If you know any of my story you know I have done every stinking little thing wrong since D Day. LOL

I want to make sure that as we move forward I do something right.

One of the things that bothers me sooooooo much is some of the things my FWW did for the OM.

Is it normal to think if she did that for the OM she should do more for me? Just an example if a WW goes out and buys the OP a nice piece of jewlery on a whim is it wrong to think, hope or expect they would do that for you?

I can't stand to hear it didn't mean anything and he didn't mean anything. I keep thinking if it didn't mean anything and he didn't mean anything then why could you do something like that for him but not me.

In my case I am haunted by the fact my FWW got her belly button pierced for the OM. When I asked her to get a tattoo for me she told me no. The following day I asked why and she said "I know you only asked me to do it because I got my belly button pierced for him."

Now I am two and a half years since D Day and to be honest and blunt I can not think of one thing that my FWW has done as significant as that for me.

Am I wrong to think that way. When I married my FWW one of the main reasons I loved her is I had this feeling that there was never another man that she treated better then me. I had this feeling that I could ask her to do things that she would do for me that she would never do for another man. I don't feel that way anymore and quite frankly it is eating me up inside.

Did you tell her this?

Yes I did and yes I have.

Here is the conversation.

Me: You know it one of the things that hurts me so much is I know the things you did for the OM. Whenever I ask you to do something for me you tell me no.

Her: You don't see anything I do and no matter what I do you are not going to see it.

Me: I do notice what you do and that is why I am still with you. Understand that some of the things you did for him were unbelievable to me and I can't believe you won't do something that big for me.

Her: Two responses possible. We have been together for 12 years of course I don't things are different for us.(that one sucks) or you just don't notice the good things I do.

Me: Ok in all fairness that may be true let me know what you have done that I haven't noticed.

Her: I am not going to do that.

Me: Ok I noticed you bought me a card. You cooked me dinner. You do the laundry. basically household and basic chores. What have you done that really shows me you are willing to go out of your way for me.

Her: Fine why don't you just leave me if I am not living up to your expectations.

Me: You know I don't know why that has to be the solution. Think about it this way. If we did get a D and you decided to move on. When you met another man someday do you think he would expect for you to do things for him besides cooking and cleaning? Would you go out of your way to win him over if he was important to you? I think you would. Why shouldn't I expect what you gave the OM and what you would probably give someone else.

Her: Fine I will what do you want me to do?

Me: It would be nice if you....

Her: Think of something else because I am not going to do that.

Well, she did come back to you didn't she? What you should expect kind of depends on who you're married to.

I guess we all have trouble with the realization that our spouses were lusting over someone else, anxiously driving to meet them and ripping eachother's clothes off or whatever. Them giddy with the thought of being with their lover with never a thought for you...

She did that stuff for him because of "romance." She doesn't see you that way at all for some reason. Is it partly because you're not romantic? Even if you are, perception is reality. My wife perceived me as a non-romantic until her family and friends reeled off a list of the romantic things I had done for her. She just couldn't see me that way because I am a technical/analytic person most of the time.

Really all you can expect, and my only requirements, are faithfulness and amiability. Beyond that, it's an individual game.

Thanks for directing my to this thread. All I can saw is wow... you're me.

My wife got her belly pierced AND a tattoo for the OM. Neither of which I find attractive. She has removed the ring. Nothing we can do about her tattoo.

I found out about all the sexual experiments she had with the OM. None of which she wants to experience with me. She just wants the same o' regular married-couple sex. She's convinced I only want it because they did. This may be partially true.. but then again.. I'd genuinely like some of the wild stuff they had.... affair or no affair.

I compare (in my mind) our relationship with her affairs and drives me crazy for hours at a time. I wish she'd just "get it" and go above and beyond for me.

You know, I see some big problems in constantly comparing her putrid relationship with the OM with yours. You are taking a FANTASY and using it as a point of comparison. That is not a legitimate comparison. As you can see with your own eyes, the fantasy FAILED. The OM LOST. So why in the world would you want to emulate a FAILED SLEAZY AFFAIR? Two pigs rutting in the pig pen should not be your benchmark!

He might have got a tattoo in his honor, but guess what you got? YOUR WIFE. You got the woman with the tattoo, not him!

She is not in that fantasy anymore; not in the fog. She is in a REAL, LASTING marriage with you. So when you demand that she meet unrealistic expectations to meet some fantasy, she is going to feel put down.

Instead of looking at a sleazy affair as your benchmark, [that was about as romantic as 2 pigs rutting in the pig pen - wow, what a benchmark!] why not look at the good she does NOW and show her appreciation and gratitude for what you get from her now?

She does do good things for you and will be encouraged to do more if you notice and encourage them. But if you constantly ignore the things she does and whine that it is not MORE, she is going to get ticked off and give up.

If you try and change your focus, I promise you that your ATTITUDE will change. And that attitude change will be much more attractive than a man who is demanding and needy.

oh, by the way, WS often do weird stuff/make weird choices with the OP.

My FWW is an attractive, college-educated, wonderful mother with a good family life all the way around. She somehow convinced herself that her soulmate was a chain-smoking (she hates that!), beer bellied, uneducated, ex-con (5 years in the pen for battery!) whose vocabulary was about 50% the f-word. He sent her Ozzy lyrics (nothing against Ozzy) and she thought he was a freaking poet!

