real man. Real men don't go out drinking until 3 AM. Bottom line is...he misses the OW and the little fantasy he has about life with her. Expose him now, or be prepared for the worst to happen.

Out:

IT IS important for you to read the information about the MB System and then try to APPLY it to your situation. However, after reading and while applying the programs, come back and talk to us so that we can give you feedback.

Overall, you are breaking some important PLAN A rules. It is important for you to stick as closely to the PLAN as possible.


What changes did you make? What particular changes did you think were necessary?

I doubt that there has REALLY BEEN NO CONTACT given his current reactions. Can you be sure that he is really at the local bar when he has gone out? She may have met him somewhere...sorry to say. Sounds like she might have been around this weekend to me....



Yes, his talk is just FOGBABBLE or whatever..meaningless now. What do you do? Don't listen and continue with your PLAN A.



Bull...part of the WS script. He wants you to be agreeable to this in order to make it easier for him. You say: "Sorry you feel that way, I want to continue to work on our marriage"..Continue to say this, regardless of what he says.



Since you say that you have been reading here, you should know that this definitely not the end. Your WH is using the STANDARD SCRIPT. My FWH went through the same actions, said the same things as yours. It will be a long hard road. This will be difficult for you, the hardest thing that you have ever done. However, don't you think that it is worth it to work on your marriage?

We can help you here.

Let us know about your PLAN A so far and the nature of the problems in your marriage prior to the affair.

Hugs to you....




What do you mean by this? You seem to have your doubts.

this is my first time posting to someone elses post... Just wanted to let you know that I am going through the EXACT same thing and my WS has said the exact same things..
So you are not alone and everything he says my W has said.. So there is hope for you..

mflake - thanks for the support. I have expossed the A to almost everyone we know. I have support of his family as well as mine. Problem is that he is not relying on anyone for support or sympathy. MIL and FIL are at a loss of what to do.

mimi-I made changes according to the needs he said I was not meeting. He said that he was upset that I did not initiate sex very often. When ever we discussed this before the affair, I had needs that were going unmet also. We were at a standstill waiting for the other to start meeting our needs before we started their needs. We have had a long couple of years especially with raising twins(2yo). I admit and have apologized for not meeting these needs and have made these changes aslong with others for myself and my family. I was stuck in a routine and was just happy to make it through the day. I see how that is wrong and have made changes in order to live each day to the fullest. I feel this has been positive in every part of my life except for my marriage.

As far as OW being here this past weekend, she lives 3000 miles away and is married. I dont rule this out as a possiblity though.

My plan A has been to provide him with a safe environment and to be loving and attentive. It has been hard, becuase he seems to shy away from any touch or affection I show towards him. I have been trying to make extra effort for things at home to be calm and comforting. Such as taking the load of daily duties over and making sure diner and kids are taken care of. I try to make time for him each night and show special attention. I try to avoid all relationship talk, until I feel like he is trying to upset me by doing things he knows will upset me. I try to keep things happy and upbeat, but I feel taken advantage of.

I think I can handle the fact that my needs are not being met right now, but what I cant handle is the outright disrespect of my feelings and the intentional hurting of my feelings. This is when I lose my cool.

I have my doubts about me doing a good job in plan A because of how little respect my WH shows me and how easily I lose control. I know I am not suppose to do that.

Thanks Duglas, as soon as I got up this morning I knew I needed to come here for advice. It is good to know that this is standard script for WS. Sorry that you are having to feel this pain also.

Out, have you exposed to your husband's workplace? He met the OW on "company time" on a business trip and almost certainly has been using company resources to email her, and company time to call her on his cell phone.

Also, don't overlook the value of exposing to your pastor or priest. They can have enormous influence on your husband.

Finally, what do you know of this OW? If she's married, her husband needs to know about the adultery also. Even if she's not, her boss needs to know she met your husband in the conduct of their business operation (if I'm interpreting your post correctly). Such a relationship may well be against both corporations' ethical standards.

You've done well Out, but there may still be things you can do. Get more specific with who you've exposed to and what your plan is from this point forward and we may be able to help you, okay? Hang in there.

