Don't bring a separation up again yourself. Assume in everything you say and do that the final word was his when he said you two should work on the marriage and "think about this a little bit." Remind him he said that if he brings it up again. Your mantra is that you do marriage and anything other than two full-time parents means the children suffer.

I understand your instincts are telling you not to expose to your husband's workplace right now. As I said, I'm adamant most times a betrayed spouse should expose there if they can place pressure on the affair. This time though, and I'm not sure why I think this, I'm not entirely sure it would be appropriate at this time. Please, lady, watch closely. If his job enables the adultery in any way, think hard about contacting the HR director.

Can your husband set things up so he never goes to the city where the OW lives? That’s important.

No contact means NO CONTACT. Even a brief meeting somewhere will make all the old feelings come rushing back and the affair will be reignited. You, and he, will be right back to square one and it’ll all have to be done over…if you have the stamina to consider starting over. Take a look at KiwiJ’s thread on the board today if you want a gut-wrenching story about what happens when NC is broken by a former wayward spouse.

Thanks Longhorn

I agree with not bringing up the seperation issue again. I Plan on making sure he has no reason to bring up seperation issue again. If he wants to seperate, it will be because he is making that choice to leave.

It is going to take a lot from me. I am going to have to let things go and make myself not ask questions about how he is feeling or having relationship talk. I cant give him any excuse for seperating. I know he is an alien and I can not make him understand.

WH does not travel to OW state, it was a chance meeting in another state. She was traveling to brother's house and passing through city where WH was working on business.

Ok I did it. WH asked me last night if I had put any thought into what I would tell DS if we seperated.

I told him that I thought we should avoid it at all cost. He asked if I meant that we should not tell DS or lie to him and I told him no, that we should avoid seperating at all cost.

He got quiet and I know he thought I was going to try to convince him and get into a heated discussion. Instead, I just changed the subject.

I think he is intentionally trying to get me to get into another argument or for me to get mad so that he will have an excuse to seperate.

Once again it will be all my fault.

I am not going to let him bait me into that situation.

The only problem is that WS and MIL are having a talk tonight. She is in my corner and is trying to help.

He told me not to wait up and I said that I was sure that the talk would not last that long. He said he might stop and have a couple of beers to clear his mind. He did this last weekend and ended up coming in at 3am.

I told him that this would be unacceptable and he jokinly said ok 1am. I once again just said no and started to leave.

I know that he is saying it in a joking manner so that if I get mad, he can say I was just joking and question me as to why I always get mad at everything he does.

When I dont get mad at him "joking" he can then say that he told me this morning that he was going to go out and I will say that I thought he was only joking.

It is a no win situation.

So, I need some help on how to handle this situation tonight if he comes in drunk at 2am. How do I not get suckered in to being the blame for our seperation.

GREAT!!!



That's it!! Standard WS tactic!! See how helpful it is for you to be on top of this..to know his scheme. You have the power! You are two steps ahead of him now.



He's trying to instigate you. Plus, there may be some phone-calling to the OW...



You are going to be asleep tonight...or you are going to be laying in bed as if asleep. If you are like I was, I was unable to sleep until my FWH came home.

Wake up in the morning..cheery and not mention a thing about the time that he comes home....

The goal is to maintain your POWER, CONTROL and SELF-RESPECT...No begging him to come home on time. He knows what he is doing is wrong and is liable to bother you. You have already made that clear to him.

Keep on with YOUR PLAN A....

Don't allow him to take the lead and steer you off course...

Thanks Mimi - I do feel like I know his plan and that makes it easy to let things that would normally upset me go.

But part of me wonders if he thinks that I dont mind because I am not getting upset and it is ok for him to continue to do.

I was thinking about being asleep, but last time he woke me up wanting SF. What do I do then. Believe me right now, I take it when I can get it, but do I let him come in, think everything is ok and give him what he wants. I just think it will be hard to say no and then act like nothing is wrong. How do I handle that?

He absolutely knows that it bothers you for him to stay out late at a bar.

You will let him know again, BTW, how much it bothers you..just not tonight...

You will let him know when you choose to share this with him..not at his instigation...

You will say this in a calm yet firm tone of voice..when you are showered and pretty and batting your eyelashes.

If you are sound asleep, you can't enjoy SF...Right?