Yes, then she ran off and had unprotected sex with him! Then had it with me afterwards, potentially exposing me to all sorts of diseases!

My stepmom and her mom cried and shook their heads when they found out about this- they couldn't believe it. She was a true alien. No consideration for me, the kids, friends, family, or the future- only blind love for a complete waste of life. (One doctor who knew him said: "If he really does have a bleeding aneurysm there is a just God.")

Sorry for the rant, just an illustration of how crazy and alien they get. She knows all this, and does not want to revisit it because she is embarrassed.

Ok everyone so far thank you.

I did not win out over the OM. She did not leave him because of me. She could not continue her A when she came home from her vacation. They were 3,000 miles away from each other. She called a divorce attorney and found out the only way to get out is to kidnap the kids and hope I didn't fight it. She knew I would.

She did not do it for romance. His idea of romance was buying some beer for her. Heck most of the dates I paid for because he was a 32 year old loser living in a basement apartment. As a matter of fact when my family found out they kicked her out of their home. The basement apartment he rented from my family. He would not even help her get her stuff out of the house. She called him a day later to appologize to him for putting him in such an awkward position. She didn't call him to rip him a new one for not helping her get out of the situation.

I am not comparing my realtionship with the affair. I know I had better then that. I know I am better then him. I have always been romantic. Candlelit baths, massages, little gifts, big gifts. Her friends have always been envious of her. Her words not mine.

My mind keeps wondering how she could do something so significant for him and not me. I am not talking about the sex.

I am talking about conscious decesions she made for him but tells me I shouldn't expect.

The reason she planned the trip in the first place was to go to her friends wedding. She told me so many times that there is no way she was going to miss that wedding. She spent that evening in a basement apartment not a wedding.

I want to move on but these thoughts keep coming back to me.

The reason they are back today is that over the weekend we didn't have the kids. I took her to diner then the movies. When we got home candle lit bath and a massage. Not to be graphic but when she rolled over I was massaging her belly and I notice the scar from the bellybutton ring. I fought it off but then today it hit me hard.

yearsofhurt, did you read my post? I responded to the conversation you posted and you just posted the same thing again.

You very much are comparing your relationship to the affair. And I will just reiterate that it is false comparison. You can't compare a fantasy to a real marriage.

And you did win, as you can see, she is not with the OM. That was an unworkable relationship because it ws based on a fantasy. And the fantasy evaporated.

Melody,

Thank you. Maybe I just uncovered something I have never really dealt with before. I do not feel like I won. My FWW had no choice but to come back to me. I do not know what would have happened if he lived around us.

I was lucky in a sense that it happened so far away. My FWW would never leave her children and in leaving me she would leave the children.

BTW my wife is a very generous person with others not just the OM. She is just not that generous to me.

In what category would you place your wife:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Did you read this thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

melody

You are great. I read this post and the section regarding this last week.

I think my FWW is between a freeloader and a renter. Little of both. More toward the renter side.

I want to say I think my FWW is a wonderful person. People always tell her she is. So let me take the OM out of this for a minute.

We have a neighbor that needed help. My FWW would spend hours helping this person and going out of her way to do it knowing this neighbor could not return the favor. Most of her relationships are one sided like that. I could tell you about every friend she has she does more for and is very considerate.

It is just not like that with me.

Usually when she is going out of her way for them or being considerate it meant less time to focus on us.

Now I want to or need to see in our relationship that she can do these things for me.

My FWW is definately a taker in our relationship but a giver in everyother relationship including the one with the OM.

Any other opinions out there?

Years,

Read the other thread closely. Everybody is part giver and part taker. I'll oversimplify, but IMHO when one is a renter, they measure the fairness of what they give or have given versus what they take or have taken (or been given).

Your FWW is a renter, and feels that things are imbalanced between how much she gave in the M and how much she took. You may not feel that way, but she does.

When you ask how they can do that with OP, because they are both in pure giver mode (or at least see the other party as giving).

Probably like when you and FWW first met, you did not buy her flowers and stop to consider whether she got you anything. You just bought the flowers cause you thought it would make her happy. You just gave. Its nice, but not sustainable.

I think many people don't realize that they are getting something they need during the A and they are giving (and giving up) something in exchange. Instead they chalk it up to being in love, because it feels so good to have that thing that they have been doing without. (Be it conversation, affection, admiration, etc.)

Also, 100% agree with Mel, you can't compare your M to the A.

Ok so you are right about the renter part. I know my W felt like she was giving more then she was getting. This was definately a perceived perception.

She wanted to move back to her homestate. We could not afford the move nor did I think it was the best thing for the entire family. As a matter of fact the move was only good for her. Not an opinion but a fact. For me I have arthritis, bad knees and a bad back. She wanted to move back east where the whether is obviously cold.

Now that is when she became a taker from that day forward. She basically felt like because she was giving that up she never had to give anything else up.

That in a nutshell is what she did not get out of our relationship. So that issue is still there I guess. She wasn't missing conversation, love or affection from me. As a matter of fact I gave way too much to try to make her happy. We went to MC over this issue and he told her she needed to stop acting like this is your reason for not treating your husband well. He told her if she kept punshing me for not moving back I would probably have an affair.

If you read further in my post I took the OM out and said she acts like that in all of her relationships not just ours.

I guess as I type this I am understanding maybe the issue of not moving back will never be gone. If she thinks that because I won't do that she doesn't have to give back because she is not getting what she wants.

I believe the renter mentality took over then.