Longhorn, I have not exposed to husband's workplace. I have spoken to one of our minister's but he only knows we are having problems. OW does not work with husband, she was just in same town as WH when he was there on business. I have exposed to MIL, FIL, my mother and father and sisters. I have exposed to our mutual friends and some neighbors.

I am not sure of my plan from here on out. I feel like I should still be in plan A, but WH does not seem to want to go forward. We were so upset last night and this morning that I dont know how to act anymore. I am at the point of agreeing that we are done. I do want to save my marriage, but I dont want to be married to the person who is claiming to be my husband right now.

Please help

Hey out- you probably won't want to be married to him off and on for a while no matter how well it goes. Have you asked him what he wants to do, specifically? What are his plans now that he's 'doing things for himself' finally?

If he won't do things to help repair the marriage, he needs to get out.

What about you? What can you do to improve yourself in the meantime?

Remember, he's missing his girlfriend. I remember what is was like when my FWW was missing her 'soulmate.' Took her 6 weeks to get over it and finally apologize to me. Now she can't imagine ever having done it. Maybe you can have similar results! Hang on.

There was much talk ont he boards a year or so ago about the "entitlement" WS's feel.

I recently read some websites about this entitlement, and it seems to describe your H...

Read this and see if it doesn't make some sense...

http://members.aol.com/AngriesOut/teach9.htm


Especially people who have had a rough childhood get caught in this victim role where they feel they are owed, that they deserve happiness in any way they can get it...if M is tough, they look outside, if life is tough, they deserve to get drunk, etc... And if you don't like it, you are part of their problem, it is all YOUR fault they are not happy.

Granted, this website would pretty much describe any WS on here...they all become narcissistic in the throws of an A, but some feel more entitled than others...

That's a natural reaction, Out. Your husband has been taken over by an alien who came down from the mother ship some time ago. You cannot expect much of anything from him until his alien fog begins to lift. Even simple things like ordinary logic and courtesy are impossible for him right now.

I suggest you strongly consider exposing to WH's boss or Human Resources Director. Even if OW was not representing a company that does work with WH's company, he was in that city on a business trip--he was representing the company on that trip in everything he did. I suspect they might take that very seriously.

Get back to your minister and give him "chapter and verse" as Grandma used to say. Bring him in on your side and solicit his active intervention with your husband.

I gather you don't know much about OW, but try to find out who she is, whether she's married or not, etc. Oh, btw, the alien I talked about above? The rule of thumb is that if an alien's mouth is moving, it's lying. Treat everything WH says about her as extremely doubtful unless corroborated by at least two objective sources. If he says she’s single, bet on her being married. If you can’t find out anything about her, you might want to hire a private investigator to see if any information can be developed.

Lady, you can recover your marriage. Others here on MB have done it with as little to go on as you have. Most of what your husband says about everything being over, he doesn’t love you, hasn’t loved you since forever, you’re controlling, he needs to find himself, work for himself, do his own thing…all of that is from a playbook apparently issued to every wayward spouse right at the start. If you haven’t heard any of the above hurtful statements, you will. They all get around to it sooner or later.

Let it roll off you like water off a duck’s back. Seriously, it means nothing. It’s not your husband. It’s a confused, foggy alien and it deserves to be pitied because it doesn’t know which end is up right now.

I think you can go into Plan A, but read up on Plan A and make sure you understand it completely. Plan A is not designed to make you into a doormat. Rather, it exists for you to make yourself into a better person in a myriad of ways and, in that way, attract your husband back to you and your marriage. Have you read Pepperband’s thread on the “Carrot and Stick of Plan A?” You should. It can be found here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...=&PHPSESSID

I also want to make sure you’re reading about Plan A and Plan B directly from the source. Do you have Dr. Willard Harley’s book Surviving An Affair? If you do, study it carefully; don’t just skim through it. If you don’t have it, you need to order it as soon as you can. It will help you understand SO much about what you’re going through. It’s available from the MB bookstore.

If you can afford it, you sound like you would benefit immensely from a personal counseling session with Steve Harley. He can help you develop a personalized strategy for getting your marriage back in order. Links leading you to information for a telephone counseling are here on this website.

I don’t want this to turn into something as long as War And Peace, so I’ll close for now. Hang tough, Out. You’re not alone in this, okay?

Longhorn and shmi - Thank you so much for the links and I will read both. I am going to get book today.