If he is able to awaken you, how about: "Let's get together when I am not so sleepy..what time is it?..it's late isn't it?

Not rejecting him...but not being used..or disrespected..after he has been turned on by conversation with the OW....

I just got an email saying that he was just joking this morning. That he might stop at starbucks and then be home after his talk with his mother.

Now, lets say that he does come home after talk with his mother and he wants to discuss our relationship. Knowing that he is trying to bait me into an argument so that he can have an excuse for seperation, how do I handle the discussion?

Up to this point, I have been avoiding any relationship talk. IF something comes up, I try to camly respond and then change subject.

We have not sat down and had a talk this week at all and things have been going smoothly. I dont want to get into a war and give him an excuse to leave.

this is a perfect example of what they call 'stinkin' thinkin' in AA...

[color:"red"] He tells me that he has not had control over any part of his life and that now he is taking control and looking out for himself. He did not have the best childhood and I know that plays a part in all of this, but I feel like I am paying for every wrong that was ever done to him. He told me that he felt that he had no control over when we were married or the timing of our children. That he felt that he has been walked on and mistreated his whole life.
[/color]

nope

Your H cannot slide by as an adult and blame today's choices on childhood stuff

here's how to respond...

acknowledge his FEELINGS

and reject it as 'logic' ... which it ain't

Try:

"It must be exhausting & frightening to have so many dark feelings. What can I do right now to help?"

If he cannot name anything tangible you can do to help, or if he responds rudely...

"OK. I see. Maybe later then. I'll be around.

then get out of his range

he's in full cave mode ... you know, when a troubled man goes into his cave to solve what's in his heart ... they detest trying to solve their issues out in public...

Send him back into his cave after you offer to help

the rest is really up to him

Pep

Pep, thanks for your post. that helps to think it is stinkin thinkin.

I think that will be a perfect way to handle his discussion tonight. If he does not bring it up, I will not ask. If he does, I will acknoledge his feelings and offer to help and then send him back to his cage, i mean cave. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

The "stinking thinking" of Codependency causes us to have a dysfunctional relationship with ourselves and others. These are some traits of that stinking thinking:

1. Black and White Thinking:
The disease comes from an absolute black and white, right/wrong, always and never perspective. "I will always be alone." "I never get a break." Any negative thing that happens gets turned into a sweeping generality.

2. Negative Focus:
The disease always wants to focus on the half of the glass that is empty and lament, rather than be grateful for what we have. Even if the glass is 7/8 ths full the disease can find some negative to focus on. (On the other extreme are some people who focus only on the good as a way of denying their feelings.)

3. Magical Thinking:
Mind reading, fortune telling, assuming - we think we can read other peoples minds and feelings, or foretell the future, and then act as if what we assume is the reality. We often create self-fulfilling prophecies this way.

4. Starring in the Soap Opera:
Blowing things out of proportion, playing the "King or Queen of tragedy." Some of us are addicted to "Trauma Dramas"and want the excitement and intensity of dramatic scenes while others of us are terrified of conflict. It is quite common in codependent relationships to have one person who is over-indulgent and dramatic emotionally coupled with someone who wants to avoid conflict and emotions at all costs.

5. Self-Discount:
Inability to receive, or to admit to our own positive qualities or accomplishments. When someone gives us a compliment we minimize it ("Oh it was nothing"), make a joke out of it, or just ignore the compliment by changing the subject or turning the compliment back on the other person.

6. Emotional Reasoning:
Reasoning from feelings. "I feel like a failure therefore I am a failure." Believing that what we feel is who we are without separating the inner child's feelings about what happened a long time ago from the adults feelings in the now.

7. Shoulds:
"Shoulds," "must," "ought to," and "have to" come from a parent or authority figure. "Should" means "I don't want to but they are making me." Adults don't have shoulds - adults have choices.

8. Self-Labeling:
Identifying with our shortcomings and mistakes, with our human imperfection, and calling ourself names like "stupid," "loser," "jerk," or "fool" instead of accepting our humanity and learning from any mistakes or shortcomings.

9. Personalizing and Blame:
Blaming yourself for something you weren't entirely responsible for, or for how someone else feels. Conversely, you may blame other people, external events, or fate, while overlooking how your own attitudes and behavior may have contributed to a problem.
As children we learned to blame others to keep from feeling the shame of being blamed.