I appreciate the help and support that you are offering. I have heard most of the alien garbage that you have listed above. I go in to plan A with the intent of improving myself and trying to make myself attractive for my WH, but I always make the mistake of thinking about how he is treating me in return. I need to get past this. I know it is silly of me to expect WS to try to meet my needs, but I get upset, becuase he is doing the very things to me now that he is blaming me for in the past.

It's tough not getting your needs met for months, we all know. Keep at it!

Nice link - gives a lot of food for thought.

Tks!

Thank you all to those for your advice yesterday.

I wanted to update what has happened since yesterday. I spoke with FIL and he spoke to WH last night. Told him to get it togeter and to *** or get off the pot! Told him that he knew he had it rough growing up. WH agreed and FIL told him that he was going to pass that on times 3 (our 3 children). FIL told him to start being nice to me, to start helping out and start being a man and living up to his responsibilites.

WH came back from talk and after kids went to bed asked if we could sit down and talk.

WH asked if I thought we should seperate. I have been against this in the past when this topic came up. This time however, I told him that I thought that this might be a good idea. I think that this shocked him. I told him that I was kind of torn, becuase we would now be involving the children in our problems, becuase we would have to explain to DS(8yo)why WH is moving out. I am also torn becuase he would have the best of both worlds, his freedom and his family. He said he saw these as very valid points.

The real shocker for him came when he said we would have to sit down and put in writting our roles during the seperations. His example of this was that he would come over every night to help with the children. I told him that I dont think that he should come over every night to help with the children. He said he wanted to seperate for a reality check, and I think in order to have a reality check, we should make it real. He would see the children according to the schedule we would set up. He did not like that very much.

He then back tracked and said that we should work on the marriage and think about this a little bit before we jump into seperation.

I exposed the A to my minster this morning. I have spoken with him in the past about having problems in our marriage. He has been trying to contact WH to set up a lunch, something they have done in the past. WH has not been returning calls. Minister went downtown to see if WH wanted to meet for lunch, but WH was at another location. They agreed to meet later in the week.

I am hopeful about husbands desire to work on marriage and his lifted spirits, but I am also very reluctant, becuase I have heard this all before.

My plan is to not talk relationship, to work on bettering myself, to provide a loving and welcoming environment. To let him be upset and down if that is what he wants to be and not let it effect the way I feel. If he upsets me, I will try to let it go, if I cannot, I will control my emotions and calmly tell him that his actions are not acceptable. I need to keep focus on my life and emotions and those of my children and let him work his way through the fog.

Am I on the right track?

STANDARD WS SCRIPT!!! My FWH said the same thing.

It is important for you NOT to be agreeable to a separation at this point. You will need to be living in the same household in order to do an effective PLAN A. Also, in doing this, you are enabling his A. He is wanting to separate in order to spend more time with her.

Tell him that you have changed your mind...that you want to "work on your marriage" and to show him how you have changed...that you cannot do this while separated.

I got this exact same advice from Steve Harley when my H was having thes exact same "LET'S SEPARATE" conversations with me.

Ask your WH if he would be agreeable to MB counseling with Steve Harley? That would be a great idea for you two.

I repeat: Do not agree to the separation! If he leaves, let him leave on his own, WITHOUT your APPROVAL. Let him know when he leaves, that you know full well why he is leaving..to be more available to spend time with her..not because of your marital problems....

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mimi - I agree about not being able to do plan A if he we are seperated.

The reason I feel that him leaving and getting his dose of reality would be a good thing is that anytime I have gotten tough and made him leave, it has jolted him back into the real world, temporarily. The problem is that he keeps struggling through recovery.

My FIL also has noticed the same thing about him reacting when I stand up to him and has suggested that I need to get tough and let him know that I am willing to move on with or without him.

I do not want him to leave and I plan on spending the next couple of weeks doing everything I can to keep it upbeat and positive and trying to not give him an excuse to move out.

Out:

I'm a real strong advocate for following the MB System as closely as possible.

It's first PLAN A, PLAN B and then RECOVERY....



IMO, he is wanting to leave at this point to be with the OW or to be able to be free to spend more time with her. Although she lives far away, there are planes and they can meet halfway. Don't put anything past the infidels.