As adults we swing between blaming and self-blame - neither is the Truth. The answers lie in the gray area, in 2 through 9, not in the extremes.

Adapted by Robert Burney from material whose original source is unknown.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Rules for Being Human
1. You will receive a body.
You may like or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around.
2. You will learn lessons.
You are enrolled in a full time informal school called life. Each day in this school you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think them irrelevant and stupid.
3. There are no mistakes, only lessons.
Growth is a process of trial and error experimentation. The "failed" experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiment that ultimately "works."
4. A lesson is repeated until learned.
A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can go on to the next lesson.
5. Learning lessons does not end.
There is not part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive, there are lessons to be learned.
6. "There" is no better than "here".
When your "there" has become a "here", you will simply obtain another "there" that will, again, look better than "here".
7. Others are merely mirrors for you.
You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something you love or hate about yourself.
8. What you make of your life is up to you.
You have all the tools and resources you need, what you do with them is up to you. The choice is yours.
9. Your answers lie inside you.
The answers to life's questions lie inside you. All you need to do is look, listen, and trust.
10. You will forget all this!
By Cherie Carter-Scott, Ph.D. A handout she created 25 years ago that circulated widely and anonymously until recently when she published If Life is a Game These are the Rules


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Risking
To laugh is to risk appearing the fool.
To weep is to risk appearing sentimental.

To reach out for another is to risk involvement.

To expose your feelings is to risk exposing your true self.

To place your ideas, your dreams before a crowd is to risk.

To Love is to risk not being loved in return.

To live is to risk dying.

To hope it to risk despair.

To try it to risk failure.

But, risks must be taken because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing at all.

The person who risks nothing still does not avoid suffering and sorrow because suffering and sorrow are an unavoidable part of life.

What they avoid by not taking risks it the opportunity to learn, feel, change, grow, Love, live.

Chained by their certitudes, they are a slave. The have forfeited their freedom.

Only a person who risks is free.

Original Source Unknown

Out:

You're funny. How about sending him back to his spaceship? Because also a lot of what he may say to you is typical WH fogese BULL CRAP..defined as meaningless rationalizations for having an A....

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS for a WH...

Part of the WH script..for my FWH, too..I was the CAUSE of ALL of his UNHAPPINESS and his PROBLEMS...The OW was the SOLUTION..his soulmate..if only he had met her first, he would have been happier..BLAH..BLAH..BLAH...

Thanks Pep for the inspiration. We all need those to get through this.

Mimi thanks for reminding me that all of his blah is part of the script. That makes it seem so much easier to handle. It is almost comical sometimes when he says something to me and I knew he would say it because MB showed me the script! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank heavens for MB

Getting nervous. Have not heard from WH yet. Just after 9 pm here. Guess I will get in bed a little early. Got to get to sleep.

thanks for all the advice today.

Ok, WH returned home last night after talk with mom and a stop for a few beers around 11pm. I was asleep but was woken up as he prepared to come to bed.

I asked him if everything went ok, he said yes. I went back to sleep.

At 2am he turned the tv on, because he could not sleep. I woke up and asked him if he was having a hard time sleeping and he said yes. He made small talk. I returned small talk and went back to sleep.

He tossed and turned all night. We made small talk this morning and I went to work. He said he was too tired and went back to bed and that he was not going in to work.

I got to work and had email from MIL saying that there was nothing to report. That he had said basically everything I had already told her about him blaming me for everything. She suggested that maybe seperation was what he needed to show him how much he was going to lose.

Needless to say, I was somewhat disappointed in the results of the talk.

I just got a call from our minister who said that he and WH just finished lunch. He said he and WH were talking about problems. WH was dancing around sitch and minister finally just starting asking the hard questions. WH admitted everything and minister said that he was here as his brother to walk him through the steps to recovery. He told me that he was about to email WH with things he wanted WH to do as a start.

I feel more positive about this conversation, but worried the WH is going to want to strangle me for all the people I have had coming to talk with him.

Oh well, I have his best interest in mind.

Just worried that he is going to try and spring the seperation on me this weekend.

Need to get my rebutle ready, so that I can be calm and prepared.