You do not want to hand your husband to her on a silver platter by being agreeable to a separation.

I don't think he is one bit in Recovery.

He wants to get started hot and heavy with her.



I agree with the TOUGHNESS but it should be TOUGHNESS about wanting to work on your marriage..

Stand up to him and let him know that you will not be AGREEABLE to him SEPARATING from you to be with HER...

Even if he leaves in two weeks, Out, I suggest that you let him know that it is NOT with your BLESSING..that he is leaving on his own and that you do not want him to go...

Let him figure out any logistics on his own...

Out, suddenly appearing to consider a separation is a good "180" technique, perhaps, but be very careful about playing that card. It had the intended effect. You did a masterful job of showing him what a real separation would be like and he didn't like that one bit, did he? Excellent.

But lady, you caught him at exactly the right moment after hearing FIL give it to him from the shoulder. You know him better than any of us and your technique was fine, but I hope you understand it could have also resulted in all the blood leaving his face while he stood up and walked out. Under other circumstances, the end result could have been much harder to deal with. Anyway, I would think long and hard before implying, or saying again, that you might approve of a separation in any way. Enough said.

Now, your husband's words are encouraging, but you are very correct to be skeptical. He doesn’t have a real good track record right now. It’s great your FIL called and gave him what us old retired military folks understand was a strong, “directive” counseling. Your FIL sounds like a man of character. It’s good that your husband sat and took it from your FIL also. He’s not stupid and he’s beginning to realize, albeit slowly, that what he’s been doing IS stupid.

It’ll be a slow process though, Out. There will be days where he has an epiphany, and you’ll be exasperated to watch him take a step backward that very afternoon. Lady, don’t expect this to be a short thing, and don’t expect linear progress. He’ll be all over the map for a while but, bit by bit…baby step by baby step…things can improve. You have to be in this for the long haul, but you sound like you are. Great. You have my admiration.

Out, make him stay with the MC and IC this time. Make it one of your boundaries, something you will not accept a marriage without. You said something about strife having been a component of your marriage before. It's time that ended. The two of you need to get to the root causes for that and resolve it once and for all. Your children deserve it, and the marriage deserves it.

Exposure to your minister was excellent and it sounds like he is a real pastor to his flock. Excellent.

Do I detect a reluctance to expose to your husband’s workplace? That is another direction from which intense pressure can be applied to end the affair. Perhaps you want to wait a time and see how your husband reacts to the counseling from your FIL and your minister? Out, there are two theories about exposure. One is nuclear, and it’s the path I favor. Exposing to everyone at once gets the job done once and for all…and it gives the wayward spouse no place to find a refuge. Everyone knows about the adultery and there’s no place to hide where the WS can pretend the fantasy is alive.

On the other hand, some recommend incremental exposure. Expose to some, check the results, then expose again where necessary. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t. Often, the same number of people are contacted in the latter method as in the former.

Out, if you determine the second method is appropriate for your circumstances, fine. I would only ask that you be vigilant and understand the dangers of allowing a sanctuary to WH. If you detect such happening, I hope you react by switching to the other.

Because of recent events on the board, I want to hit on one thing you must set a boundary for and never back away from. NC is incredibly important. Please take a look at Melodylane’s thread “Read My Lips” on the board right now for more information. Frankly, NC is equally important as ending the affair.

Okay. I think you’re doing pretty darn good, Out. The affair is dying, you’re doing things for yourself as you should in Plan A, and your spirits are good. Outstanding. Let's hope exposure works and you never have to go into an extended Plan A. That makes Plan B something you'll never have to address and you can skip to the advanced marital recovery recommendations in the last half of Surviving An Affair.

Stay with it, Out. There will be bad days and there will be good ones but it should all be leading toward the goal you have planned for. Hang in there, Lady.

Wow Thanks mimi and longhorn. I understand now that I must not give him permission to seperate. That it must be his decision to leave.

How do I handle this when this topic comes up again, since we have already discussed it as a possibility?

I do have reluctance to exposing workplace to affair. WH does a lot of travelling and rarely works from office. So, I do not know anyone there to expose to.

I know that his work is struggling right now and I am afraid that if I put any more negativity on him that he will lose his job and that is just more crap for me to deal with.

Not sure what to do on workplace exposure.